Yes

[Hardbopjazz]

I really like this band. I remember in 1991 going to a guitar convention on Long Island. Steve Howe was there for one of the guitar clinics. He  was hanging out by the Gibson arch tops. He started to play an unaccompanied version of "On Green Dolphin Street." The guy that was near me asked someone he was with, "If he can play that, why doesn't he play jazz?" Steve replied, "What makes you think I can't play jazz?"  

Also, their self titled album, "Yes" from 1969, there is a tune called, "Harold Land."  This makes me wonder if all the band members had an appreciation for jazz?

Edited December 22, 2016 by Hardbopjazz

[Scott Dolan]

2 hours ago, Milestones said:

I never had much Yes in my collection, and only album (so far) in my digital collection.  It's a group I had largely forgotten, but I can see value in re-exploring their best work.  

Was it a group of its time?  Is there a certain timeless quality?  Opinions will vary.

Oh, I find nothing timeless about them at all. All of their stuff sounds incredibly dated, and locked within that particular era. 

I think it's become harder and harder to find any timeless Rock/Pop music. Pink Floyd was for a long, long time. But not so much any more. 

Though I may have a more narrow definition of timeless music than others. 

[StarThrower]

If great sounding analog recordings are incredibly dated, then I guess I like that kind of dated, as opposed to crappy 80s digital dated electric drums and other freeze dried sounds.

[Scott Dolan]

It really has nothing to do with the mastering, or the medium. It has to do with the music itself. 

[Guy Berger]

9 hours ago, Milestones said:

Was it a group of its time?  Is there a certain timeless quality?  Opinions will vary.

I don't think those two properties are mutually exclusive.

8 hours ago, Hardbopjazz said:

Also, their self titled album, "Yes" from 1969, there is a tune called, "Harold Land."  This makes me wonder if all the band members had an appreciation for jazz?

Howe, Kaye and Bruford, absolutely; other members, not necessarily.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

one time I asked Rick about jazz.  he said besides a little trad jazz he knows nothing of playing jazz- hes really the real deal, classical background thru and thru!

[A Lark Ascending]

No music is 'timeless'. 

But some gets canonised, often not for musical reasons. 'Halls of Fame' seem one of the more awkward approaches to canonisation. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

look you dont have to like yes, it is my problem if i dont like that someone doesnt like yes. for me its not even really rock n roll, it ts the classical music of our time.  close to the edge has as much in common with classical music in terms of structure and compsition, as it has rock elements.  let me tell you about yes: watch alan 4 ft in back of his kit.  you dont understand what he has to do. he has to keep together, a song in an odd time signature, you got these fast classical piano runs going up and down, you have this angular guitar player soloing and the bass player is turned up louder than the guitar player and hes soloing too, and alan has to glue that all together.  its pretty nutz.  

I GOT A GOOD JAZZ -- YES STORY FOR YOU

one time before a special Yes interview q&a i had a ticket to....guess what i found at the record store?   a really good audiobook cd: buddy collette: a jazz biography.  it was a 2 cd set, buddy collette and his life in jazz in la.  my copy even had a photograph of buddy on stage, inside of it, and the booklet was autographed!!!

so at the Q&A someone asked him about guitar influences and its a good question but its steve howe, the legend is true-- its like when u ask brian wilson and he says "be my baby" you know he said chet atkins and went on about that but he also mentioned JIM HALL.  and so when i go to say hi after the q&a and im all steve check out what i found at the record store before i came, and i showed him the pic and im all yea buddy collette from chico hamiltons bands with jim hall and hes all oh yeah great player and i showed it to steve

[Joe]

Also, at their best, Yes were one of the finest live acts of their era. Even in the 90s, when the whole reunion tour thing was already getting more than a bit wearying, they were capable of great shows. That's when I really learned to appreciate them; they dusted off "Awaken" from GOING FOR THE ONE in support of UNION... at the time, I was not at all familiar with that track, and recall being rather blown away by a rendition I witnessed at the Starplex outdoor amphitheater here in Dallas.

[Scott Dolan]

9 hours ago, A Lark Ascending said:

No music is 'timeless'. 

But some gets canonised, often not for musical reasons. 'Halls of Fame' seem one of the more awkward approaches to canonisation. 

Hmmm...I'm not so sure about that assertion. For example, isn't Kind Of Blue timeless? Aren't most Classical pieces timeless? 

[7/4]

On 12/21/2016 at 5:05 PM, Aggie87 said:

Big Yes fan here.  

I pretty much agree with Guy's comment above that the Kaye era is underrated compared to what came later with Wakeman.  I like Wakeman (and loved him when I was 15), but as talented as he is, he seems somewhat of a one trick pony to me.

