"Mingus Three" pianists

[mikeweil]

I have read somewhere that Sonny Clark replaces Hampton Hawes on I Can't Get Started. No confirmation in Lord; the Clark disco on the web mentions this, too. Is there any other confirmation for this?

My 1997 Roulette/EMI CD does not mention this, either.

[paul secor]

According to Hampton Hawes' autobiography, Raise Up Off Me, Sonny Clark "played the ending on one of the tracks because I was in the bathroom fixing again." It's possible (probable?) that Hawes' memory may have been faulty and that Clark plays on the entire tune. I don't have the record.

[Gheorghe]

I have read it Hampton Hawes´autobiography "Raise up off me", that he had to go to the bathroom because of his habit and Sonny Clark who was in the studio, did one track. Maybe this one.

Anyway , both Hawes and Clark had a habit.

[kh1958]

Charles Mingus Trio

Hampton Hawes (piano -1,3/8) Sonny Clark (piano -2) Charles Mingus (bass) Danny Richmond (drums)

NYC, July 9, 1957

1. JB888	Dizzy Moods	Jubilee JLP 1054
2. JB889	I Can't Get Started	-
3. JB890	Hamp's New Blues	-
4. JB891	Yesterdays	-
5. JB892	unknown title	unissued
6. JB893	Back Home Blues	Jubilee JLP 1054
7. JB894	Summertime	-
8. JB895	Laura	-

* Jubilee JLP 1054   Charles Mingus, Hampton Hawes, Danny Richmond - Mingus Three
= Josie JJM 3508   Charlie Mingus, Hampton Hawes, Danny Richmond - Charlie Mingus Trio

[JSngry]

Not getting started did not appear to be a problem.

[mikeweil]

Thanks all - just found the passage in Hawes' book. He says Mingus gave Clark $ 5 for his "two chords" at the end of one tune. From the playing I find it impossible to say who plays when.

[clifford_thornton]

7 hours ago, JSngry said:

Not getting started did not appear to be a problem.

yup.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

im paring down, curating my collection more and this one just got the ax, i just couldn't find a situation where i'd listen to it over a Hampton Hawes trio date on contemporary.  im sorry dog!

[JSngry]

Don't feel bad, never been a favorite of mine either.

[AllenLowe]

Jim - if you want to hear the greatness of Hawes you need to listen to his earlier 50s live recordings. They are unbelievably intense and some of my favorite recordings.  Here we go:

 

or: 

 

he is playing patterns a bit, even back then - I had a long and interesting talk with Russ Freeman about this once - but there is a rawness that he lost (he did later said that he was a 'maniac' during this period, and that his playing reflected this).

This, btw, is really where Oscar Peterson comes from, but I don't blame Hawes for that.

Edited April 14, 2017 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Oh, I know Hawes. Just saying that this particular record never really "took" with me.

I would be interested in hearing more about the interaction between Hawes & Russ Freeman, though.

[Bill Nelson]

Similar to Chewy, I also sold my copy of 'Mingus Trio'.  The music wasn't really happenin' and Jubilee's pressings are among the worst.  

[jazzbo]

I like the music myself! I've never had a vinyl pressing. The recent Warner Japan cd is my favorite version.

[Larry Kart]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:00 AM, JSngry said:

Oh, I know Hawes. Just saying that this particular record never really "took" with me.

I would be interested in hearing more about the interaction between Hawes & Russ Freeman, though.

