JohnJ Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 when do you rekon THE WAY I FEEL will be out as a single disk. that album is way too good to be out of print. i have never heard it but once i saw big john not too long ago play the title cut. it was one of the high points of the show No time soon with the Mosaic Select readily available. Anyway, the Mosaic is great and well worth buying. Quote
Guest akanalog Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 i wish i could find some patton playing with sun ra. i heard he played with ra. is this true? maybe it isn't. also heard that patton had a trio with pharoah sanders and maybe george brown on drums? wonder if anything live or studio exists of this. reading the liner notes to harold alexander's "sunshine man", i gues alexander went on to play with elvin jones? that's sounds worth hearing too. wonder if anything exists.... Quote
Rooster_Ties Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) Having just recently gotten the Patton Select, there were three sessions there that were totally new to me (I think they where the last of his BN leader dates that I didn't already have). One of these I would rank right up there with the VERY best of his work... THAT CERTAIN FEELING totally kicks ass. The date is split across discs #2 and #3 on the Select, so I burned it all to one disc for listening in the car and such. DAMN, couldn't get that thing out of my car player for nearly a week. Jimmy Ponder is truely amazing on this date. Between this, and the alternate "warm up" date for Andrew Hill's GRASS ROOTS -- I really wish that Ponder had recorded in more "challenging" contexts in the late 60's (like he did with Patton and Hill). Wouldn't Ponder have been GREAT on a late 60's Larry Young date?? Or here's a crazy idea -- how about a Wayne Shorter album with just guitar (Ponder!), bass, and drums (no piano) -- sometime in about 1965-67. Coulda been interesting. Edited March 27, 2006 by Rooster_Ties Quote
Soul Stream Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Posted March 27, 2006 One of these I would rank right up there with the VERY best of his work... THAT CERTAIN FEELING totally kicks ass. Yes, I couldn't agree more. That Certain Feeling isn't only one of Patton's best...it's one of BLUE NOTE'S best!!!! Just a side note, Patton and Ponder had not played together until that day in the studio. No rehearsal, some of the tunes (all?) Patton came up with on the spot. That album is totally amazing. Quote
Guest akanalog Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 it appears to me that ejazzlines.com is selling copies of jimmy ponder's "jump" on CD if anyone is interested. Quote
Aggie87 Posted April 2, 2006 Report Posted April 2, 2006 To that end, the Nilva side, where he hooked up with another master of specificity, Grachan Moncur III, was a match made in heaven! I gotta find a copy of that. The auction ended at $21.00. Any board member the lucky winner? Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 2, 2006 Report Posted April 2, 2006 To that end, the Nilva side, where he hooked up with another master of specificity, Grachan Moncur III, was a match made in heaven! I gotta find a copy of that. The auction ended at $21.00. Any board member the lucky winner? That's pretty cheap! And here I thought I had a valuable original! MG Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 2, 2006 Report Posted April 2, 2006 I've just been listening to "Soul connection" and paid particular attention to Grant Reed, the tenor player on the date. Apart from this, Reed has, to my knowledge, only appeared on 2 Mongo Santamaria albums - "Mongo '70" and "Mongo's way". But he's a great tenor player; rather reminiscent of Booker Ervin and John Manning. Does anyone know anything about him? Is he from Texas? Has he appeared on any other albums? MG Quote