I'd agree with that. A few days ago, someone called Wakeman a genius - I had to disagree. I'd say Bruford or Fripp, yes.

Love the band, Close to the Edgew/America is the high point and then it drops off after Drama. Spotty quality control after Drama...it's a shame Peter Banks is left out of the HoF thing, they didn't have to wait until after Squire was dead.

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by 7/4

[felser]

4 hours ago, 7/4 said:

I'd agree with that. A few days ago, someone called Wakeman a genius - I had to disagree. I'd say Bruford or Fripp, yes.

Love the band, Close to the Edgew/America is the high point and then it drops off after Drama. Spotty quality control after Drama...it's a shame Peter Banks is left out of the HoF thing, they didn't have to wait until after Squire was dead.

 

Yeah, Banks must have really ticked off some of the other guys early on, as he has sort of totally been excised from the history of the band.  I really enjoyed his contributions to the early albums, as well as Kaye's.  While I wouldn't replace Howe or Wakeman with them, I didn't really sense any great musical need to replace either of them.  I admit they would have been a very different group had those changes not been made, but I think it would have still been something really good.  I utterly enjoy the Flash and Badger albums, almost right up there with the Yes albums.  The 'Time and  a Word' debacle must have taken a terrible toll on the group dynamics, the same way 'Ceremony' disaster did on Spooky Tooth.  And had that group followed up 'Spooky Two' with something equally great, we might talk about them a lot more today than we do.  At least Wright and Harrison got it patched up later on, unlike Yes with Banks.

 

6 hours ago, Joe said:

Also, at their best, Yes were one of the finest live acts of their era. Even in the 90s, when the whole reunion tour thing was already getting more than a bit wearying, they were capable of great shows. That's when I really learned to appreciate them; they dusted off "Awaken" from GOING FOR THE ONE in support of UNION... at the time, I was not at all familiar with that track, and recall being rather blown away by a rendition I witnessed at the Starplex outdoor amphitheater here in Dallas.

The Montreux concert from 2003 is great, atmosphere and music come together beautifully.  Love Montreux concert vibes in general, have DVD's of everyone from Chic to Yes to Suzanne Vega to Van Morrison to Charles Mingus.

[Milestones]

I'm sure we could go all day on the issue of "timeless."  For me, several tunes by Yes are timeless.  Sure, neither the group nor its best songs are not as timeless as The Beatles or Dylan or The Stones or The Who.  

I am quite certain that timeless song/compositions exist in every genre of music.

[JSngry]

In order for something to be timeless, wouldn't you have to be around when time is gone to see if it's still there?

[felser]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

In order for something to be timeless, wouldn't you have to be around when time is gone to see if it's still there?

We can meet up at the restaurant at the end of the universe to see how it works out.

Edited December 23, 2016 by felser

[Milestones]

Realistically, I think part of it is seeing/hearing the greatness of something that was created before you were born.  That way you remove the aspect of "I heard this when it came out" and "I associate this with my childhood or adolescence."  Thus you have Mozart.  Thus you have (in my case) some of the work of Miles Davis--for example, Kind of Blue came out shortly before I was born.  

But in the end it's complicated, and as I've said views will differ.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Milestones

[Scott Dolan]

I've always thought the definition of timeless, when speaking of music, was that you can listen to something and not be able to tie it to a certain era. That's why I mentioned Pink Floyd as an example. They were so far ahead of their time that even now it's hard to listen to a lot of their music and say, "yep, quintessential 70's!" 

With Yes, unfortunately, I think you can. Not that any of it is bad, it just really shows its age. 

Oddly enough, my favorite tune of theirs is City Of Love from the otherwise horrendous Big Generator. That song would be a good example of timeless, as you could easily image it having come from the 70's, 80's, and 90's. 

[JSngry]

4 hours ago, felser said:

We can meet up at the restaurant at the end of the universe to see how it works out.

Will we be hungry then? And if so, what'll be on the menu?

Most importantly - will we need to tip?

[Scott Dolan]

Tip? Sure, why not? You can't take it with you. Neither can they. Be a badass and go 120%. They'll never forget you. Or remember, for that matter. 

Lots of Pink Floyd on the jukebox for your listening pleasure. Don't scrimp on The Final Cut. It's end of the universe with a beat! 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Scott Dolan

[JSngry]

The whole thing about "timeless" and "classic" and all that stuff...the older I get, the more silly it seems, I mean, something that's not yet 50 (or even 100) years old, by what vanity do we convince ourselves that it's going to be appreciated for the remainder of time? As long as there's _____, the music of _____ will live? How is that supposed to work, exactly? Is that a promise or a threat?

