Hey Kids, Have You Heard The News? MOSAIC's IN TROUBLE!!!

[JSngry]

Apparently the person who started the thread detailing the perilous state of EVERYBODY'S favorite old-fart retro-technology comprehensive jazz reissue empire did not like that the thread had begun to include a sub-current of a conversation about streaming, downloading, and other things, and deleted it.

But just so you continue to know, apparently Mosiac's in trouble and we need to buy whatever we want that they have now, because the OP was told directly by Scott that the end is near, although they're going to fight on.

Whatever else, I have confirmed with Moderator Larry that the deletion of the thread in question was not another one of his accidents, so y'all don't EVEN go there, ok?

[AllenLowe]

and now my deep words of wisdom are lost to the ages......

[JSngry]

Shoulda wrote it down with an ink pen and a Big Chief.

[ghost of miles]

I thought only moderators could delete threads these days?  Or did the thread-starter in question still have moderator status?

[John Tapscott]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Apparently the person who started the thread detailing the perilous state of EVERYBODY'S favorite old-fart retro-technology comprehensive jazz reissue empire did not like that the thread had begun to include a sub-current of a conversation about streaming, downloading, and other things, and deleted it.

But just so you continue to know, apparently Mosiac's in trouble and we need to buy whatever we want that they have now, because the OP was told directly by Scott that the end is near, although they're going to fight on.

Whatever else, I have confirmed with Moderator Larry that the deletion of the thread in question was not another one of his accidents, so y'all don't EVEN go there, ok?

I am going to buy a big set in the near future, but if and when the end comes I hope they'll give us at least enough notice so we can get our very last orders in. Hope we don't log in some morning and find it's all gone overnight. Guess it will depend on what the creditors want to do.    

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

and now my deep words of wisdom are lost to the ages......

And my post replying to your last post, which never saw the pixelated light of day. 

You brought up an excellent point about "seeing" the music before you hear it, and when I get a minute I'll try to recreate my reply. 

[Dan Gould]

Well JAW did complain, mid-thread, about the drift of the conversation. 

What his problem is I won't hazard a guess but it's not very neighborly of someone who mentioned how he doesn't post here anymore, but ... and then delete the thread mid-discussion.

Not cool, and its seriously colored my attitude about him.

 

[JSngry]

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

I thought only moderators could delete threads these days?  Or did the thread-starter in question still have moderator status?

An OP can always delete their own thread, by deleting the opening post. Otherwise, thread deletion capacity lies solely with moderators.

1 hour ago, John Tapscott said:

I am going to buy a big set in the near future, but if and when the end comes I hope they'll give us at least enough notice so we can get our very last orders in. Hope we don't log in some morning and find it's all gone overnight. Guess it will depend on what the creditors want to do.    

Are you old enough to remember Red Trumpet? That was a BIG drag.

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, Dan Gould said:

Well JAW did complain, mid-thread, about the drift of the conversation. 

What his problem is I won't hazard a guess but it's not very neighborly of someone who mentioned how he doesn't post here anymore, but ... and then delete the thread mid-discussion.

Not cool, and its seriously colored my attitude about him.

 

+1  

[mikeweil]

I get the idea for the deletion -  the thread went so much astray that the main point was lost.

Now that all concerned got the news, we can take action.

Edited May 1, 2017 by mikeweil

[clifford_thornton]

have my eye on a couple; it'll be sad when they go but it was a great run. Hope we're given notice indeed.

[JSngry]

"All concerned"? "take action"?

I do not understand. Some potentially interested parties check the board somewhat irregularly. With the thread deleted, these readers would not "get the news", at least not here, and I don't know who all Scott has been talking to. The whole thing is really, really niche-y, even in the best of times.

So consider this a/the "replacement thread" to keep the news visible.

Oh, and if every thread-drifted thread go deleted off the board, we'd have, like, what, one or two threads left?

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Apparently the person who started the thread detailing the perilous state of EVERYBODY'S favorite old-fart retro-technology comprehensive jazz reissue empire did not like that the thread had begun to include a sub-current of a conversation about streaming, downloading, and other things, and deleted it.

I'll never understand why some feel that we're not allowed to walk and chew gum at the same time. 

That said, before J.A.W. deleted the previous thread Allen had mentioned that he's looking at the physical vs digital download argument more from a historian's perspective. That he wanted listeners to be able to walk into a room and "see" the music before they hear it. Album art, the artists, likely liner notes as well. And that he felt that he was likely in a shrinking minority that does feel that way. This is a very bad paraphrasing of what he posted, but I replied something like this: 

 

I completely get that perspective. I think for folks like most (if not all) of us here, seeing those album covers, reading the liner notes...it was our only connection to those artists. Sure, we had libraries, but there was no guarantee that you'd find something about the particular artist you were looking for information on. So in a sense, those album covers and liner notes WERE our World Wide Web. They were primarily, if not entirely, our source for information and the further sense of connection that we felt. We couldn't foresee a world where so much of that information would be available at our fingertips, whether at home, having dinner in a restaurant, or walking through the park. We're conditioned to hold those things in the highest regard.

