Brad Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dan Gould said: All Floating Jazz titles are Chiaroscuro if I recall. I've probably avoided that one because of the flute references in the reviews but should probably reconsider sometime. Yes, it’s Chiaroscuro. I received an email from CD Japan a couple of months ago. I purchased this one and the Mary Lou. The price was right, only $14.75 US. I hadn’t focused on the cover but that obviously wouldn’t fly today. I’m only a few cuts in but on My Funny Valentine there is a bit of flute. Edited October 9, 2018 by Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Brad said: I hadn’t focused on the cover but that obviously wouldn’t fly today. Well, this is today, and there it is for all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulpope Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, JSngry said: Well, this is today, and there it is for all to see. If it offends, I have no issue with deleting the photo and just indicating text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Coleman Hawkins - The Bebop Years (Proper) Disc 4 - Picasso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Brad said: If it offends, I have no issue with deleting the photo and just indicating text. I don't think it was your intent to offend. I myself am not offended, because in my experience unwoke men think that that kind of thing is funny in some form or fashion, so it's expected. I think it's disgusting, but I am not offended. Disgust is just a part of life, as is being offended. But those are two different things, really, disgust and offence. I'm disgusted when I step in dog shit, but I'm not offended by the dog or it's shit. I'm not even always disgusted with myself for stepping in it, because hell, you can't see everything all the time, right? Dogs gotta shit, I gotta walk, hey. Ain't no robots in that equation, right? Now, if a woke man (or woman, or just a woke human, period) lets you know directly that it offends and/or disgusts, then by all means, proceed accordingly (whatever that means to you). That'll be between you and them, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, JSngry said: Was Frank Wess a known sex offender? If not, that's a pretty questionable choice for an album cover. I would be offended, but I guess you could make the case that he's pretending to be a bat, which would also be a surprise. Was he known to have been in a state of mental deterioration at this time? Silliness aside, who's in that band? Who says it was ever meant to insinuate something about a sex offender and make fun of it? Look at the words of the band members written inside his coat. Ain't you never seen caricatures of those greasy small-time would-be mafiosi giving unwary passers-by a glance at their ware of doubtful origin (such as watches of all sorts) hung in the same places inside their coats in an attempt to peddle their stuff? The garb matches too, in a cliché-like manner ... Silly? Yes. Off-putting? Yes, for its silliness - to me as a record buyer, for example (but that's only me). Maybe not flattering either but it must have been intentional so who are we to judge from today's vantage point? There have been FAR more shocking record covers across the board through the decades. Anyway ...AFAICS certainly no reason to obsessively project "sex" into this as a reason for offendedness. It ain't necessarily all about sex out there ... Edited October 9, 2018 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Big Beat Steve said: Who says it was ever meant to insinuate something about a sex offender and make fun of it? Look at the words of the band members written inside his coat. Ain't you never seen caricatures of those greasy small-time would-be mafiosi giving unwary passers-by a glance at their ware of doubtful origin (such as watches of all sorts) hung in the same places inside their coats in an attempt to peddle their stuff? The garb matches too, in a cliché-like manner ... Silly? Yes. Off-putting? Yes, for its silliness - to me as a record buyer, for example (but that's only me). Maybe not flattering either but it must have been intentional so who are we to judge from today's vantage point? There have been FAR more shocking record covers across the board through the decades. Anyway ...AFAICS certainly no reason to obsessively project "sex" into this as a reason for offendedness. It ain't necessarily all about sex out there ... Well, the title of the record is SUPRISE! x2. Never known an illicit watch-vendor to use that word when hawking their wares. Flashers, otoh, that's more than a cliché. This may all be hypothetical to you, but I had a good friend who as it turned out was a flasher, got convicted, did 90 days in jail might well still be on probation for all I know. He's not a friend anymore because although he owned up to it to explain why he was going to be unavailable for a while, he never really admitted that he had a problem past getting "overheated from time to time". I had a teenage daughter at the time, and the first thing I did was to let her know was that this guy was like this, and then ask her had ever ever even hinted at anything with her. She said she hadn't, but then she