So, What Are You Listening To NOW?

[soulpope]

[kh1958]

Christian Scott, Diaspora (Ropeadope)

Edited August 21, 2017 by kh1958

[sidewinder]

[HutchFan]

Mongo Santamaría - Mongo at Montreux (Atlantic, 1971)

[HutchFan]

Bill Barron - Modern Windows Suite (Savoy)
Despite the title, this CD does not include all of the music from Modern Windows -- only side A (4 cuts) from the LP.  On the other hand, all of the music from The Tenor Stylings of Bill Barron LP is included on the disc. So Modern Windows Suite seems like an unnecessarily confusing choice for this reissue.   

. . . Oh well. The music is good! 

[mikeweil]

 

3 hours ago, HutchFan said:

Mongo Santamaría - Mongo at Montreux (Atlantic, 1971)

That was a smokin' band Mongo had at Montreux. Only bummer is they didn't restore the percussion track for the CD issue - Saoco, a tune by Armando Peraza. (You can watch it on YouTube, search for the title.)

Edited August 21, 2017 by mikeweil

[Buddha the Magnificent]

Mal Waldron - All Alone (GTA Records, 1966).  Mal Waldron - piano.

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

That was a smokin' band Mongo had at Montreux. Only bummer is they didn't restore the percussion track for the CD issue - Saoco, a tune by Armando Peraza. (You can watch it on YouTube, search for the title.)

Absolutely. I love the dynamism, the thrust of that record.

And thanks for the heads-up about "Saoco."  I had no idea.   

[mikeweil]

 

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

 

Dynamite .... and Carter Jefferson ....

Edited August 21, 2017 by soulpope

[JSngry]

15 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Good points above, but some facts got garbled. The person who said that thing about Kenton and Ellington was Andre Previn, not Gunther Schuller.

And I knew that...apparently not well enough to think it in real time, though.

Andre Previn seems to me a uniquely qualified individual to have noted what "studio arrangers" would or what not have been able to "know what it is".

Seriously, when I was a kid, that quote of his (which I believe I first came across in Jazz Masters Of The 1950s) made me go all YEAH, you slick studio guys don't know shit about the REAL JAZZ MUSIC, but then I got a little older, a little less dogmatic, listened to a few more Andre Previn records, and the pulled up a bit and realized, no, that's not a profound statement, that's a defense mechanism, that's avoiding owning his own lack of understanding by casting what he doesn't understand as some kind of mysterious voodoo shit.

I don't mean that as a knock on Previn, who has an exceptionally gifted musical mind. Nor do I mean to oversimplify Duke/Strayhorn because those cats did some really, uh...unconventional writing that frequently defies easy transcription. But it gets easier once you do indeed realize that "what it is" and "how it's done" for a "studio arranger" and for a working self-contained ongoing history-in-real-time Ellington band are not the same thing.

Case in point - that Ellington/Sinatra album with Billy May charts. That thing is ragged as hell (and recorded even more raggedy, at least the stereo LP) but the raggediness serves a purpose - you can hear the individual parts quite well, and you can tell that Billy May did know "how it was done", knew quite well in fact. He knew that it wasn't just about voicings, it was about giving the right note to the right voice to get the right sound, the Ellington sound.

So ok, Andre Previn was mystified. Billy May wasn't. Andre Previn is a smart guy, as was Billy May, so I gotta think he's saying more about himself than he is about Stan Kenton (whoever/whatever that was supposed to mean), studio arrangers (some/many of whom would know what "Stan Kenton" was up to because they wrote it!), and/or Duke Ellington.

 

[HutchFan]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

 

That's stinkin' fantastic! THANK YOU for sharing!!! So cool to SEE them perform!

Has this entire concert ever been released on DVD?

 

 

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

And I knew that...apparently not well enough to think it in real time, though.

Andre Previn seems to me a uniquely qualified individual to have noted what "studio arrangers" would or what not have been able to "know what it is".

