Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

[JSngry]

Again, I don't see the phrase "it's their feeling that..." as in anyway speculative. It is their feeling, not "probably" their feeling, or "I suspect their feeling is" or I've heard that their feeling is" or anything like that. It is their feeling. That's not ambiguous.

Again, as far as how current that "is" is, I can't say, because he doesn't. Perhaps he tried, failed and gave up. Or maybe he had another crack at it six months ago. Hell if I know. That's ambiguous, at best.

[Scott Dolan]

Alright, I'll concede the point. 

The rest stands, though. I seriously doubt Mr. Cuscuna has the slightest interest in pursuing the point. Hey, fair enough, right? 

Sometimes you reach a point in your life/career where you just say, "fuck you. This is the best buggywhip in the business. Buy it, or don't. But I ain't interested in making no goddamn spark plugs." 

Rest in peace. You've earned it. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[JSngry]

My hunch is that he had a hunger for it at one time, that it didn't go well, and then he figured, hey, by the time this is doable, I'll be too old, so oh well, I tried.

Which is I'd really like to know what if any line of succession there is for this company, or if their even is one. As well as where that 50% ownership by Blue Note stands today.

IIf Mosiac folds, how does it fold on paper? And if it floats, who's gonna make sure there's water in the lake?

[WarpedOrb]

No I wasn't thinking of DRM; I was thinking of all the ways digital can be controlled, directly or indirectly now and in the future in ways that can't be envisioned at the present. A digital entity can be "captured", monitored, and controlled in many ways. It's all about control. I don't necessarily have a preference in sound quality either in the sense that I enjoy music on all the formats.

Look at self-driving cars. Once they are ubiquitous human drivers will slowing be pushed off the road - I have a feeling you call that progress  Even now we've seen that a modern car can be located and turned off by law-enforcement. The digital age has meant many good things, but it's also been a slow erosion of personal freedoms and an increased ability of those in power to control populations. In an ideal world that would not be a concern, but this world ain't that.

I'm no conspiracy nut, but I think perhaps you're naive. But I'll allow I misunderstand a good deal of things. Thanks for putting it so nicely.

edit: sorry for stepping on toes by going way off-topic. I'll leave it there. Heck who cares what I think the future is going where it will. And I'll go there too one way or another. I just shake my head at folks who go all-in on a digital library and get rid of everything they collected (and I know a few). I'm heartened that vinyl is having a resurgence at least even though I don't collect vinyl in a big way. Peace.

Edited May 10, 2017 by WarpedOrb

[David Ayers]

Downloads - how quaint. Just remind me, were they before or after cassette? I get so confused about 20th century models of music 'ownership'.

 

Seriously, since dozens of mosaics are already on streaming and download services, this is what the owners of that material already do. During the life of this thread I have streamed through much of the Hines, Threadgill and Rivers. Cuscuna was describing what already happens. 

 

 

[sidewinder]

Streaming is all very well - until the provider ups sticks and pulls the plug..

[GA Russell]

2 hours ago, sidewinder said:

Streaming is all very well - until the provider ups sticks and pulls the plug..

Exactly right.

[David Ayers]

I'm guessing if you guys entered Miss World you'd argue for world peace. Am I right?

 

[Clunky]

3 hours ago, GA Russell said:

Exactly right.

And no liner notes, personnel , recording dates etc. Even if a PDF is made available ( as with the Savory collection ) it's still a world of difference compared to having something physically in your hand.

I've no doubt the technology will mature and improve but for now round discs of shellac, vinyl or silvered disc rule, ok.

[Daniel A]

Hi folks!

I guess I can't really envision the risk of "going digital" leading to total surveillance of my music listening. I agree with those who look upon a downloads more or less as antiquated as compact discs. They just represent two different means of storing a data file, of which the CD is easily the least durable. A cload storage solution is infinitely less susceptible to data loss than a layer of aluminium on a plastic disc.

Now, this distinction is partly becoming obsolete as streaming has all but replaced legal downloading, except for niche markets like hi-resolution files. There will always be artists and albums, especially for a jazz fan, not available on many or any streaming services. To the extent that LP, CD, reel-to-reel playback and so on is not feasible, we're left to transfer our outdated media to some suitable digital platform on our own. Since there's now a royalty mechanism for YouTube (although I don't know how well it works) there may be some collective effort (compare to discogs.com) where we could all upload our private transfers of OOP LP:s and whatnot to a big cloud from which everything can be streamed. If the title is the digital equivalent of "in print", the "offical" version is streamed and appropriate lincence fees are being paid. If the title is not officially available some kind of arbitrary royalty/licence mechanism will be used. I'm not saying this is better for the artists, better for the industry or even better for the consumers compared to the "old" model, but it's a possible development.

It seems that the LP cover/CD booklet is a big factor for old-school music listerners (like myself), just like there's still a market for printed magazines. I expect this to change. There will be functional and inexpensive digital solutions for displaying text and pictures. The annual production of paper today exceeds 400 million tonnes, which doesn't seem like a sustainable use of natural resources.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Daniel A
sp

[Scott Dolan]

5 hours ago, David Ayers said:

I'm guessing if you guys entered Miss World you'd argue for world peace. Am I right?

 

 

That genuinely made me laugh out loud! 

[ElginThompson]

17 hours ago, JSngry said:

My Jamal set arrived today. Looking forward to really taking my time with it. Certainly not music to be digested in large quatities in a concentrated time span,

 

Yes, the Jamal set is best enjoyed with a few cocktails and an easy chair. 

[JSngry]

 

7 hours ago, David Ayers said:

I'm guessing if you guys entered Miss World you'd argue for world peace. Am I right?

What kind of entering are we talking about here?

