Help me get the Music Matters Jazz Blue Note series extended!

[LeeScoggins]

Friends,

I've started a petition to gather signatures to extend the wonderfully well-done Music Matters Blue Notes.  I would love to get your support for a dozen more titles to this exceptional series.  The petition I've started with a well-regarded petition site is here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/991/002/449/

Thanks for the support.

P.S.  Here is an article that Michael Fremer wrote about it on analogplanet.  

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/fans-demand-more-blue-notes-music-matters#cgJ3muki5OgmajM6.97

[clifford_thornton]

Would be nice if they did some other lesser-known jazz titles as well. Don't we have all the Blue Notes we need at this point?

[paul secor]

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

Would be nice if they did some other lesser-known jazz titles as well. Don't we have all the Blue Notes we need at this point?

Amen.

[jlhoots]

Is that Ron Rambach's project? I believe he's retiring.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Would be nice if they did some other lesser-known jazz titles as well. Don't we have all the Blue Notes we need at this point?

Lesser known titles most likely would not sell in the quantities needed to make their business model work. I believe they license a title for 3,500 copies but it might even be 5,000 copies. I don't know what their break even point is, but it's probably more than 1,000, which is likely the most copies they'd sell of some of the more obscure Blue Note titles. A lot of the obscure Blue Note LPs are obscure for a reason. No one bought them. And by the way, according to Michael Cuscuna, most of those old sales trends are still valid today. There are a few exceptions but in general, if it didn't sell well when it was originally issued, it won't sell well today.

To get an idea of what I mean, look at this reissue program. They released the "standard" big sellers, i.e. "Blue Train", "Soul Station", etc. Boring, right? They sold out of these "standard" titles! That's how you make money in this business. It's not by selling 600 copies of some Don Cherry LP. It's by selling out of all of your inventory.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Kevin Bresnahan

[LeeScoggins]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Would be nice if they did some other lesser-known jazz titles as well. Don't we have all the Blue Notes we need at this point?

I agree and I have talked a little with Joe Harley, one of the main guys on the MM team.  Joe definitely has a few titles in mind, including some slightly later era Blue Note stuff.  Of course, there were some lesser-known titles in the series by design.

[clifford_thornton]

Is Don Was a jazz expert?

[duaneiac]

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

Is Don Was a jazz expert?

This is 2017.  Experts in any field are no longer welcome.  "Alternate experts" are all the rage.  Make Jazz Great Again!!!!!!!!

[Kevin Bresnahan]

2 hours ago, jlhoots said:

Is that Ron Rambach's project? I believe he's retiring.

Yes, Ron was the lead guy for this series.

1 hour ago, clifford_thornton said:

Is Don Was a jazz expert?

As far as I am aware, Don Was didn't have anything to do with the Music Matters reissues. Am I missing something here?

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Is Don Was a jazz expert?

Was, Not Was.

[Dan Gould]

[Dmitry]

5 hours ago, LeeScoggins said:

 Here is an article that Michael Fremer wrote about it on analogplanet.  

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/fans-demand-more-blue-notes-music-matters#cgJ3muki5OgmajM6.97

It's not an article. It's a blurb.

I'm not signing any petitions either. If not Music Matters, then someone esle will reissue the much less commecrially popular BN albums. 

[CJ Shearn]

I've actually not heard any of these, I know they are considered the best versions, but do we really need the same titles reissued again as is the OP's sentiment?  If they made these regular reissues and allowed people just getting into the music, that'd be great, but I doubt that'll happen.   What if companies like MM went after catalogs like CTI? That would be interesting

[clifford_thornton]

3 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

As far as I am aware, Don Was didn't have anything to do with the Music Matters reissues. Am I missing something here?

it's in the blurb linked in the first post. Not that it's true...

people just getting into the music aren't likely to spend $40+ on a reissue, no? Maybe times are different and that's part of the lifestyle but... when I was first buying Blue Notes on LP and CD I took whatever I could get and only later sought out nicer versions (still have some clunky, ring-worn black note issues alas). 

I feel like there are a ton of fascinating non-BN sessions that could use audiophile treatment. Maybe some LP-era Savoy titles or the Tom Wilson sides produced for UA? Who wouldn't want a bright, crisp-sounding copy of Matador?