Seriously, when I was a kid, that quote of his (which I believe I first came across in Jazz Masters Of The 1950s) made me go all YEAH, you slick studio guys don't know shit about the REAL JAZZ MUSIC, but then I got a little older, a little less dogmatic, listened to a few more Andre Previn records, and the pulled up a bit and realized, no, that's not a profound statement, that's a defense mechanism, that's avoiding owning his own lack of understanding by casting what he doesn't understand as some kind of mysterious voodoo shit.

I don't mean that as a knock on Previn, who has an exceptionally gifted musical mind. Nor do I mean to oversimplify Duke/Strayhorn because those cats did some really, uh...unconventional writing that frequently defies easy transcription. But it gets easier once you do indeed realize that "what it is" and "how it's done" for a "studio arranger" and for a working self-contained ongoing history-in-real-time Ellington band are not the same thing.

Case in point - that Ellington/Sinatra album with Billy May charts. That thing is ragged as hell (and recorded even more raggedy, at least the stereo LP) but the raggediness serves a purpose - you can hear the individual parts quite well, and you can tell that Billy May did know "how it was done", knew quite well in fact. He knew that it wasn't just about voicings, it was about giving the right note to the right voice to get the right sound, the Ellington sound.

So ok, Andre Previn was mystified. Billy May wasn't. Andre Previn is a smart guy, as was Billy May, so I gotta think he's saying more about himself than he is about Stan Kenton (whoever/whatever that was supposed to mean), studio arrangers (some/many of whom would know what "Stan Kenton" was up to because they wrote it!), and/or Duke Ellington.

 

Total thumbs up on the idea that we should always be skeptical of the "received wisdom" regarding music -- and art in general!  No sense in accepting others' judgments without first giving it an honest, fair shake and then deciding for ourselves whether it's dross, gold, or something in between.

Edited August 21, 2017 by HutchFan

[rostasi]

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by rostasi

[JSngry]

I've found that I've tended to receive the "received wisdom" that has best fit my emotional bent of whatever time I'm in. Trying now do separate emotion from objectivity in order to fully value things on their own terms, not on my. A lot of times, that means going back to things I've rejected for emotional rather than purely empirical means. And once that gets cleared up, it's so much easier to identify the emotional connections and rejections as such. Some of the things I've had no use forI've embraced fully or at least in part, and some I still have no use for. But just examining "fact vs. fiction" is a fun thing to do. There's been a lot of "guilty pleasures" as well as "irrational fears" in my engagement of musics over the years, and I don't know that I believe that guilt or fear are building blocks. Irrationality sure as hell isn't!

Another thing - the socio-political climate keeps evolving. The resentment I felt against, say, "Stan Kenton" still remains, I mean, the "big thing" that he had made around him as a Leader Into The future and all that bullshit was just that - bullshit. But for me it's now balanced out (or at least reconsidered) by all the really good, occasionally great(!) music that people other than Stan Kenton can now be more clearly received as NOT being "Stan Kenton". "Stan Kenton" no longer means shit one way or the other because that world has evolved into a whole other one with new enemies, new battles, the more things change, etc. Agendas, always, but real creativity, not always.

Just looking at old music of any type (including Duke!)...you can't "receive" the wisdom of the mythologies alone, you need (imo) to look at all of this in terms of people/place/time/etc, sure, but also as plain, simple, human activity, shaped by chrono-specific forces but not immune from eternal human impulses and verities . "Stan Kenton" was marketing, but Stan Kenton himself was a dude who believed in that concept, and in true manner of his time/place/etc. he set about hiring people to flesh it out - a LOT of people, and some of THOSE people actually found a personal voice there and made truly unique music. " Some played to the image, but such is life, right? Not just music, life. There will be those who seek and find, those who at least seek, those who find accidentally and then either do or don't take it someplace, and those who just don't bother. If there's a truly universal truth about all this, that's probably gonna be it.

That, and yes - individuality is the ultimate enemy of the generalization.

[BillyBatts]

Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons - Firebirds

[mikeweil]

2 hours ago, HutchFan said:

That's stinkin' fantastic! THANK YOU for sharing!!! So cool to SEE them perform!

Has this entire concert ever been released on DVD?

No, I don't think so. The source for this is obscure, it is strange there are no videos of the other tracks, and the visual and audio quality sucks, like that of the existing videos of the performance by Les McCann & Eddie Harris from Montreux. Probably bootleg copies of Swiss TV tapes.