told me about guys her own age who were up to shit like that, just pulling out their junk and looking for a reaction. So yeah, the whole "flasher as joke" thing is not funny to me. And if the album title had been, Hey, Wanna Buy A Band? or something like that, your logic would make sense to me. But it's not, and it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HutchFan Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Randy Weston - The Spirits of Our Ancestors (Antilles) 1 hour ago, soulpope said: Excellent! Edited October 9, 2018 by HutchFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) Quote: Well, the title of the record is SUPRISE! x2. Never known an illicit watch-vendor to use that word when hawking their wares. Flashers, otoh, that's more than a cliché. This may all be hypothetical to you, but I had a good friend who as it turned out was a flasher, got convicted, did 90 days in jail might well still be on probation for all I know. He's not a friend anymore because although he owned up to it to explain why he was going to be unavailable for a while, he never really admitted that he had a problem past getting "overheated from time to time". I had a teenage daughter at the time, and the first thing I did was to let her know was that this guy was like this, and then ask her had ever ever even hinted at anything with her. She said she hadn't, but then she told me about guys her own age who were up to shit like that, just pulling out their junk and looking for a reaction. So yeah, the whole "flasher as joke" thing is not funny to me. And if the album title had been, Hey, Wanna Buy A Band? or something like that, your logic would make sense to me. But it's not, and it doesn't. No, flashers as a joke aren't funny but "surprise" or not, my first reaction to this cover definitely was a case of "hey, wanna have a look-a at da guys I gotta in-a my band-a?" just like those "special deals" displayed for purchase in the same manner, given the placing of the names and given the outfit - which is NOT typical for flashers, isnt it? Whereas it certainly is typical for a certain type of these peddlers. Can happen even over here and even in recent times, unbelievable though this may be - I remember an instance some 10 years ago when I was just chatting innocently with a friend in the passageway leading to his garage's backyard in some really deserted industrial estate when some pseudo-upscale-looking sedan pulled in and some Southern-looking feller (yes, I am not sorry to state he clearly was of gypsy background, stereotypes or not - it was unmistakable and that area does have a sizable - and all in all perfectly straightforward and honest - population of that background) jumped out, dressed in some awfully styled pinstriped double-breasted suit, watch chain and all, showing off a load of watches he had for sale at an oh so special price as "leftovers from trade fair stall displays". Sounds incredible? Well, though afterwards we laughted, figuring this could only have happened in old B-movies, we DID feel bugged and annoyed at the time and told him in no uncertain terms we were NOT takers. So you will have to take my word for this to be true just as much as I have to take your word for your story to be true. In a situation like yours I'd probably have reacted like you but basically it's still is different strokes and I don't see much reason to go about to see where there is sex out there in public that one can elect to feel offended about. In short, silly cover of doubtful taste that I for one would not find a selling point at all but not that big a deal to work yourself up about if you look at it objectively.. Edited October 9, 2018 by Big Beat Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Big Beat Steve said: No, flashers as a joke aren't funny but "surprise" or not, my first reaction to this cover definitely was a case of "hey, wanna have a look-a at da guys I gotta in-a my band-a?" just like those "special deals" displayed for purchase in the same manner, given the placing of the names and given the outfit - which is NOT typical for flashers, isnt it? Whereas it certainly is typical for a certain kind of these peddlers. Happens even over here and even in recent time,s unbelievable though this may be - I remember an instance some 10 years ago when I was just chatting innocently with a friend in the passageway leading to his garage's backyard in some really deserted industrial estate when some pseudo-upscale-looking sedan pulled in and some Southern-looking feller (yes, I am not sorry to state he clearly was of gypsy background, stereotypes or not - it was unmistakable and that area does have a strong - and all in all perfectly straightforward and honest population of that background) jumped out, in some awfully styled pinstriped double-breasted suit, watch chain and all, showing off a load of watches he had for sale at an oh so special price as "leftovers from trade fair stall displays". Sounds incredible? Well, though afterwards we laughted, figuring this could only have happened in old B-movies, we DID feel bugged and annoyed at the time and told him in no uncertain terms we were NOT takers. So you will have to take my word for this to be true just as much as I have to take your word for your story to be true. In a situation like yours I'd probably have reacted like you but basically it's still is different strokes and I don't see much reason to go about to see where there is sex out there in public that one can elect to feel offended about. In short, silly cover of doubtful taste that I for one would not find a selling point at all but not that big a deal to work yourself up about if you look at it objectively.. wow. that's just all kinds of...all kinds of. Getting past that, though, I guess considering the album title in conjunction with the image in question is not objective? o....k.