[LeeScoggins]

8 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Is Don Was a jazz expert?

Well not as much as the MM team and folks like Michael Cuscuna but he now runs Blue Note.

I referenced Don Was because Joe Harley related a story to me on the release of the 75th anniversary Blue Notes and that in the video Don goes on about what a great job Music Matters did.

5 hours ago, CJ Shearn said:

I've actually not heard any of these, I know they are considered the best versions, but do we really need the same titles reissued again as is the OP's sentiment?  If they made these regular reissues and allowed people just getting into the music, that'd be great, but I doubt that'll happen.   What if companies like MM went after catalogs like CTI? That would be interesting

Many of the titles that Music Matters released were titles that had not been released or infrequently released.  Some were very commercial like Somethin Else but that is needed to get a decent profit on their efforts.

5 hours ago, Dmitry said:

It's not an article. It's a blurb.

I'm not signing any petitions either. If not Music Matters, then someone esle will reissue the much less commecrially popular BN albums. 

That's a glass half full view.  MM has done these reissues extremely well even down to recreating the cover art from photo negatives.  A lot of music lovers appreciate that detail and the top quality masterings.  It's not likely that Blue Notes will be done as well as this again if only because the tapes are deteriorating.

If you like Blue Notes and don't have the big bucks to get original pressings, please consider supporting us and getting more titles of these classic performances.

4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

it's in the blurb linked in the first post. Not that it's true...

people just getting into the music aren't likely to spend $40+ on a reissue, no? Maybe times are different and that's part of the lifestyle but... when I was first buying Blue Notes on LP and CD I took whatever I could get and only later sought out nicer versions (still have some clunky, ring-worn black note issues alas). 

I feel like there are a ton of fascinating non-BN sessions that could use audiophile treatment. Maybe some LP-era Savoy titles or the Tom Wilson sides produced for UA? Who wouldn't want a bright, crisp-sounding copy of Matador?

I can relate a story about some new vinyl buyers in Atlanta.  Once they experience the sound of Music Matters at my house and few others, they saved up and got one or two and have now gone back for more, especially the more affordable 33s.  Now, I know these guys pretty well and they are young and not making much money but they did spend the cash for them because they love jazz so much.  So I do think its possible that newbies get into these if not as frequently as us collectors.  A local store has sold so many that we are inviting a couple of local jazz experts to the store one weekend to talk about the label.  Should be fun. 

[clifford_thornton]

To be fair, I haven't bought any MM reissues. But I also did most of my BN buying before MM came around, so perhaps I would've felt differently if I didn't already have many of these titles in some form or another. I also don't get the reissue collecting approach but certainly others do, so... one thing that turned me off initially was the number of complaints about shoddy craftsmanship, which may have improved some in the intervening years.

[LeeScoggins]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:48 AM, clifford_thornton said:

To be fair, I haven't bought any MM reissues. But I also did most of my BN buying before MM came around, so perhaps I would've felt differently if I didn't already have many of these titles in some form or another. I also don't get the reissue collecting approach but certainly others do, so... one thing that turned me off initially was the number of complaints about shoddy craftsmanship, which may have improved some in the intervening years.

The quality is excellent.  There were a few mumbles on the Hoffman board around the inner sleeves and then later wihen prices went up, but I don't know of anyone who has found fault in the quality of the mastering or the world-class artwork.

[LeeScoggins]

We are now at 427 signatures.  Please sign to support more Blue Note titles.

[Homefromtheforest]

On 2017-03-21 at 6:51 PM, LeeScoggins said:

The quality is excellent.  There were a few mumbles on the Hoffman board around the inner sleeves and then later wihen prices went up, but I don't know of anyone who has found fault in the quality of the mastering or the world-class artwork.

I had to return at least 3 titles(and a few of them more then once) because of noisy pressings.  

[clifford_thornton]

2 hours ago, Homefromtheforest said:

I had to return at least 3 titles(and a few of them more then once) because of noisy pressings.  

yeah, I remember that -- or clicks/scratches in the vinyl (not uncommon on new records these days, unfortunately).

