John Patton Corner

[sidewinder]

Of peripheral interest - this month's Jazz Journal International has a good interview with Leroy Williams in which he mentions gigging in NYC with Big John (and recording 'Accent On The Blues') prior to the steady gigs with Barry Harris.

[Jim Alfredson]

That Nilva side RULES!

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I've been looking for that one for a long time.

[mailman]

That Nilva side RULES!

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I've been looking for that one for a long time.

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If you find it jump on it. I got it when it was first released and it's a winner.

[andybleaden]

Ihave it and its a killer session.....really cooks

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I thought I had all of John's recordings (after he left Lloyd Price) except for "Soul Fountain" by Clifford Jordan and the track on that John Zorn LP, but when I checked just now, I found he appeared on an album by Richard Pierson in 1997.

Has anyone got that? What's it like? Where can you get it? - It's not listed in AMG.

MG

[Soul Stream]

Of peripheral interest - this month's Jazz Journal International has a good interview with Leroy Williams in which he mentions gigging in NYC with Big John (and recording 'Accent On The Blues') prior to the steady gigs with Barry Harris.

Does he say much else? Is it worth picking up for the Patton stuff. If it's just a few sentences, maybe not for me. But if it's pretty informational, I'd be sure to pick it up. Is that a newstand thing?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I've actually got a Patton discography. I'll post it when I dig it up and have a few minutes....

Since Soul Stream hasn't posted a discog, here's a preliminary list:

JOHN PATTON DISCOGRAPHY – PRELIMINARY LIST

LLOYD PRICE SPECIALTY TRACKS ?

LLOYD PRICE ABC TRACKS ?

LOU DONALDSON - THE NATURAL SOUL - BN 84108 (9/5/1962)

FRED JACKSON SESSION – INC COWBELL BOOGIE – BN 21484 (21/6/62)

LOU DONALDSON - GOOD GRACIOUS - BN 84125 (24/1/1963)

JIMMY SMITH - ROCKIN' THE BOAT - BN 84141 (7/2/1963) Patton on tambourine!

GRANT GREEN - BLUES FOR LOU - BN CDP7 21438 (20/2&7/6/63)

JOHN PATTON - ALONG CAME JOHN - BN 84130 (5/4/1963)

JOHNNY GRIFFIN & MATTHEW GEE - SOUL GROOVE - ATL 1431 (14/5/1963)

GRANT GREEN - AM I BLUE - BN 84139 (16/5/1963)

HAROLD VICK - STEPPIN' OUT - BN 84138 (27/5/1963)

LOU DONALDSON - A MAN WITH A HORN - BN CDP7 21436 (7/6/63)

JOHN PATTON - BLUE JOHN - BN 84143 (11/7&2/8/1963)

LOU DONALDSON - SIGNIFYIN' - CADET 724 (17/7/1963)

DON WILKERSON - SHOUTIN' - BN 84145 (29/7/1963)

RED HOLLOWAY - THE BURNER - PR 7299 (10/10/1963)

LOU DONALDSON - POSSUM HEAD - CADET 734 (28/1/1964)

UNISSUED H VICK SESSION FOR BN (27/5/64) (2 tracks)

JOHN PATTON - THE WAY I FEEL - BN 84174 (19/6/1964)

JOHN PATTON - OH BABY - BN 84192 (8/3/1965)

ART BLAKEY - HOLD ON, I'M COMING - LIMELIGHT 86038 (27/5/66) Patton pseudonym Malcolm Bass

JOHN PATTON - LET 'EM ROLL - BN 84239 (11/12/1965)

GEORGE BRAITH - LAUGHING SOUL - PR 7474 (1/3/1966)

GRASELLA OLIPHANT - THE GRASS IS GREENER - ATL 1494 (1/3/1966)

JOHN PATTON - GOT A GOOD THING GOIN' - BN 84229 (29/4/1966)

CLIFFORD JORDAN – SOUL FOUNTAIN – VORTEX 2101 (12/10/1966)

GRANT GREEN - IRON CITY - COBBLESTONE 9002 (1967)

JOHN PATTON - THAT CERTAIN FEELING - BN 84281 (8/3/1968)

JOHN PATTON - BOOGALOO - BN 31878 (9/8/1968)

JOHN PATTON - UNDERSTANDIN' - BN 84306 (25/10/1968)

JOHN PATTON - MEMPHIS TO NEW YORK SPIRIT - BN 35221 (9/6/69,2/10/70)

JOHN PATTON - ACCENT ON THE BLUES - BN 84340 (9/6&15/8/1969)

JOHNNY LYTLE - EVERYTHING MUST CHANGE - MUSE 5158 (31/10/1977)