Pretty sure that Freeman had his own thing going before Hawes was around on the scene enough to have been an influence on him, though there are similarities. Nor do I think that Russ went to school on Horace Silver, as the somewhat  similar John Williams (of the Stan Getz Quintet with Brookmeyer) probably did, though Williams and Silver probably ran across  each other quite naturally when they were in their teens in the Connecticut-Massachusetts neck of the woods.  Getting back to Freeman and Hawes, I think there may be some fairly early Freeman on record that corroborates my sense of his independent-of-Hawes development; will try to check. No doubt there must be something in the jazz past that inspired Freeman's (what might be called) "rumbly bebop" approach; my guess is that it's Bud Powell laid on top of an early fondness for boogie woogie and/or Bob Zurke.  (A mostly forgotten figure now, Zurke was widely popular when he was with the Bob Crosby Band.) And speaking of "rumbly bebop" that owes a clear debt to boogie woogie, see early Kenny Drew.) The guy who really fed on Hawes, of course, was Andre Previn, who underwent a big shift almost overnight from his prior Tatum-esque approach to a Hawes-drenched style. OTOH, Tatum-esque Previn was nothing to sneeze at IMO (see those Sunset sessions), and I've developed a somewhat guarded affection for Hawes-influenced Andre. The man I(i.e. Previn)  did have genuine instincts and skills. Also, as Allen Lowe has pointed out, Oscar Peterson took a good-sized stylistic bite out of Hawes' ass as well.

[Larry Kart]

Can't find examples of early Freeman, but both he and Hawes  (two years younger) were on the Central Avenue scene with Dexter, Howard McGhee, et al. circa 1947. Below some Bob Zurke and (below that) some early Kenny Drew with IMO a boogie-woogie underlay:
 

 

Drew (I LOVE Kenny Drew):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIWnL9wCRs

John Williams from 1955, very akin to Freeman but his own man I'm pretty sure:
 

 

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Can't find examples of early Freeman, but both he and Hawes  (two years younger) were on the Central Avenue scene with Dexter, Howard McGhee, et al. circa 1947.

 

That was what I meant about being curious to learn about the interactions between them. Not implying in nay way that one "stole" from the other, just noting that, yeah, same place, same time, same cats. But you don't hear that in conventional jazz history conversations much, and I wish we could.

[Larry Kart]

Ah, yes -- earliest Russ Freeman I know is on the 1976 Savoy double-LP "Black California" set, one April 1947 track, "Backbreaker" (which has to be from a concert because it runs 18:45)  with Al Killian, Sonny Criss, Wardell Grey, Barney Kessel, Harry Babison, and drummer Ken Kennedy. Will listen to it tonight or tomorrow and report. Should be fun.

Early Hawes (I may have some of this):
 

1947 (age 19)

Howard McGhee Quintet

Howard McGhee (trumpet) Charlie Parker (alto sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Addison Farmer (bass) Roy Porter (drums)

"Hi-De-Ho Club", Los Angeles, CA, March 9, 1947

	Dee Dee's Dance I	Spotlite (E) SPJ 107
	Dee Dee's Dance II	-

* Spotlite (E) SPJ 107; Zim ZM 1001   Various Artists - Lullaby In Rhythm

Howard McGhee Sextet

Howard McGhee (trumpet) Sonny Criss (alto sax -1,3) Teddy Edwards (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Addison Farmer (bass) Roy Porter (drums)

"Hi-De-Ho Club", Los Angeles, CA, circa March, 1947

1.	Ornithology	Jazz Showcase 5005
2.	Body And Soul	-
3.	The Man I Love	-

* Jazz Showcase 5005   Sonny Criss, Howard McGhee, Dodo Marmarosa - California Boppin'

The Bopland Boys

Howard McGhee (trumpet) Trummy Young (trombone) Sonny Criss (alto sax) Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Barney Kessel (guitar) possibly Leroy Gray (bass) Ken Kennedy (drums)

"Elks Auditorium", Los Angeles, CA, July 6, 1947

BOP3	The Hunt, Part 1 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	Bop 104; Savoy XP 8100, MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP4	The Hunt, Part 2 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	-
BOP5	The Hunt, Part 3 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	Bop 105; Savoy XP 8100, MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP6	The Hunt, Part 4 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	-
BOP7	The Hunt, Part 5 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	Bop 101; Savoy XP 8115, MG 9027, MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP8	The Hunt, Part 6 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	-
BOP9	The Hunt, Part 7 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	Bop 102; Savoy XP 8115, MG 9027, MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP10	The Hunt, Part 8 (as Rock' N' Shoals)	-

same session

 