Edited August 21, 2017 by mikeweil

[HutchFan]

1 hour ago, BillyBatts said:

Prince Lasha and Sonny Simmons - Firebirds

Great music!!!

[alankin]

Ivo Perelman featuring Louis Sclavis – The Ventriloquist (Leo Records)
— Ivo Perelman (tenor sax), Louis Sclavis (bass clarinet), Christine Wodrascka (piano), Paul Rogers (bass), Ramon Lopez (drums)

[HutchFan]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

No, I don't think so. The source for this is obscure, it is strange there are no videos of the other tracks, and the visual and audio quality sucks, like that of the existing videos of the performance by Les McCann & Eddie Harris from Montreux. Probably bootleg copies of Swiss TV tapes.

Thanks for the info, mike.  Bummer that it's not available. 

 

 

NP:

A Night with Poncho Sanchez Live: Bailar (Concord Picante)

[Buddha the Magnificent]

Bob Degen and Harvie Swartz - Chartreuse (Enja 3015, 1978).  Bob Degen - piano; Harvie Swartz - bass.

[alankin]

Tete Montoliu – Songs for Love (Enja Records / MW) — solo piano

[soulpope]

[HutchFan]

soulpope mentioned Carter Jefferson earlier today. . . 

Carter Jefferson - The Rise of Atlantis (Timeless)

[soulpope]

 

[medjuck]

3 hours ago, JSngry said:

I've found that I've tended to receive the "received wisdom" that has best fit my emotional bent of whatever time I'm in. Trying now do separate emotion from objectivity in order to fully value things on their own terms, not on my. A lot of times, that means going back to things I've rejected for emotional rather than purely empirical means. And once that gets cleared up, it's so much easier to identify the emotional connections and rejections as such. Some of the things I've had no use forI've embraced fully or at least in part, and some I still have no use for. But just examining "fact vs. fiction" is a fun thing to do. There's been a lot of "guilty pleasures" as well as "irrational fears" in my engagement of musics over the years, and I don't know that I believe that guilt or fear are building blocks. Irrationality sure as hell isn't!

Another thing - the socio-political climate keeps evolving. The resentment I felt against, say, "Stan Kenton" still remains, I mean, the "big thing" that he had made around him as a Leader Into The future and all that bullshit was just that - bullshit. But for me it's now balanced out (or at least reconsidered) by all the really good, occasionally great(!) music that people other than Stan Kenton can now be more clearly received as NOT being "Stan Kenton". "Stan Kenton" no longer means shit one way or the other because that world has evolved into a whole other one with new enemies, new battles, the more things change, etc. Agendas, always, but real creativity, not always.

Just looking at old music of any type (including Duke!)...you can't "receive" the wisdom of the mythologies alone, you need (imo) to look at all of this in terms of people/place/time/etc, sure, but also as plain, simple, human activity, shaped by chrono-specific forces but not immune from eternal human impulses and verities . "Stan Kenton" was marketing, but Stan Kenton himself was a dude who believed in that concept, and in true manner of his time/place/etc. he set about hiring people to flesh it out - a LOT of people, and some of THOSE people actually found a personal voice there and made truly unique music. " Some played to the image, but such is life, right? Not just music, life. There will be those who seek and find, those who at least seek, those who find accidentally and then either do or don't take it someplace, and those who just don't bother. If there's a truly universal truth about all this, that's probably gonna be it.

That, and yes - individuality is the ultimate enemy of the generalization.

Received opinion keeps changing too.  When I started really listening to jazz in 1961 received opinion was that  Ahmad Jamal was a cocktail pianist, post army Prez was much inferior to his earlier work, Pops' big band work was unworthy of him, Stan Kenton was head of some sort of overblown cult, and after Moanin', Art Blakey had become a cliche. (I'm embarrassed to admit that I once wrote a club review of the 2nd great Miles quintet in which I referred to Wayne Shorter having "escaped the confines of The Jazz Messengers".)  

Received opinion now disagrees with all of this except Kenton.   (And btw I still agree with  some of the old opinions.)