But, these days people are connecting with, and learning more and more information about their favorite artists through blogs, artist websites, and social media. In many ways, they likely feel an even stronger sense of connection than we ever did. It's just that they don't view it as the precious commodity that we did. But if they choose to, they're still "seeing" the music before they hear it. Just in different ways than we're accustomed to. 

[erwbol]

Very disappointing a non-moderator can have so much authority over other people's posts with the current board software.

This is not for J.A.W. to decide.

[paul secor]

It's been established that there won't/can't be downloading at Mosaic, so why all of the discussion about it? If people want to discuss downloading, there are other threads in which to do it. It's of no relevance on this one.

 

[Scott Dolan]

54 minutes ago, paul secor said:

It's been established that there won't/can't be downloading at Mosaic, so why all of the discussion about it? If people want to discuss downloading, there are other threads in which to do it. It's of no relevance on this one.

 

What's been established is that their current licensing agreements do not allow for it. But the discussion is indeed relevant because it's what record company survival is based on in this current day and age. 

I don't know why any non-linear discussion pertaining to problems/solutions that are a factor in the potential demise of Mosaic are anathema in this thread. 

[AllenLowe]

thanks, Scott - and you got it right. It may be that my perspective comes from a time when we had so few of these things, when acquiring them was a lot of work and so they seemed particularly precious. The visual is still important to me; as I said, I want my students to SEE the music as well as hear it.

as a matter of fact this made me think of something which actually argues against all my prior posts about sonics - about 30 or so years ago the business of showing jazz films started up when various people (like Mark Cantor and another gentleman who was a wonderful guy, has since passed, and whose name I cannot remember, though he was really the FIRST) started acquiring and showing them. And I remember thinking, as the sound was usually lo-fi on all of these, of how watching Lester Young play - and Coleman Hawkins, and Wardell Gray and Bud Powell, and...everyone else - gave me more of a sense of their artistry and presence than any record/78/CD I had ever listened to. So....back to the visual, I guess. I know it's a very different world, but that is part of the problem. In an age where anyone who can hold a saxophone has made 20 cds (including me, yes) the art is somewhat diminished by the volume of 'product' (a word I hate for obvious reasons). To me producing a CD is like writing....well, not a novel, but a novella or short story. It is an individual, shaped, and organized work of art. Which downloads, for me at least, can never represent. Somewhere there must be a Walter Benjamin essay which address this better than I can.

 

[JSngry]

What we don't know is if Mosaic has really pushed the issue of offerings hi-res downloads to whoever it would be pushed to. Maybe there's a different level of "peer-to-peer" in the executive chain that could extend the conversation. Or maybe not.

Then again, isn't Don Was over at the Blue Note Boys getting that up and going for his home team? Maybe that's the deal - corporations are eyeing it as a future asset, so why let somebody else do it right now?

I remain skeptical that the doing hi-res downloads of Chu Berry is on anybody's Five Year Plan, but you know how corporate works, they want bullet points, not detail, so "hi-res downloads" probably means the same thing to them, be it Chu Berry or Chuck Berry.

[jlhoots]

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

An OP can always delete their own thread, by deleting the opening post. Otherwise, thread deletion capacity lies solely with moderators.

Are you old enough to remember Red Trumpet? That was a BIG drag.

Jeez - Red Trumpet, indeed I do remember, great while they lasted.

[jazzbo]

I didn't reply to the other thread.

To date I have all the items that are currently available for sale and have the next set on pre-order. So I can't really do much more other than buy other copies as gifts, which I may do this Xmas season--I have a brother and a father who could enjoy some more Mosaic.

I wonder if concentrating on vinyl releases again may be a benefit to Mosaic's business. It seems that jazz RSD releases on vinyl fly out of the stores and command big ebay prices later. . . . Perhaps a return to the Mosaic Select with 3 LPs instead of cds (or as well as cds?) would be a viable venture. I would think that the Impulse catalogue might do well this way, or . . . ?