[Homefromtheforest]

4 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

yeah, I remember that -- or clicks/scratches in the vinyl (not uncommon on new records these days, unfortunately).

Yes they were all isolated spots of clicks and noise; in my opinion a $40+ new record geared towards audiophiles should be perfect!  Unfortunately part of the problem is the over saturated vinyl market and the swamped pressing plants trying to keep up with orders.  That said; the 14 or so MM 33rpms that I do own sound amazing and really are the best choice for those who can't afford originals (Japanese Kings are close though).  They lack the excitement and punch of the originals and seem rolled off a bit on the high end, but they do have a rich, full and smooth sound.  

Too bad about the recent ridiculous price fluctuations on the remaining MM 33rpm stock.

[B. Clugston]

1 hour ago, Homefromtheforest said:

Yes they were all isolated spots of clicks and noise; in my opinion a $40+ new record geared towards audiophiles should be perfect!  Unfortunately part of the problem is the over saturated vinyl market and the swamped pressing plants trying to keep up with orders.  That said; the 14 or so MM 33rpms that I do own sound amazing and really are the best choice for those who can't afford originals (Japanese Kings are close though).  They lack the excitement and punch of the originals and seem rolled off a bit on the high end, but they do have a rich, full and smooth sound.  

Too bad about the recent ridiculous price fluctuations on the remaining MM 33rpm stock.

I had a dud I had to return too. Robert Hutton goes off on Music Matters here: http://robertmusic.blogspot.ca/2016/03/why-you-wont-see-music-matters-blue.html I agree with you about the sound and I'm very happy with the titles I do have. I think Out to Lunch and Soul Station in particular sound terrific.

[Dmitry]

7 hours ago, B. Clugston said:

I had a dud I had to return too. Robert Hutton goes off on Music Matters here: http://robertmusic.blogspot.ca/2016/03/why-you-wont-see-music-matters-blue.html I agree with you about the sound and I'm very happy with the titles I do have. I think Out to Lunch and Soul Station in particular sound terrific.

What a piece of work... I read his blog a couple of months back. When he stopped getting free records from MM, he started bad-mouthing them. 

8 hours ago, Homefromtheforest said:

Yes they were all isolated spots of clicks and noise; in my opinion a $40+ new record geared towards audiophiles should be perfect!  Unfortunately part of the problem is the over saturated vinyl market and the swamped pressing plants trying to keep up with orders.  That said; the 14 or so MM 33rpms that I do own sound amazing and really are the best choice for those who can't afford originals (Japanese Kings are close though).  They lack the excitement and punch of the originals and seem rolled off a bit on the high end, but they do have a rich, full and smooth sound.  

Too bad about the recent ridiculous price fluctuations on the remaining MM 33rpm stock.

The SACDs of the corresponding material should sound the same as the MM vinyl. As was disclosed by the people who worked on these reissues, both were cut from the same source, at the same time.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

48 minutes ago, Dmitry said:

The SACDs of the corresponding material should sound the same as the MM vinyl. As was disclosed by the people who worked on these reissues, both were cut from the same source, at the same time.

I have been told that the LPs and SACDs were not cut at the same time. While it is true that the SACDs were made by the same team, it was different pass on the master tape with different EQ settings. You have to EQ the master to overcome vinyl's shortcomings (the needle would jump out of the grooves if you don't sum the bass). You don't have to do that for DSD. I don't even think the two were done in the same mastering studio.

Also, not every MM LP was released on SACD, so they did not create a DSD master for every MM LP they cut.

[Dmitry]

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

I have been told that the LPs and SACDs were not cut at the same time. While it is true that the SACDs were made by the same team, it was different pass on the master tape with different EQ settings. You have to EQ the master to overcome vinyl's shortcomings (the needle would jump out of the grooves if you don't sum the bass). You don't have to do that for DSD. I don't even think the two were done in the same mastering studio.

Also, not every MM LP was released on SACD, so they did not create a DSD master for every MM LP they cut.

That's what Steve Hoffman said on his forum. That they were making masters for the sacds and the lps from the same material at the same time.

2 hours ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

Also, not every MM LP was released on SACD, so they did not create a DSD master for every MM LP they cut.

You know that for a fact?Would seem like an inexplicable  waste not to do it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Dmitry