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 No wow. Just telling it like it happened. Like I said, different experiences, different reactions, different associations, and like I also said several times over before, the garb and the placing of the names had and has different connotations for me, though - like I also said - I do understand your reaction based on your past experiences. As for "objectivity", do some googling for tastelessest LP covers ever from the past X decades and I do think you are bound to come up with worse examples than this (which - AGAIN - I DO find utterly silly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 What tips this over to tasteless is the way his knees are bent, that damn saxophone is lining up directly with his junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Roots: Stablemates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Beat Steve Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Yes you've go a point there. (Though I am a bit surprised at the number of cover-up meanings that seem to be coaxed out of the word "junk" ) But regardless of what the actual ly intended connotions were, what WERE they thinking, then? This cover did not happen THAT long ago. Certainly not in the laissez-faire late 60s/early 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Yeah, society has evolved out of that whole sexual predator thing since then, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Friedman Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I find the word "junk" to describe the male sexual organs to be more offensive than the photo. Also the other Frank Wess Cd with the title "Surprise! Surprise" on the Gemini label has a tune with that same title. This was a 1993 session which predated the Chiaroscuro session, and was recorded in Norway. The CD was called "Surprise! Surprise as the producer had no intention to record musicians who were playing at the Oslo Jazz Festival. I have not heard the Chiaroscuro CD, but like the one on Gemini a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tapscott Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Peter Friedman said: Also the other Frank Wess Cd with the title "Surprise! Surprise" on the Gemini label has a tune with that same title. This was a 1993 session which predated the Chiaroscuro session, and was recorded in Norway. The CD was called "Surprise! Surprise as the producer had no intention to record musicians who were playing at the Oslo Jazz Festival. I have not heard the Chiaroscuro CD, but like the one on Gemini a lot. You might enjoy this one. Edited October 10, 2018 by Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesnik Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gheorghe Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Bluesnik said: and Those are really classics. The two volums of J.J. are quite different. The best is the first session with Clifford Brown etc.. The second is quite strange, and I think it´s the only time Charles Mingus appears as bassist on the BN label. The last session from 1955 with Hank Mobley is quite good. Jazz Giant would have been my first Bud Album, but then it was a 2-LP Verve set which had the 1949-1951 Verve Session. Sonny Stitt.... I think it was the first time he recorded tenor. But if I have to choose between alto and tenor I like Stitt mostly on alto. I like this one very much "Sonny Stitt-Bud Powell-J.J.Johnson. IMHO Bud was always best when combined with other great bop players, like the sessions he did with Dexter, with J.J, with Bird and Fats Navarro, the half BN-Side with Curtis Fuller, the encounter with Art Blakey Jazzmessengers (Blakey in Paris) and the Essen Festival with Hawk, and the stuff with Johnny Griffin. The J.J.Johnson tracks are much more relaxed, it might be the influence of John Lewis. And it´s strange for Prestige Recordings, that there are so many alternative tracks on the J.J. Session. At least on the japanes edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 Lee Morgan – The Sidewinder (Blue Note, 1963) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 8 hours ago, John Tapscott said: A great album!!! Breakfast this morning with Oliver Nelson - Screamin' the blues Empire Bakuba - Kabambare Houston Person & Ron Carter - Remember love MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted October 10, 2018 Report Share Posted October 10, 2018 Joe Henderson - Our Thing (Blue Note, 1963) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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