[Scott Dolan]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

thanks, Scott - and you got it right. It may be that my perspective comes from a time when we had so few of these things, when acquiring them was a lot of work and so they seemed particularly precious. The visual is still important to me; as I said, I want my students to SEE the music as well as hear it.

as a matter of fact this made me think of something which actually argues against all my prior posts about sonics - about 30 or so years ago the business of showing jazz films started up when various people (like Mark Cantor and another gentleman who was a wonderful guy, has since passed, and whose name I cannot remember, though he was really the FIRST) started acquiring and showing them. And I remember thinking, as the sound was usually lo-fi on all of these, of how watching Lester Young play - and Coleman Hawkins, and Wardell Gray and Bud Powell, and...everyone else - gave me more of a sense of their artistry and presence than any record/78/CD I had ever listened to. So....back to the visual, I guess. I know it's a very different world, but that is part of the problem. In an age where anyone who can hold a saxophone has made 20 cds (including me, yes) the art is somewhat diminished by the volume of 'product' (a word I hate for obvious reasons). To me producing a CD is like writing....well, not a novel, but a novella or short story. It is an individual, shaped, and organized work of art. Which downloads, for me at least, can never represent. Somewhere there must be a Walter Benjamin essay which address this better than I can.

 

It's the mysterious nature, right? I mean, you can even compare it to your local DJ that you'd hear on the radio everyday. He/she essentially became an important part of your daily life. But then you'd think, "I wonder what that person looks like?" Not the best analogy, but the Jazz movies thing works in a similar fashion. I remember the first time I heard Charlie Parker speak in a video I saw many moons ago. On the outside I'm thinking, "hey cool, that's Charlie Parker. Now I know what his voice sounded like". But in a small corner of the back of my mind I was excitedly shouting, "HOLY FUCK! THAT'S CHARLIE FUCKING PARKER!! AND HE'S ACTUALLY SPEAKING!!!" 

It's cool. It's another brick in the wall, so to speak. One more puzzle piece in its place. I remember how thrilled I was seeing Eric Dolphy playing for the very first time. And no, the sonic quality meant nothing to me in that moment. I was seeing a hero. In action! So now when I listen to his music, I can see him playing it in my mind's eye. 

Either way, I now think I fully understand what your issue with downloads is. You want to present your art as a complete multimedia presentation. I can dig that. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Scott Dolan

[Larry Kart]

1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said:

What's been established is that their current licensing agreements do not allow for it. But the discussion is indeed relevant because it's what record company survival is based on in this current day and age. 

I don't know why any non-linear discussion pertaining to problems/solutions that are a factor in the potential demise of Mosaic are anathema in this thread. 

They're only anathema to the guy who started the thread and who thought that gave him ownership of it.

[neveronfriday]

I have no idea why Mosaic cancelled the "Select" series - and they probably had a good reason to do so - but, for example, the "Al Cohn, Joe Newman & Freddie Green" select (27) is still one of my favorite releases in a collection that - today - spans nearly 90 meters of CDs. There are others (I love the Mosaic Teddy Wilson box, although I'm not always too happy about the sonics), many of them, both Selects and regular boxed sets, but Mosaic select #27 has rocked my boat since 2007. I wish they would reconsider and reanimate this series.

Edited May 1, 2017 by neveronfriday

[jazztrain]

1 hour ago, AllenLowe said:

thanks, Scott - and you got it right. It may be that my perspective comes from a time when we had so few of these things, when acquiring them was a lot of work and so they seemed particularly precious. The visual is still important to me; as I said, I want my students to SEE the music as well as hear it.

as a matter of fact this made me think of something which actually argues against all my prior posts about sonics - about 30 or so years ago the business of showing jazz films started up when various people (like Mark Cantor and another gentleman who was a wonderful guy, has since passed, and whose name I cannot remember, though he was really the FIRST) started acquiring and showing them. And I remember thinking, as the sound was usually lo-fi on all of these, of how watching Lester Young play - and Coleman Hawkins, and Wardell Gray and Bud Powell, and...everyone else - gave me more of a sense of their artistry and presence than any record/78/CD I had ever listened to. So....back to the visual, I guess. I know it's a very different world, but that is part of the problem. In an age where anyone who can hold a saxophone has made 20 cds (including me, yes) the art is somewhat diminished by the volume of 'product' (a word I hate for obvious reasons). To me producing a CD is like writing....well, not a novel, but a novella or short story. It is an individual, shaped, and organized work of art. Which downloads, for me at least, can never represent. Somewhere there must be a Walter Benjamin essay which address this better than I can.

 

Allen,

I suspect the name you're trying to remember is David Chertok.  I went to a few of his presentations years ago.

Ken Crawford used to show a lot of films at the annual record bash in New Jersey.

It used to be really, really hard to see those films.  Now you can just go to YouTube and see most of them.  They're still special but much more accessible.

I share your experience of seeking out good sounding reissues.  It did take a lot of time and effort. 

[AllenLowe]

yes, Chertok, thanks. Lovely guy.