Benny Goodman Bands Playing Fletcher Henderson Charts

[JSngry]

Never mind the whole "King Of Swing" mess, and quite apart from the fact that yes, absolutely Benny Goodman's band made it a point to play those charts in a way that was unquestionably "cleaner", "lighter", "politer", and yes, "whiter" than Fletcher did with his own band,  quite apart from that, I'd like to say that it's a rewarding journey to follow the Goodman bands' (yes, plural) evolutions on these charts, the RCA band brought enthusiasm if not real interpretation at first, but as time went on (and by the time the band moved to Columbia), Benny had really gotten inside those scores as orchestral music and got his band to play them just so, down to the finest detail, and whatever he took out in terms of rawness he put back in polish, not just a slick sheen, but a real, organic polish.

Perhaps this is one of the earliest examples of what "Third Stream" really is? Taking functional dance band charts and treating them to the detailed dissection and performance practices as a classical conductor would, and not halfassing the final result from either side.

Fletcher Henderson was a genius, I swear, a man would could take a fixed language and variate it to no end. With Goodman's bands playing his charts, I find myself almost ignoring (sometimes completely ignoring) the leads and soloists and going the full immersion route on the backgrounds, good lord, that shit just bounces back and forth with the glee of a kid on a trampoline, and a big reason why it's so joyous is that the band is playing the parts with so many microdetails of pitch and time, Benny's got them at that level and they're not guessing or otherwise figuring it out, they've got it figured out. From Hymie Schertzer's lead alto to Toots Mondello's, there is a forward evolution, as there is with the entire band.

That Goodman/Columbia band of the early 1940s, that was one helluva band and they had one helluva range of writers - Jimmy Mundy, Mel Powell, Eddie Sauter, Margie Gibson, but it seems to me that Fletcher Henderson was still the heart of that band, and, really, the heart of all Benny Goodman bands until the end of time. Benny Goodman playing Fletcher Henderson is not the same thing as Fletcher Henderson playing Fletcher Henderson, but it is its own thing, and I will say that the chart that Henderson did for Goodman on "Stealing Apples" (one that his own bands never played, is that correct?), is surely a piece of music that leaves life better than it found it.

[Larry Kart]

[jazztrain]

Fletcher Henderson recorded Stealin' Apples with his own band on March 26, 1936 and again on October 25, 1937.  According to Walter Allen's "Hendersonia" these were described by Dick Vance as head arrangements.

Allen has an extended discussion about Stealin' Apples.  I'll provide some of it below:

>>> This is another another 32-bar Fats Waller tune, which for some reason seems pretty much confined to the Henderson and Goodman bands, at least on recordings.  Fletcher's great 1936 "Christopher Columbus" band made a fine recording for Vocalion, which simply consists of a piano intro and chorus (4 + 32 bars), and then successive choruses by Chu Berry tenor sax, and Roy Eldridge trumpet.  Buster Bailey then blows for 24 bars, with the band riding out for the last 8 bars of this final chorus.  Not really much of an "arrangement" at all; although credited to Fletcher Henderson in Driggs' Columbia LP booklet, Dick Vance says it was a "head."  His 1937 recording ... is the identical routine (different soloists) except that the intro is by the band instead of by piano.

This number never really became a Henderson arrangement until he did it for Goodman.  The easiest known version is the July 8, 1939 Camel Caravan broadcast, and may be taken as the prototype.

>>>

Allen then provides information on 15 different versions by Goodman.

 

[ghost of miles]

Hep did a nice series of Goodman CDs grouped by arranger, with two volumes devoted to Henderson's charts for the band.  Thanks as always for this nuanced appreciation, Jim.

[JSngry]

2 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

Hep did a nice series of Goodman CDs grouped by arranger, with two volumes devoted to Henderson's charts for the band.  Thanks as always for this nuanced appreciation, Jim.

Yeah, I recently found a few of those at Half-Price and promptly took to amazon for wholly affordable copies of the rest. A very nice series indeed!

I don't want to go all Goodman crazy now (or ever) but I do have this one airshot disc that suggests that the band could be a lot more nuanced live than on record.

Studio, yeah, it's good, but the Liltin' Miss Tilton doesn't have all THAT much Lilt behind her.

Same band, live. Good god, swing! Pull that tempo down just a touch, let it breathe, holy shit, now you're getting someplace! Lilt Away, Martha! And that out chorus, holy shit, there you go, starting to get into the chart as a piece of music. I like how Benny kept refining his bands to get to that place, maybe he sacrifices something, but then again, maybe it wasn't a sacrifice as much as it was a decision to locate. This guy tackled Bartok, and apparently kept digging into the Fletcher Henderson stuff until the very end.