BOP15	Bopera, Part 1 (as Disorder At The Border)	Bop 107; Savoy MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP16	Bopera, Part 2 (as Disorder At The Border)	-
BOP17	Bopera, Part 3 (as Disorder At The Border)	Bop 108; Savoy MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP18	Bopera, Part 4 (as Disorder At The Border)	-
BOP19	Bopera, Part 5 (as Disorder At The Border)	Bop 109; Savoy MG 12012, SJL 2222
BOP20	Bopera, Part 6 (as Disorder At The Border)	-
BOP21	Bopera, Part 7 (as Disorder At The Border)	Bop 110; Savoy MG 12012, SJL 2222

Howard McGhee (trumpet) Trummy Young (trombone) Sonny Criss (alto sax) Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Barney Kessel (guitar) Red Callender (bass) Roy Porter (drums)

 

BOP36	Bopland, Part 1 (as Byas-A-Drink)	Savoy 962, MG 9020, SJL 2222
BOP37	Bopland, Part 2 (as Byas-A-Drink)	-
BOP38	Bopland, Part 3 (as Byas-A-Drink)	Savoy 963, MG 9020, SJL 2222
BOP39	Bopland, Part 4 (as Byas-A-Drink)	-
BOP40	Bopland, Part 5 (as Byas-A-Drink)	Savoy 964, MG 9020, SJL 2222
BOP41	Bopland, Part 6 (as Byas-A-Drink)	-
BOP42	Jeronimo, Part 1 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	Bop 111; Regent MG 6049; Savoy SJL 2222
BOP43	Jeronimo, Part 2 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	-
BOP44	Jeronimo, Part 3 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	Bop 112; Regent MG 6049; Savoy SJL 2222
BOP45	Jeronimo, Part 4 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	-
BOP46	Jeronimo, Part 5 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	Bop 113; Regent MG 6049; Savoy SJL 2222
BOP47	Jeronimo, Part 6 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	-
BOP48	Jeronimo, Part 7 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	Bop 114; Regent MG 6049; Savoy SJL 2222
BOP49	Jeronimo, Part 8 (as Cherrykoke) (as Cherokee)	-

Howard McGhee (trumpet) Trummy Young (trombone) Sonny Criss (alto sax) Dexter Gordon (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Barney Kessel (guitar) Red Callender (bass) Roy Porter (drums)

 

BOP54	Bop After Hours, Part 1 (as After Hours Bop)	Bop 115; Savoy SJL 2211
BOP55	Bop After Hours, Part 2 (as After Hours Bop)	-
BOP56	Bop After Hours, Part 3 (as After Hours Bop)	Bop 116; Savoy SJL 2211
BOP57	Bop After Hours, Part 4 (as After Hours Bop)	-
BOP58	Bop After Hours, Part 5 (as After Hours Bop)	Bop 117; Savoy SJL 2211
BOP59	Bop After Hours, Part 6 (as After Hours Bop)	-