[David Ayers]

Hold the door! Hold the door! Hold the door!

[Scott Dolan]

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

It seems that the LP cover/CD booklet is a big factor for old-school music listerners (like myself), just like there's still a market for printed magazines. I expect this to change. There will be functional and inexpensive digital solutions for displaying text and pictures. The annual production of paper today exceeds 400 million tonnes, which doesn't seem like a sustainable use of natural resources.

iTunes is starting to offer booklets/liner notes with some of their releases, but I know you're referring to streaming. 

That said, I'd love to see a company like the one that made the Shazam! app do something similar for streaming services. Let's say you're streaming something and you pull out your phone/tablet, it recognizes the album you're listening to and up pops the "CD" booklet, and possibly other sources of information. It shouldn't be terribly difficult to do, although I suppose there may be licensing issues that would have to be hammered out beforehand. 

OH! And welcome back! Haven't seen you around lately. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[BFrank]

The Woody Shaw Muse box arrived today. Looks great, but I never noticed this session before:
(A) Woody Shaw, tp; Joe Henderson, ts; Larry Young, p; Ron Carter, b; Joe Chambers, d. - Van Gelder Studio, December 1965

Just a month after Larry Young's great "Unity" album on BN!

[Scott Dolan]

Jealous! 

I still haven't received a shipping number for the Benedetti set. I'm hoping it ships by the end of the week. 

[Hardbopjazz]

I ordered  Louis Armstrong
The Columbia and RCA Victor Live Recordings of Louis Armstrong and the All Stars (#257) 

I had the Benedetti set but it got water logged from hurricane Sandy 4 years ago. I am think of getting a new copy. 

[Dave Garrett]

On 5/9/2017 at 5:33 PM, lipi said:

Cuscuna's argument makes no sense--it didn't make sense ten pages ago (or was it in the deleted thread?), and it does not make sense now.

"The majors will never give us rights to downloads. It's their feeling that they can take a Mosaic set and dump the CDs into iTunes and put up the downloads for themselves. As long as they don't use the Mosaic name or box it like the Mosaic, they can do whatever they want—it's their material."

There is no difference between Mosaic's creating a CD set and Mosaic's creating a downloadable set when it comes to the label's being able to take it all and dump it into iTunes/Amazon/Bandcamp/... after. The same mechanism that protects the label's interests right now (limited number of sales and limited time of sale) can be used for downloadable content.

If the labels had any plans to release their back catalogue digitally imminently, then they'd have a reason to not grant the rights to a third party like Mosaic, but absolutely nothing points in that direction.

I don't have any problem following Cuscuna's argument. Not sure what doesn't make sense - without getting into the speculation as to whether Mosaic has or has not had discussions with the major labels about Mosaic doing downloads, it certainly wouldn't be unheard of for the labels to license music for CD or LP release only, and refuse to extend that license agreement to digital downloads. They may think they will do their own digital releases of catalog material eventually, or they may think they might get more money for licensing downloads at some point in the future. 

I see comments online all the time where someone is scratching their head over the fact that a big record company or film studio refuses to either release a specific music or film catalog title or license it to someone eager to do so, because it would obviously be almost like collecting free money for the record company/studio in question. They don't have to have an imminent strategy to monetize their own catalog titles themselves in order to refuse licensing agreements. Sometimes it's corporate policy, like Warner, who almost never license any of their catalog film properties to third-party companies like Criterion. And sometimes it's difficult to get anyone who can greenlight such licensing agreements interested unless there's a substantial amount of money involved. 

[xybert]

1 hour ago, Dave Garrett said:

I don't have any problem following Cuscuna's argument. Not sure what doesn't make sense - without getting into the speculation as to whether Mosaic has or has not had discussions with the major labels about Mosaic doing downloads, it certainly wouldn't be unheard of for the labels to license music for CD or LP release only, and refuse to extend that license agreement to digital downloads. They may think they will do their own digital releases of catalog material eventually, or they may think they might get more money for licensing downloads at some point in the future. 

I see comments online all the time where someone is scratching their head over the fact that a big record company or film studio refuses to either release a specific music or film catalog title or license it to someone eager to do so, because it would obviously be almost like collecting free money for the record company/studio in question. They don't have to have an imminent strategy to monetize their own catalog titles themselves in order to refuse licensing agreements. Sometimes it's corporate policy, like Warner, who almost never license any of their catalog film properties to third-party companies like Criterion. And sometimes it's difficult to get anyone who can greenlight such licensing agreements interested unless there's a substantial amount of money involved. 

Yup. It would probably cost the rights holders more money to have somebody spend time on it than what they would make from it.

[J.A.W.]

Hesitated, but decided to post this: Scott Wenzel just told me the James P. Johnson set will be reprinted, but he couldn't say yet when. The Clifford Jordan is still a "maybe". 

Edited May 11, 2017 by J.A.W.

[crisp]

Thanks for that. Great news.

[mjzee]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

Hesitated, but decided to post this: Scott Wenzel just told me the James P. Johnson set will be reprinted, but he couldn't say yet when. The Clifford Jordan is still a "maybe". 

No downloads???    (Sorry, I couldn't resist!  Not directed at you, J.A.W.)

[alonwa]

1 hour ago, J.A.W. said:

Hesitated, but decided to post this: Scott Wenzel just told me the James P. Johnson set will be reprinted, but he couldn't say yet when. The Clifford Jordan is still a "maybe". 

Hope they do indeed reprint the Clifford Jordan, as I'll buy it (from Jazz Messengers, though) if they do

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, mjzee said:

No downloads???    (Sorry, I couldn't resist!  Not directed at you, J.A.W.)

I'm actually wondering when the fetishists and hipsters will be clamoring for their very own Edison Phonograph and wax cylinders.