Stealin' Apples 1

Stealin' Apples last(?)

Just sayin', that's a seriously sturdy piece of music, and if you had the resources to play it for the rest of your life, why hte hell wouldn't you? That's recognizing and appreciating a blessing, and micromanaging a band into submission to get it played just so, hell do that if you have to, call it ego if you want to, I call it respecting Fletcher Henderson at least as much as you do Bartok.

This band sounds like it loved Fletcher Henderson more than it hated Benny Goodman, and I think that's all you need to know about the curative powers of Fletcher Hendeson:

 

[catesta]

7 hours ago, JSngry said:

Never mind the whole "King Of Swing" mess, and quite apart from the fact that yes, absolutely Benny Goodman's band made it a point to play those charts in a way that was unquestionably "cleaner", "lighter", "politer", and yes, "whiter" than Fletcher did with his own band,  quite apart from that, I'd like to say that it's a rewarding journey to follow the Goodman bands' (yes, plural) evolutions on these charts, the RCA band brought enthusiasm if not real interpretation at first, but as time went on (and by the time the band moved to Columbia), Benny had really gotten inside those scores as orchestral music and got his band to play them just so, down to the finest detail, and whatever he took out in terms of rawness he put back in polish, not just a slick sheen, but a real, organic polish.

Perhaps this is one of the earliest examples of what "Third Stream" really is? Taking functional dance band charts and treating them to the detailed dissection and performance practices as a classical conductor would, and not halfassing the final result from either side.

Fletcher Henderson was a genius, I swear, a man would could take a fixed language and variate it to no end. With Goodman's bands playing his charts, I find myself almost ignoring (sometimes completely ignoring) the leads and soloists and going the full immersion route on the backgrounds, good lord, that shit just bounces back and forth with the glee of a kid on a trampoline, and a big reason why it's so joyous is that the band is playing the parts with so many microdetails of pitch and time, Benny's got them at that level and they're not guessing or otherwise figuring it out, they've got it figured out. From Hymie Schertzer's lead alto to Toots Mondello's, there is a forward evolution, as there is with the entire band.

That Goodman/Columbia band of the early 1940s, that was one helluva band and they had one helluva range of writers - Jimmy Mundy, Mel Powell, Eddie Sauter, Margie Gibson, but it seems to me that Fletcher Henderson was still the heart of that band, and, really, the heart of all Benny Goodman bands until the end of time. Benny Goodman playing Fletcher Henderson is not the same thing as Fletcher Henderson playing Fletcher Henderson, but it is its own thing, and I will say that the chart that Henderson did for Goodman on "Stealing Apples" (one that his own bands never played, is that correct?), is surely a piece of music that leaves life better than it found it.

Holy shit dude, this is one hell of a price of writing. The Goodman Estate should be unass a few bucks and send it your way. You've never lacked ways to express or make a point but this shit right here makes me want to run home and put on some Benny Goodman. Nice job.  

[soulpope]

2 hours ago, catesta said:

Holy shit dude, this is one hell of a price of writing. The Goodman Estate should be unass a few bucks and send it your way. You've never lacked ways to express or make a point but this shit right here makes me want to run home and put on some Benny Goodman. Nice job.  

Same here ....

[JSngry]

 

I Can't Give You Anything but Love, 1936, this shit is so NOT right as far as real understanding of the writing goes. Spunky, sure, but pretty much lacking in any kind of nuance, just ching ching ching, hot hot hot, blah blah blah. Compare this to the 1937 live version, not just is it that any band gets better the more it plays together, but it's also that it takes some kind of leader, the actual front-man, a Musical Director, a section leader, somebody, to refine the music itself, to make it more than just something that sounds good enough to separate people from their monies. As far as I can tell, in the Goodman band of those days, that was Benny himself.

This is another one, did Henderson ever record it with his own band? Not that I can tell. So...thank you Benny Goodman for not slacking. Perfectionism in the pursuit of perfection is no vice.

[Ted O'Reilly]

Here's the flaccid Goodman band, getting its ass kicked with the arrival of Jimmy Rushing...by the end of his vocal, the band is working its ass off.  He WON'T let them play shit behind him...

 

[JSngry]

That's a Jimmy Mundy chart...can you use the YouTube timer to pinpoint the more-or-less exact moment when the band begins to replace flaccidity with tumescence? I'm afraid I can't find it.