* Savoy MG 12012   Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray - Jazz Concert - West Coast
* Savoy SJL 2222   Wardell Gray, Dexter Gordon - The Hunt
* Regent MG 6049; Savoy MG 12196   Various Artists - Jazz Concert West Coast
* Savoy SJL 2211   Dexter Gordon - Long Tall Dexter
* Savoy MG 9027   Various Artists - Hollywood Jazz Concert, Vol. 2
* Savoy MG 9020   Various Artists - Hollywood Jazz Concert, Vol. 1
* Savoy XP 8100   Various Artists - Hollywood Jazz Session, Vol. 1
* Savoy XP 8115   Various Artists - Hollywood Jazz Session, Vol. 2
* Bop 104   Howard McGhee - The Hunt, Part 1 / Sonny Criss - The Hunt, Part 2
* Bop 105   Barney Kessel - The Hunt, Part 3 / Trummy Young - The Hunt, Part 4
* Bop 101   Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray - The Hunt, Part 5 / The Hunt, Part 6
* Bop 102   Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray - The Hunt, Part 7 / The Hunt, Part 8
* Bop 107   Trummy Young - Bopera, Part 1 / Wardell Gray - Bopera, Part 2
* Bop 108   Howard McGhee - Bopera, Part 3 / Sonny Criss - Bopera, Part 4
* Bop 109   Dexter Gordon - Bopera, Part 5 / Barney Kessel - Bopera, Part 6
* Bop 110   Hampton Hawes - Bopera, Part 7 / Wild Bill Moore - Unfinished Bopera
* Savoy 962   The Bopland Boys - Bopland, Part 1 & 2
* Savoy 963   The Bopland Boys - Bopland, Part 3 & 4
* Savoy 964   The Bopland Boys - Bopland, Part 5 & 6
* Bop 111   Trummy Young - Jeronimo, Part 1 / Barney Kessel - Jeronimo, Part 2
* Bop 112   Barney Kessel, Sonny Criss - Jeronimo, Part 3 / Sonny Criss - Jeronimo, Part 4
* Bop 113   Dexter Gordon - Jeronimo, Part 5 / Jeronimo, Part 6
* Bop 114   Dexter Gordon - Jeronimo, Part 7 / Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray - Jeronimo, Part 8
* Bop 115   Trummy Young - Bop After Hours, Part 1 / Barney Kessel - Bop After Hours, Part 2
* Bop 116   Dexter Gordon - Bop After Hours, Part 3 / Howard McGhee - Bop After Hours, Part 4
* Bop 117   Hampton Hawes - Bop After Hours, Part 5 / Sonny Criss - Bop After Hours, Part 6

Happy Johnson And His International Jive Five

George L. "Happy" Johnson (trombone) Ray Preasley (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Roger J. Alderson (bass) Chuck Thompson (drums)

Los Angeles, CA, December 9, 1947

HCO2908	Barbecued Hot Dog	Columbia 38267
HCO2909	Jack, My Jawbone's Breakin'	-
HCO2910	Eight, Skeight And Donate	Columbia 30150
HCO2911	Chicken Noodle Soup	-

* Columbia 38267   Happy Johnson - Barbecued Hot Dog / Jack, My Jawbone's Breakin'
* Columbia 30150   Happy Johnson - Eight, Skeight And Donate / Chicken Noodle Soup

1948 (age 20)

Teddy Edwards Quintet

Herbie Harper (trombone) Teddy Edwards (tenor sax) Hampton Hawes (piano) Iggy Shevack (bass) Roy Porter (drums)

Hollywood, CA, October, 1948

	Teddy's Tune	Rex 26025; Onyx ORI 212
	Wonderful Work	-
	Fairy Dance	Rex 26026; Onyx ORI 212
	It's The Talk Of The Town	-

* Onyx ORI 212   Teddy Edwards, Vivian Garry, Dodo Marmarosa - Central Avenue Breakdown, Vol. 1
* Rex 26025   Teddy Edwards - Teddy's Tune / Wonderful Work
* Rex 26026   Teddy Edwards - Fairy Dance / It's The Talk Of The Town

[Larry Kart]

Have listened to Freeman on "Backbreaker" (actually a standard bop line whose title escapes me right now) and Hawes on "Disorder at the Border" and "Byas-a-Drink." Band is essentially the same on both of these session or concert dates, with Dexter added, Howard McGhee taking the place of the recently murdered Al Killian, a different bassist, and Connie Kay taking the place of Ken Kennedy.