JSngry Posted April 2, 2006 Report Posted April 2, 2006 (edited) I've looked around for more info on Reed and can't find any. Agreed, a very grabbing player. Edited April 2, 2006 by JSngry Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted April 2, 2006 Report Posted April 2, 2006 I'm on Mongo '70 now. Struth! Is Reed playing hell out of that reed or what?! (Sorry, deliberate) MG Quote
sidewinder Posted August 4, 2006 Report Posted August 4, 2006 Up for a deserved bit of fresh air, in recognition of the Big John Wilkopedia thread. Just spinning the vinyl of 'Boogaloo'. Man, this one is white hot, specially side 2. Quote
Soul Stream Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Posted January 18, 2007 John is still the king. His records seem just as alive to me as the day they were recorded. One day the jazz world will catch up to what John was all about. Until then, I'll just keep spinning "Understanding" and saying "Damn!" He was so hip. After about '65, he was unstopable. Once you get to his last recorded sessions for Blue Note, he was waving 'bye bye' to all the organ grinders recycling Jimmy Smith licks. That's just the facts. People are unaware. Pure musicality. No bullshitting when John was on the stand. RIP, we miss you. Quote
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 yes we love u big john Quote
robertoart Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 How come such a long gap between 'Got a good thing goin' and 'That Certain Feeling'. Did this have something to do with Grant Green's hiatus from recording as well? By the way, the guitarist Peter Leitch in the liner notes to 'His Majesty King Funk,' mentions seeing Big John, Grant and and David Fathead Newman???I think,,, playing in Canada in 69. Wonder if that was about the last time that Grant and Big John performed together? Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 How come such a long gap between 'Got a good thing goin' and 'That Certain Feeling'. Did this have something to do with Grant Green's hiatus from recording as well? By the way, the guitarist Peter Leitch in the liner notes to 'His Majesty King Funk,' mentions seeing Big John, Grant and and David Fathead Newman???I think,,, playing in Canada in 69. Wonder if that was about the last time that Grant and Big John performed together? "Let 'em roll", which was recorded before "Got a good thing goin'", was released after it and before "Certain feeling". This was just after Liberty bought BN so I guess they must have been looking for some stuff to get out quick. MG Quote
robertoart Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 WOW Is that so, I didn't know that. Imagine if they released GAGTG and left let EM Roll in the can after that. Quote
Soul Stream Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Posted January 18, 2007 "Let 'em roll", which was recorded before "Got a good thing goin'", was released after it and before "Certain feeling". This was just after Liberty bought BN so I guess they must have been looking for some stuff to get out quick. MG Wow, I've never heard that!? Quote
Soulstation1 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 “BIG” JOHN PATTON BLUE NOTE DISCOGRAPHY THE NATURAL SOUL - BLP - 4108 LOU DONALDSON MAY 9, 1962 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY TOMMY TURRENTINE, TRUMPET; LOU DONALDSON, ALTO SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 FUNKY MAMA TK-15 2 LOVE WALKED IN TK-19 3 SPACEMAN TWIST TK-4 4 SOW BELLY BLUES TK-20 5 THAT’S ALL TK-13 6 NICE ’N’ GREASY TK-23 7 PEOPLE WILL SAY WE’RE IN LOVE TK-8 GOOD GRACIOUS! - BLP - 4125 LOU DONALDSON JANUARY 24, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY LOU DONALDSON, ALTO SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 BAD JOHN