JOHN PATTON - SOUL CONNECTION - NILVA 3406 (7/6/1983)

JOHN ZORN - THE BIG GUNDOWN - ELEKTRA/NONESUCH79139 (9/84-9/85)

JOHN ZORN - SPILLANE - ELEKTRA/NONESUCH 79172 (8/86-9/87)

JIMMY PONDER - MEAN STREETS-NO BRIDGES - MUSE 5324 (19/6/1987)

JIMMY PONDER - JUMP - MUSE 5347 (28/3/1988)

JOHN PATTON - BLUE PLANET MAN - PADDLE WHEEL (J) KICJ168 (12&13/4/1993)

JOHN PATTON - MINOR SWING - DIW 896 (21/12/1994)

JOHN PATTON - THIS ONE'S FOR JA - DIW 919 (26/12/1995)

RICHARD PIERSON – OPENING STATEMENT – THE JAZZ LABEL LTD TJL001 (1997)

I've got all this stuff apart from the Price material, the Clifford Jordan, the Zorns (did JP appear on two?), and the Pierson, so I can vouch for it.

The only Price record I'm sure Patton was on is "Where were you on our wedding day", which I have got, because he co-wrote it. A friend once saw a Price LP in which Price, in the sleeve notes, said he thought that John Patton was destined for stardom. He had good taste in pianner players, that man; Harold Mabern worked for him in the late 60s.

The date for "Grass is greener" is different from what is in standard discographies (1 Mar 1965). I can't believe that Patton & Green would have waited over a year to redo "The Yodel" and "Soul Woman". I think there's a clerical error somewhere.

I'm positive it's Patton on the record the Blakey fans LOVE TO HATE!

There is someone called John Patton who plays French horn with the Aardvark Orchestra, but I think it’s a different geezer. Anyone know anything about him?

Anything I've missed? Any other points? Any info on his Lloyd Price recordings?

MG

Edited December 5, 2005 by The Magnificent Goldberg

[bertrand]

Thelma Patton told me there's a third, unissued DIW session.

Bertrand.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Thelma Patton told me there's a third, unissued DIW session.

Bertrand.

'Struth! How do we get that out into the world?

MG

[Rooster_Ties]

Thelma Patton told me there's a third, unissued DIW session.

Bertrand.

Who be on it??

[bertrand]

It may be listed in the Lord CD-Rom.

Bertrand.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It may be listed in the Lord CD-Rom.

Bertrand.

No, it's not on v 4.4.

MG

[Stefan Wood]

Bertrand and I had talked to Patton when he played at the Fat Cat in August 2001 in NYC. He mentioned this other session, but no mention of the players. He was smokin that night, with Ronnie Cuber.

[Cliff Englewood]

Just to change the subject from the current, all things Patton Obscure and Patton Unreleased, how come I've never heard anyone on this board raving about the song "Night Flight" by Harold Vick from "Oh Baby". Not only is it amazing B3 Jazz, it's amazing Jazz full stop. Could it be because it's not written by Patton himself? Great tune, mind numbing ensemble playing and really love the way John lets everybody else rip first and then saves the best/himself for last.

Smokin' indeed

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just to change the subject from the current, all things Patton Obscure and Patton Unreleased, how come I've never heard anyone on this board raving about the song "Night Flight" by Harold Vick from "Oh Baby". Not only is it amazing B3 Jazz, it's amazing Jazz full stop. Could it be because it's not written by Patton himself? Great tune, mind numbing ensemble playing and really love the way John lets everybody else rip first and then saves the best/himself for last.

Smokin' indeed

Yeah top stuff; that track has converted more people to organ fans than I care to remember. Not precisely your average dancefloor classic, however.

MG

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I'm glad you posted that, Cliff. I started thinking just after I'd responded, about how it's a total burner that not even Earland could better. In fact, I think Earland must have learned about horn arrangements from that cut. I can't think of any other cut that presages so well what he was doing several lears later.

No one had ever tried to arrange horns that way behind an organ. The way Blue and Harold come in after that single note line that John plays is just out of this world! I never thought of the track as being a significant innovation in organ jazz, but it was.

Course, John had done BURNERS before; "Cookin' with Clarence" is one. But the horn arrangements were lacking there. Night flight was a lesson.

MG

[Soul Stream]

Yes, Oh Baby was actually Patton's favorite record along with Along Came John. It's blistering, and Night Flight is simply amazing. All of the compositions on that record are completely memorable and original. Plus, Vick and Blue Mitchell really take it to another level. Awesome.

