Milestones Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 I'm curious to know what people like most on the 4 CDs of Road Shows. I have not listened all that much, and not at all to Volume 4; so really it's self-interest--getting recommendations on a manageable running time featuring the cream of the crop. Quote
Mark Stryker Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) I think the single best track on all four CDs is actually the literal opener: Cut one on Vol. 1, "Best Wishes." Sonny plays his ass off -- very uninhibited -- and so does Al Foster. I'd like to hear the rest of this particular concert! Edited January 24, 2017 by Mark Stryker Quote
Milestones Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Posted January 24, 2017 I knew that was coming. Quote
JSngry Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah, right? But seriously, they're all strong, all good, all worth a spot on your shelf if you want to hear any of this type of thing. Having said that, I really think that this last one, 4, is one of the all-time great Sonny Rollins records, period. And I listened to it a whole, BIG lot before deciding that, it's not a statement I make casually or out of fandom. It's the one that is consistently WTF? ish on every cut, you know, he just played WHAT????? There's a cut where it takes a while for that to happen, but once it does, it stays happening. Everything else is pretty much straight-through with it, and it seems like there's less room given to the bands, which is ok, even if there's some good bands on there. You got sonny firing on all cylinders on there at the same time and nothing tops that, nothing, sorry band, you just let the man do his thing, you can play out on some other tunes on some other nights. So really, imo, start with 4. It's the one I'll not live without. Quote
mjzee Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 Volume 1 is just solid throughout; I'd start there. If you're not a fan of Ornette Coleman (as I am not), be aware that his track on Volume 2 ("Sonnymoon For Two") takes up about a third of the album. It's pretty sad to hear him struggle with some simple changes. Volume 3 is also solid, with a great "Why Was I Born" and ending with "Don't Stop The Carnival." I have Volume 4 but haven't yet heard it. Quote
Milestones Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) I have checked out Vol. 4 on Spotify, and this may well be the best one so far released. The others are all in my collection, and maybe I have not listened enough; but they seem a bit hit-and-miss. The meeting with Ornette was a good idea (in my book), but it sure went on a long time; and I think they should have performed together at least three decades earlier. Edited January 24, 2017 by Milestones Quote
JSngry Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 1-3 are less consistent, imo, but the highs are really high, and I can go there with Sonny, through the lows to get to the highs. Been doing it for years now. But 4...I've listened to that thing in blocks of days, just listening to it all day for 3-5 days non-stop, have done this three times so far, and it continues to deepen. 1-3 have not compelled me to go that deep. Not much music does these days, so....yeah. For me, 4 is in a league by itself. I'm advocatin' here, so proceed accordingly, but I try to know when I'm advocatin' and when I'm just pimpin'. YMMV. Quote
Milestones Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Posted January 24, 2017 I'm up for Vol. 4. It does seem odd, though, that this should be the best of the "Road Shows" series. Maybe there will be better ones yet to come. Quote
Mark Stryker Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 For the record. I agree with Jim that 4 is the most consistent, best overall and filled with wtf moments. But "all-time great Sonny Rollins record" is a high bar, and I'm not ready to go there; but I don't discount Jim's personal truth when it comes to Sonny. Quote
JSngry Posted January 24, 2017 Report Posted January 24, 2017 I really don't make the claim lightly. Really, I do not. That is indeed one of the highest of high bars. But - There is just so much mastery on it, consistent, sustained, advanced mastery...beyond "virtuosity", metaphysical shit, like, I don't know that the tenor saxophone should be able to do some of those things, I don't know that time should be able to do some of those things. Obviously they can, here is the proof, but...you know, can't just any badass tenor player do THIS, ok? Can't just any badass HUMAN do this. We're talking physics, how matter is behaving when occupying time/space. Honestly, I think the way Sonny plays at his peak is going to become a "lost art" because I don't know how many people with that deep a "traditional" background/training are even thinking about applying it in the type of metaphysical ways that Sonny has, it's just not something that people DO these days, you know, people are either all about the abstract or all about the literal, Sonny is like, oh well, that's a dichotomy that is imposed from within and from without, let me set about erasing it from both places, let me master both, and let me do it while nobody's looking so I don't get distracted. Why not? As far as 4 being the most consistent, I think there's a possibility that Sonny didn't want to go full frontal with the live stuff as long as he thought he might still go touring again...Not to say that he's "given up" on a return to live performance, but otoh, you gotta think he's not naïve about it either. One of the things he's been weird about over the years has been the notion about not wanting to have to compete with his past recordings, I kinda think that's why most of the Milestone albums