TK-15 2 THE HOLY GHOST TK-2 3 CHERRY TK-10 4 CARACAS TK-10 5 GOOD GRACIOUS TK-4 6 DON’T WORRY ’BOUT ME TK-16 ROCKIN’ THE BOAT - BL - 4141 JIMMY SMITH FEBRUARY 7, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY LOU DONALDSON, ALTO SAX, JIMMY SMITH, ORGAN; QUENTIN WARREN, GUITAR; DONALD BAILEY, DRUMS; "BIG" JOHN PATTON, TAMBOURINE 1 MATILDA, MATILDA TK-2 2 PORK CHOP TK-6 3 JUST A CLOSER WALK WITH THEE TK-11A BLUES FOR LOU GRANT GREEN - CONNOISSEUR CD SERIES FEBRUARY 20, 1963 AND JUNE 7,1963 (#8) VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 THE SURREY WITH THE FRINGE ON TOP TK-11 2 BIG JOHN TK-31 3 DON’T LET THE SUN CATCH YOU CRYING TK-28 4 LOOK AT THAT GIRL OF MINE TK-15 5 THIS LITTLE GIRL OF MINE TK-15 6 PERSONALITY TK-10 7 HAVE YOU EVER HAD THE BLUES TK-24 8 BLUES FOR LOU TK-26 AM I BLUE - BLP - 4139 GRANT GREEN MAY 16, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY JOHNNY COLES, TRUMPET; JOE HENDERSON, TENOR SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 AM I BLUE TK-3 2 TAKE THESE CHAINS FROM MY HEART TK-5 3 I WANNA BE LOVED TK-23 4 SWEET SLUMBER TK-10 5 FOR ALL WE KNOW TK-25 STEPPIN’ OUT - BLP - 4138 HAROLD VICK MAY 27, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY HAROLD VICK; TENOR SAX; BLUE MITCHELL, TRUMPET; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 OUR MISS BROOKS TK-14 2 TRIMMED IN BLUE TK-5 3 LAURA TK-17 4 DOTTY’S DREAM TK-16 5 VICKSVILLE TK-7 6 STEPPIN’ OUT TK-12 A MAN WITH A HORN LOU DONALDSON - CONNOISSEUR CD SERIES JUNE 7, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY IRVIN STOKES, TRUMPET; LOU DONALDSON, ALTO SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 HIPTY HOP TK-10 2 MY MELANCHOLY BABY TK-20 3 CHERRY PINK AND APPLE BLOSSOM WHITE TK-3 4 SOUL MEETIN’ TK-9 SHOUTIN - BLP - 4145 DON WILKERSON JULY 30, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY DON WILKERSON, TENOR SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 MOVIN’ OUT TK-12 2 COOKIN’ WITH CLARENCE TK-8 3 EASY LIVING TK-17 4 HAPPY JOHNNY TK-13 5 BLUES FOR J TK-21 6 SWEET CAKE TK-4 COWBELL BOOGIE - SINGLE FRED JACKSON - THE LOST SESSIONS - CONNOISSEUR CD SERIES JUNE 12, 1962 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY FRED JACKSON, TENOR SAX AND COWBELL; JOHN PATTON, PIANO; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; HERBIE LEWIS, BASS; BEN DIXON, DRUMS ALONG CAME JOHN - BLP - 4130 “BIG” JOHN PATTON APRIL 5, 1963 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY FRED JACKSON, TENOR SAX; HAROLD VICK; TENOR SAX GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 THE SILVER METER TK-2 2 I’LL NEVER BE FREE TK-21 3 SPIFFY DIFFY TK-3 4 ALONG CAME JOHN TK-14 5 GEE GEE TK-12 6 PIGS FOOTS TK-20 BLUE JOHN - BST - 84143 “BIG” JOHN PATTON AUGUST 2, 1963 AND JULY 13, 1963 (#5 AND #6) VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY TOMMY TURRENTINE, TRUMPET; GEORGE BRAITH, SOPRANO SAX AND STRITCH; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 HOT SAUCE TK-16 2 BERMUDA CLAY HOUSE TK-20 3 DEM DIRTY BLUES TK-34 4 COUNTRY GIRL TK-36 5 NICETY TK-14 6) BLUE JOHN TK-3 THE WAY I FEEL - BLP- 4174 “BIG” JOHN PATTON JUNE 19, 1964 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY RICHARD WILLIAMS, TRUMPET; FRED JACKSON, TENOR SAX AND BARITONE SAX: GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 THE ROCK TK-17 (1377) 2 THE WAY I FEEL TK-20 (1378) 3 JERRY TK-9 (1376) 4 DAVENE TK-28 (1380) 5 JUST 3/4 TK-22 (1379) OH BABY! - BLP - 4192 “BIG” JOHN PATTON MARCH 8, 1964 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY BLUE MITCHELL, TRUMPET; HAROLD VICK, TENOR SAX; GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BEN DIXON, DRUMS 1 FAT JUDY TK-33 (1541) 2 OH BABY! TK-33 (1538) 3 EACH TIME TK-27 (1539) 4 ONE TO TWELVE TK-7 (1536) 5 NIGHT FLIGHT TK-10 (1537) 6 GOOD JUICE TK-29 (1540) LET ’EM ROLL - BLP - 4239 “BIG” JOHN PATTON DECEMBER 11, 1965 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; BOBBY HUTCHERSON, VIBES; OTIS FINCH, DRUMS 1 LET ‘EM ROLL TK-25 (1697) 2 LATONA TK-14 (1695) 3 THE SHADOW OF YOUR SMILE TK-2 (1693) 4 THE TURNAROUND TK-5 (1694) 5 JAKEY TK-21 (1696) 6 ONE STEP AHEAD TJ-28 (1698) GOT A GOOD THING GOIN’ - BLP - 4229 “BIG” JOHN PATTON APRIL 29, 1966 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY GRANT GREEN, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; HUGH WALKER, DRUMS; RICHARD LANDRUM, CONGA 1 THE YODEL TK-45 (1734) 2 SOUL WOMAN TK-7 (1730) 3 AIN’T THAT PECULIAR TK-42 (1733) 4 THE SHAKE TK-37 (1732) 5 AMANDA TK-28 (1731) THAT CERTAIN FEELING “BIG” JOHN PATTON MARCH 8, 1968 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY JUNIOR COOK, TENOR SAX; JIMMY PONDER, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; CLIFFORD JARVIS, DRUMS 1 STRING BEAN 2 I WANT TO GO HOME 3 EARLY A.M. 4 DIRTY FINGERS 5 MINOR SWING 6 DADDY JAMES BOOGALOO “BIG” JOHN PATTON AUGUST 9, 1968 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY VINCENT McEWAN, TRUMPET; HAROLD ALEXANDER, FLUTE AND TENOR SAX; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; GEORGE EDWARD BROWN, DRUMS; RICHIE “PABLO” LANDRUM, CONGA 1 BOOGALOO BOOGIE 2 MILK & HONEY 3 BAREFOOTIN’ 4 SHOUTIN’ BUT NO POUTIN’ 5 SPIRIT 6 B & J (TWO SISTERS) UNDERSTANDING - BST - 84306 “BIG” JOHN PATTON OCTOBER 25, 1968 VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY HAROLD ALEXANDER, FLUTE AND TENOR SAX; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; HUGH WALKER, DRUMS 1 DING DONG 2 CONGO CHANT 3 ALFIE’S THEME 4 SOUL MAN 5 UNDERSTANDING 6 CHITLINS CON CARNE ACCENT ON THE BLUES - BN BST 84340 “BIG” JOHN PATTON AUGUST 15, 1969 (#1-7) AND JUNE 9, 1969 (#8-10) VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY MARVIN CABELL, TENOR SAX, SAXELLO AND FLUTE; GEORGE COLEMAN, TENOR SAX (#8-10); JAMES “BLOOD” ULMER, GUITAR (#1-7); “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; LEROY WILLIAMS, DRUMS 1 RAKIN’ AND SCRAPIN’ 2 FREEDOM JAZZ DANCE 3 CAPTAIN NASTY 4 VILLAGE LEE 5 LITE HIT 6 DON’T LET ME LOSE THIS DREAM 7 LITE HI (ALT TAKE ) 8 BUDDY BOY 9 2 J 10 SWEET PEA MEMPHIS TO NEW YORK SPIRIT - BN BST 84366 AND BST 84418 “BIG” JOHN PATTON OCTOBER 2,1970 (#1-5) AND JUNE 9, 1969 (#6-8) VAN GELDER STUDIO ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS, NEW JERSEY MARVIN CABELL, FLUTE TENOR AND SOPRANO SAX; JAMES “BLOOD” ULMER, GUITAR; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; LEROY WILLIAMS, DRUMS - (#1-5) MARVIN CABELL, TENOR AND SOPRANO SAX; GEORGE COLEMAN, TENOR SAX; “BIG” JOHN PATTON, B-3 ORGAN; LEROY WILLIAMS, DRUMS - (#6-8) 1 MEMPHIS 2 FOOTPRINTS 3 THE MANDINGO 4 BLOODYUN 5 STENO 6 MAN FROM TANGANYIKA 7 CISSY STRUT 8 DRAGON SLAYER Quote
robertoart Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 So 4229 and 4239 suggest both sessions hit the streets pretty close to each other. Still makes nearly 2 years between recording sessions for Big John. Would the Liberty takeover have played a part in that perhaps. Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 "Let 'em roll", which was recorded before "Got a good thing goin'", was released after it and before "Certain feeling". This was just after Liberty bought BN so I guess they must have been looking for some stuff to get out quick. MG Wow, I've never heard that!? These are the Blue Notes that were issued with the new mono/stereo sleeve design (post Liberty acquisition), before the issue of the 1967/68 BN illustrated catalogue. 