[Soul Stream]

Just was looking at the personel on "Understanding." I've listened to this LP a thousand times and it still blows me away how much MUSIC is made by these THREE....patton on organ, Hugh Walker on Drums, and Harold "Jazzbo" Alexander. I mean, to make music like this in an organ setting without another chordal instrument such as the guitar is amazing. Don Patterson could do it and you didn't notice and John Patton could as well. With other players you notice the drop-out.

The longer I live the more and more amazed I am at Patton's genius.

[sidewinder]

Just giving this beauty a listen after it has been stuck in the racks for far too long.

Far better than my recollections from the last time I heard this. Grooves lick heck with fine George Braith and Tommy Turrentine is a good fit with some of the tracks. Recommended !

Wonder why it stayed unreleased for so long? (presumably they had a large backlog of good Patton material at Blue Note in the early 60s).

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Just giving this beauty a listen after it has been stuck in the racks for far too long.

Far better than my recollections from the last time I heard this. Grooves lick heck with fine George Braith and Tommy Turrentine is a good fit with some of the tracks. Recommended !

Wonder why it stayed unreleased for so long? (presumably they had a large backlog of good Patton material at Blue Note in the early 60s).

It was only John's second album. I think "Along came John" sold so well, they decided not to issue this for a bit, then along came "The way I feel" and you couldn't issue "Blue John" when you had that album waiting in the wings. I used to get tremendously frustrated about this album, because it was illustrated on the backs of the subsequent albums. (Same with "Rollin' with Leo" which was on all the inner sleeves.)

Michael Cuscuna's dismissive comments about this on the Mosaic box are quite wrong. Patton's complete BN output should have been on a proper sized box. But I always think he doesn't have much of a feel for Soul Jazz. He's only ever produced two great Soul Jazz albums in his life, and they must have been accidents.

MG

[Alexander Hawkins]

Just giving this beauty a listen after it has been stuck in the racks for far too long.

Far better than my recollections from the last time I heard this. Grooves lick heck with fine George Braith and Tommy Turrentine is a good fit with some of the tracks. Recommended !

Wonder why it stayed unreleased for so long? (presumably they had a large backlog of good Patton material at Blue Note in the early 60s).

It was only John's second album. I think "Along came John" sold so well, they decided not to issue this for a bit, then along came "The way I feel" and you couldn't issue "Blue John" when you had that album waiting in the wings. I used to get tremendously frustrated about this album, because it was illustrated on the backs of the subsequent albums. (Same with "Rollin' with Leo" which was on all the inner sleeves.)

Michael Cuscuna's dismissive comments about this on the Mosaic box are quite wrong. Patton's complete BN output should have been on a proper sized box. But I always think he doesn't have much of a feel for Soul Jazz. He's only ever produced two great Soul Jazz albums in his life, and they must have been accidents.

MG

I'm a real fan of Blue John. What I can't get over is how damn FAR OUT that first track is. George Braith is wonderful. I like the rest of the album, but the opener steals the show IMHO.

[Guest akanalog]

does anyone else feel that "accent on the blues" is A LOT better than "memphis to new york spirit"? i think it is the propensity of original compositions on AOTB compared to MTNYS. well actually no, that isn't it-since the second tune is a sweet "freedom jazz dance". and it definitely isn't the crappy sound quality of "accent" that makes it better. anyone feel this way?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

does anyone else feel that "accent on the blues" is A LOT better than "memphis to new york spirit"? i think it is the propensity of original compositions on AOTB compared to MTNYS. well actually no, that isn't it-since the second tune is a sweet "freedom jazz dance". and it definitely isn't the crappy sound quality of "accent" that makes it better. anyone feel this way?

I find it quite difficult to compare an album I've had for thirty-five years with one, or two really, done around the same time with similar personnel, that came out relatively recently. Some of what I feel about AOTB is definitely to do with it's being kind of an old friend. But "Rakin'" is and always will be a fabulous groove track, while "Capt Nasty" and "Village Lee" are both wonderful compositions. I think the compositions on MTNYS are perhaps a little less distinguished than those. On the other hand, the tracks on the two CDs which were intended for a third album, which in my own mind I think of as "The Dragon Slayer", are great. (These are the ones featuring George Coleperson.) I really wish they'd issued all six of these as one album; I think that would have been a classic!

MG

[Aggie87]

Does anybody have the Patton BN Comp "The Organization"? It's a UK only release, per allmusic.

I've got all of his BN leader recordings (and alot, if not most of his BN sideman stuff), but this compilation still catches my eye for some reason. I still need to track down his two DIW releases, and eventually the Nilva (hoping that gets a CD issue someday).

[Jim Alfredson]

I've got that. It's nice, but doesn't contain any new music. The flow is good, though, and it's a decent overview of his Blue Note output.