Maybe both, maybe we won't be afforded the luxury of not having the music of _____ kept in our faces no matter where we go.The conqueror's impulses never leave, once they have the land and the bodies, they then go for the minds, and they do use all senses to get there, including the ears.

Now we have recordings on demand, hell, without demand. Before that we had recordings by choice/affordability. Before that we just had manuscript. Before that we just had live performances and other oral traditions. The historical trend is away from self-determined relevancy towards an strongly "suggested" consensus, only some of which appears organically.

Timeless? Listen for the sound of a wounded heart screaming in anguish, or a crazy person laughing in delirium. Listen for the sound, if you can find it, of a people who sing the songs they sing the way they sing them because that's the only way they've ever heard them sung )or think it is...). There's your timelessness (at least as it pertains to humans). Anything on a record or a piece of paper, that's a commodity. It might be other things, but documentation for the purpose of preservation automatically means that whoever controls the documentation guides the preservation, including the guesswork of trying to conform to an orthodoxy of perception over actual comprehension.

A "timeless quality", can only exist as long as something exists to present it to a people who are there to have it presented, and then only if they are there in such a way so as to be disposed to embracing whatever that quality is. That's a helluva whole lot of specifics to impose on something as non-specific as "time", so...good luck with all that.

Traditions are not guaranteed survival, cultures damn sure aren't, and humans are not required for creation to sustain itself. If time is indeed a construct of limited human consciousness, then how the hell does anything having a "timeless quality" or some such amount to too much more than a further restriction of an already restricted premise?

Earlier this week, I hear Sonny Rollins playing "Winter Wonderland" in Kroger. Once I did the math of who owns what and how this got there, was I left with anything else or provable, quantifiable value? I mean, it made me laugh like hell to hear that music just...melting all over Kroger, but if anybody else besides me noticed, it only has life there for as long as somebody puts it there. And at some point, I'd expect somebody to say, hey, what is it with this weirdass melting Christmas song, get that shit out of here! And then, hey, so much for "timelessness", right?

In the meadow we will build a snowman.

We'll pretend that he is Parson Brown.

He'll say "Are you married?"

We'll say "No, man!

But you can do the job while you're around."

 

[felser]

Makes me think of the old Ray Davies lyric:

You can see all the stars as you walk down Hollywood Boulevard
Some that you recognize, some that you've hardly even heard of
People who worked and suffered and struggled for fame
Some who succeeded and some who suffered in vain

[JSngry]

Just saying, "standing the test of time" is a trailing indicator always, a predictive one speculatively. At best.

[Milestones]

I guess it would be better to remove "timeless," as this is a term suggestive of infinity.  Maybe we should think in terms of "multi-generational"--that the music survives/endures over 3 or 4 generations and many decades.  Thus you have many fans, singers, musicians who continue to keep alive the likes of Miles, Trane, Sinatra, Hendrix, etc.  

Certainly one has to feel that the works of Shakespeare and Mozart, having survived for centuries, will not be vanishing any time soon.  Some 20th Century artists may have the same lasting power.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Milestones

[l p]

i'd maybe revisit a couple of the songs from the first 5 albums if the record company erraced all of jon anderson's vocals. or maybe that's already an option on the remastered cd's.

"Sharp distance
How can the wind with its arms all around me
Sharp distance
How can the wind with so many around me"

 

 

[felser]

3 hours ago, l p said:

i'd maybe revisit a couple of the songs from the first 5 albums if the record company erraced all of jon anderson's vocals. or maybe that's already an option on the remastered cd's.

"Sharp distance
How can the wind with its arms all around me
Sharp distance
How can the wind with so many around me"

 

 

I think in that song the lyrics are meant to be musical, they SOUND really good in the flow of that recording.  And on whole, they have some pretty interesting threads.  R.E.M. took the same approach in their early albums ("Cuyahoga" being a prime example).  Worked/works for me.

"Heart Of The Sunrise"
 

Love comes to you and you follow
Lose one on to the Heart of the Sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with its arms all around me

Lost on a wave and then after
Dream on on to the Heart of the Sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decide
Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the Heart of the Sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with its arms all around me
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city

Lost in their eyes as you hurry by
Counting the broken ties they decided

Straight light moving and removing
SHARPNESS of the colour sun shine
Straight light searching all the meanings of the song
Long last treatment of the telling that
relates to all the words sung
Dreamer easy in the chair that really fits you

Love comes to you and then after
Dream on on to the Heart of the Sunrise
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the sun with its arms all around me
SHARP-DISTANCE
How can the wind with so many around me
I feel lost in the city