As a comper, Freeman is very active and rumbly, close to bashing at times, though this seems to fit the intense musical atmosphere (one has a sense that Benzadrine inhalers were in use). His solo choruses are very Powell-like but also individual -- fine flow of ideas, albeit at times piled on top of each other, considerable melodic continuity. I wouldn't say that the overall results sound as yet like the Freeman we would come to know a few years later, but he's certainly on the come. Hawes on  "Disorder at the Border" and "Byas-a-Drink" (different titles given above, and it says Roy Porter, not Connie Kay)  sounds more relaxed than Freeman, more (better?) use of space, or is the difference between them there mostly a matter of individual mood and temperament? Hawes can be quite bluesy, in a groove he will often get into over the years. By contrast with Freeman (and these are small samples, I know) my sense is that Freeman at this point is the more spontaneous player while Hawes may have worked out chunks of his solos, though what Hawes plays is good stuff and harmonically inventive at times. His sense of space includes a taste for playing figures in one register off against similar figures in another; this recalls one of Art Pepper's great gifts. (Chicken vs. egg or just happenstance?; Pepper's taste for this play among registers probably derives from similar traits in the solos of his early boss Benny Carter). As to where Freeman and Hawes come from, I certainly hear a lot of Bud Powell in Freeman -- the latter's at times hurly-burly sense of passion is particularly striking in this regard  -- along with some of the boogie-woogie underpinning I've mentioned above. With Hawes -- and he may have said this himself in interviews over the years -- my sense is that he comes more straight from Bird than from Bud, and not only because Hamp's playing often sounds more horn-like than pianistic (Freeman, by contrast, could be nothing but a pianist).

[Larry Kart]

So I took the time and trouble (no trouble at all really; it was a pleasure) to locate, listen to and comment on the earliest Russ Freeman and Hampton Hawes I could find (three readily comparable 1947 performances, in fact), But then -- as Captain Hook said after he forced Peter Pan to walk the plank in the Disney animated version of "Peter Pan" -- "No splash?"

[JSngry]

Well, thank you, that's what nobody really talks about, and you have. Most enjoyable!

[Chuck Nessa]

So, the answer is yes.

[Larry Kart]

Jim's response counts as a good splash to me.

Weird that I remembered that line from the animated "Peter Pan" after all these years.

[JSngry]

Sorry, did not mean to appear indifferent to the info, much appreciated. I've been sort of..."multi-tasking" more than usual the last few weeks, not that that's any excuse for bad manners, such as they were.

But. ok, speaking of rumbly bebop left hands...Al Haig wasn't really a rumbler, but he did make more noise with his left hand than did the Buddists of the time, yes? And Dodo, when he was out there...yeah, Dodo in California, think that's a connection? Dodo never was a really "orthodox" bebopper.

California bebop...still not fully considered in the general conversation, that's my perception. When it is, at all, it's some variant of "Central Avenue Scene", which, ok, 52nd Street as a parallel, but does anybody still think of NYC bebop in those terms these days? And really, in terms of basic geography, of what you see when you go outside, wouldn't LA engender a bit more rumbling than NYC? NYC seems more...punchy than rumbly. Just like Texas got that rambly thing.

I do find it worthy of consideration that although Russ Freeman really "came to fame" with Chet Baker, Pacific Jazz, etc, that him and Hampton Hawes were operating out of a connected origin long before that new musical/social consideration jumped up into the discussion. Connecting the dots makes everything more sensible afaic. Nobody "stealing" or anything, people just came from the same place and then walked to different places.

[mikeweil]

When considering at what time Bird and Diz were in California one must conclude that those Californians were bitten by the bebop bug early on and developped their own stylistics from then on. I always thought Hampton Hawes' phrasing was very direct and distinct and clearer than that of most bebop pianists. Don't have lstened to much early Freeman. regrettably.

[JSngry]

Cats like Sonny Criss and Teddy Edwards sounded like they were just asking to be bitten, so quickly and fully were they formed.