have one, sometimes two, killer cuts and the rest sort of hold back. After a while, it got to be obvious that most of these records were not looking to scale the peaks, so to speak, they were just looking to have decent-enough product in the marketplace to whet the appetite for the live experience. That's totally contrarian to any "logical" jazz (or business) philosophy, but that's the only explanation I have, and it does kinda sync up with Sonny's repeated insistence that for him, the magic is in the moment, that improvisation itself is a process, not a performance, and that the "end" is to get to that zone in real, fresh time, not through "presentation" of planned solos. You can hear that on the best live things, it's not so much that he plays anything "new", it's how he's putting it together, his rhythms, inflections, little micro-details. I mean, I guess we'd all love it if sonny Rollins got there every time on every record and on every gig, but then it would not be Sonny Rollins we were experiencing, at least not as how I think he sees it. It would be Sonny Rollins presenting an idealized Sonny Rollins. Now, it might be that he's thinking, no more of that, no more worries, time to let it out. It's some pretty intense music, mentally, spiritually, hell, physically. Just idle speculation, nothing more. I don't always think, but when I do, I often think about Sonny Rollins. Quote
Gheorghe Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 I love all of it, from Vol. 4 especially the long version of "Don´t Stop the Carnival" and the live version of "Disco Monk", since I remember that 1979 working group very well (Mark Soskin, Jerome Harris and the great Al Foster). From the earlier volumes I like an extended version of "Why Was I Born" and of course the "Rollins Coleman Encounter". When I was young, my favourite Rollins Group was the one with Don Cherry, Henry Grimes and Billy Higgins, so anyway I wondered why it didn´t happen earlier. But Rollins really digs into Coleman´s harmolodic concepts when he returns for one more solo after Ornette...... I also love that short and slower version of "St. Thomas" and the way it´s done it sounds so good I would like to hear a long version of it. Maybe on Vol. 5...... Quote
Dmitry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 23 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: I think the single best track on all four CDs is actually the literal opener: Cut one on Vol. 1, "Best Wishes." Sonny plays his ass off -- very uninhibited -- and so does Al Foster. I'd like to hear the rest of this particular concert! Heard him 2x over the years. Didn't enjoy it. Imho the music is night and day, comparing to his heyday 1950s-60s records and leaves many fans feeling lukewarm at best to his later albums. But I'm not a musician, and can't judge it on its technical merits, so that's that. This track also did nothing to me. There are so many tenor players who can, and do play like that. Just my $.02 Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 Gonna be a lost art man, I'm telling you. Quote
Mark Stryker Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Dmitry said: This track also did nothing to me. There are so many tenor players who can, and do play like that. I would never presume to argue with the first sentence. But the second sentence? Name one. I don't know anyone who else who can or would choose to play this way.. Now, if you mean to say that lots of other tenors would play a piece of material similar to this one in ways you would prefer to the way Sonny does, then I'd also have no argument. Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 Jack Schlitz comes to mind, as do Little Danny Omnivorz and Paula Boatslip. Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 DuVont Goodbowell & Riscalio Crackerbarrel are also two younger guys who have the playing like Rollins thing down to a frighteningly real exactness of similarity. If these two are any indication, we're at the beginning of a new Golden Age! Quote
Dmitry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: I would never presume to argue with the first sentence. But the second sentence? Name one. I don't know anyone who else who can or would choose to play this way.. Now, if you mean to say that lots of other tenors would play a piece of material similar to this one in ways you would prefer to the way Sonny does, then I'd also have no argument. Yes, that's what I meant. Same type of music, with much vigor and technique. Sorry for not being clear the first time. As to the names,the first that come to mind.. Eric Alexander can play with the same force, Lovano, Redman. Edited January 25, 2017 by Dmitry Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 Just wondering...what passes for "vigor and technique" in the marketplace of ideas these days? Quote
Dmitry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: 1 hour ago, JSngry said: Just wondering...what passes for "vigor and technique" in the marketplace of ideas these days? How's this? Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 I can't see that video at work...who/what is it? Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 Oh, Joshua Redman. Ok, yeah, sure, same thing only better! Quote
danasgoodstuff Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) "There are so many tenor players who can, and do play like that. " Not in my experience of saxophication on this planet. You know, except Jack Schlitz. Edited January 25, 2017 by danasgoodstuff Quote
JSngry Posted January 25, 2017 Report Posted January 25, 2017 And let's not forget Norton Budlite, Ryan Boulachilli, Pam Wham, and Filadaeus Moclephony. Quote
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