4237 12/66 Unit structures 4240 12/66 Rough n tumble 4222 3/67 Cornbread 4248 3/67 Vibrations 4228 4/67 Bring it home to me 4250 4/67 Jody grind 4239 6/67 Let em roll 4246 6/67 Empty foxhole 4252 6/67 Sweet honey bee 4245 10/67 Like someone in love 4247 10/67 Symphony for improvisers 4253 10/67 Street of dreams 4255 10/67 I’m movin on 4263 10/67 Alligator bogaloo 4251 4/68 Easterly winds 4206 ? Contours BN also delayed the issue of "Street of dreams", which had been recorded before "I want to hold your hand" (released 7/66). MG Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 So 4229 and 4239 suggest both sessions hit the streets pretty close to each other. Very short. "Got a good thing goin'" came out 10/66, only 8 months before "Let 'em roll". Maybe it didn't sell well. Still makes nearly 2 years between recording sessions for Big John. Would the Liberty takeover have played a part in that perhaps. Soul stream would be better able to answer that, but I think the difference between "Let 'em roll" and "Certain feeling" is quite huge and indicates a lot of work on John Patton's part. There was a complete break with his former colleagues (partly because GG was out of it) and a radically different approach. Looking through the BN discography, there doesn't seem to be any notable hiatus between the two recording dates, except for about 5 weeks in late summer of 1967, when Alfred Lion actually retired. So I think it was down to John, feeling ready to record. MG Quote
Soulstation1 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 Steppin' Out NEEDS the RVG treatment this year..... Quote
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 I wonder if the reason "Got a good thing goin'" came out before "Let 'em roll" was BN being bounced into it, because they were told that Patton and Green had recorded "The yodel" for Atlantic a few weeks earlier, with Grassella Oliphant. Ironically, Atlantic didn't issue "The grass is greener" until early 1968. MG Quote
Soul Stream Posted January 18, 2007 Author Report Posted January 18, 2007 (edited) Still makes nearly 2 years between recording sessions for Big John. Would the Liberty takeover have played a part in that perhaps. Soul stream would be better able to answer that, but I think the difference between "Let 'em roll" and "Certain feeling" is quite huge and indicates a lot of work on John Patton's part. There was a complete break with his former colleagues (partly because GG was out of it) and a radically different approach MG As MG said, there is a HUGE breakthrough stylistically for John between the recording of Got A Good Thing Going and That Certain Feeling. I would describe GGTG as the last chapter in Big John's initial style. That Certain Feeling started a WHOLE 'nother thing. The musical feeling from that point on 'til the end of his life was much more open and free. His harmonic concept really opened up and as John loved to say..."put the whammy on you!" He covered a LOT of ground those two years, and I think the break with Grant really shows that he was developing his concept with other people. Here's a quote from John about that time.... John Patton, Feb. 2000 "There was something I wanted to capture in hearing Elvin play.... It was just another level that I wanted to try to get to. I had this concept of wanting to play feer, man, you know." Also, 1967 was the year John began a 6 year relationship with the Nation of Islam, taking the name Ya Ya (although he never used the name professionally). I think this also played a part in his musical sensibilities at the time. Edited January 18, 2007 by Soul Stream Quote
Kyo Posted January 18, 2007 Report Posted January 18, 2007 I'm quickly becoming a big fan of Patton's music. After being very impressed with Boogaloo last week, I got Accent on the Blues today and Memphis to New York Spirit is already in the mail to me, too. Also I will definitely be ordering the Mosaic Select along with the Hutcherson and Tyner sets pretty soon. Quote
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