Sacred music

[papsrus]

I had been listening to a good deal of baroque over the summer, and dovetailing with that, various sacred musics. Being the heathen that I am, I’ve been kind of stumbling around in the desert with no guidance whatsoever, tripping over things by chance more than anything … which is the way it goes mostly anyways.

 

Beethoven’s Missa Solemnis has been a revelation, truly an amazing piece of music that should be regarded alongside the best music that he produced; as well Mozart’s Requiem; Bruckner’s Te Deum; Bach’s Mass in B minor. 

 

How did I miss all this until now? I mean, I was aware, but not really “aware.”

 

I’m currently engrossed in Ensemble Correspondances' forays into Moulinie and Charpentier motets, to turn back to the baroque roots of all this. Beautiful.

 

Realizing that the religious underpinnings of much “classical” music (or perhaps music in general; thinking of the church’s influence on jazz) should have been obvious for anyone who cared to take notice (I seek absolution on the matter here), and realizing that the term “sacred music” spans an enormous period of time, I nonetheless will take a leap of faith that some of you may have recommendations (most welcome) or observations or broader insights / revelations to share.

 

Apologies for all the corny puns, now tell it to the congregation. …

Edited September 7, 2016 by papsrus
tiny type

[HutchFan]

Aside from the ones that you've already mentioned, here are a few of my faves:

- Charles Ives: All of the Psalm settings for chorus -- particularly Psalm 90 (one of Ives' absolute masterpieces, I think); also "From the Steeples and the Mountains"

- Hector Berlioz: Grande messe des morts, Op. 5 and L'enfance du Christ, Op. 25

- Maurice Duruflé: Requiem

 

 

EDIT:
I just found the Gregg Smith Singers' recording of Ives' Psalm settings on YT.  To my knowledge, these particular recordings have never been reissued in any digital format. That's unfortunate because they are EASILY the best versions of this music that I've ever heard. 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by HutchFan

[StarThrower]

There's a gazillion works to listen to. Here's one I really like. In fact I like most of what I've heard by Szymanowski.

 

[A Lark Ascending]

Janacek - Glagolitic Mass. Not sure that Janacek was that religious (if religious at all) but this one knocked my socks off when I first heard it at a Prom in the mid-70s. Unusual harmonies, archaic language, wonderful choruses, some spectacular organ. 

Britten - War Requiem. Again, Britten tended to use the structural and cultural traditions of Anglican music rather than being driven by religious belief. Good one to hear live as it has different 'planes' in orchestra and vocals that can be arranged to bring out the antiphonal effects. I heard it at an anniversary of the first performance in Coventry Cathedral back in the 80s. 

Holst - The Hymn of Jesus. Another oddball one - if you think of Holst as 'The Planets' this one will give you a different perspective. More Byzantine than Anglican sacred music. 

Brahms - A German Requiem. Another 'secular' take on the sacred tradition. Only got to know this a few years back. Absolutely beautiful piece. 

Tallis, Byrd through to Purcell are full of riches. Not music I know well but has been finding its way back to the CD player more and more (especially Purcell). 

Elgar - 'The Dream of Gerontius', 'The Kingdom', 'The Apostles'. Gerontius in particular has some wonderful music. The text can be hard to take but that might have more to do with my 'issues' as a lapsed Catholic with a very devout piece. 

And then there's Handel....

[papsrus]

Hutch, I will seek out the Ives, thanks. I believe there was some mention of it on the American Composers thread? 

Sampling the Szymanowski now. Beautiful.

Bev: Brahms, yes. Will look for the others. Interested in hearing Holst, as admittedly when I think "Holst" I think Planets. That needs to change. And Elgar, need to dig that up. Thanks.

I was listening last night to some stuff from the Celibidache Sacred Music box -- the Faure Requiem, which is orchestrated in this instance for full orchestra and choir. A first version apparently was composed for a much smaller ensemble and without choir. Although I haven't listened to that first version, reviews seem to characterize it as a much "lighter," perhaps more elegant piece, and intentionally so, as it was Faure's reaction to some of the big orchestra, "heavy" Romantic pieces that preceded it. 

Also listened to Verdi's Requiem. Bit of an odd duck, this one. Celibidache apparently had some reservations about the whole thing -- how to interpret some of Verdi's score notes -- and although my listening may have been colored somewhat by reviews that characterize the piece as a little unfocused, it does seem to lack a certain heft. To say that it meanders or gets lost would be too much, but I did get the sense in certain passages that they were just sort of trying to get to the next section. Also, there's a certain "Verdi-ness" to the piece that veers toward a kind of lilting, Italian operatic vibe. ... I don't know, just seems kind of out of place? Forced?

Perhaps Celibidachi's spacious tempi didn't help in the Verdi either. Although more generally, I think his approach does allow these sacred pieces to breathe, and lets the music perhaps reveal itself in ways that otherwise may not be apparent. In the case of Verdi, I'm guessing more brisk might help.

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2016 by papsrus
typo

[A Lark Ascending]

Never got on with the Verdi Requiem (my loss entirely). I draw a blank with Verdi full stop. The Faure Requiem is lovely.

Another to consider - Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms (by chance I listened to that this morning). A Mass too. 

'Sacred Music' was very big in Britain in the 19th and early 20thC. Apparently when the monasteries got clobbered by Henry VIII somehow choirs were kept on at various cathedrals and abbeys. Most of the major composers wrote choral pieces - they seemed to have a popularity beyond a knowing cognoscenti. Mendelssohn's 'Elijah' was a huge hit in Victorian times (not one I've heard).  

This book came out quite recently dealing with the English side:

I have it on my to read shelf - hope to get a bit more of a systematic understanding from it. Much as I love the sound of medieval and early modern choral music I don't find it easy to sit and listen to. My brain is very goal orientated! 

[soulpope]

23 hours ago, papsrus said:

 

 

I’m currently engrossed in Ensemble Correspondances' forays into Moulinie and Charpentier motets, to turn back to the baroque roots of all this. Beautiful.

 

 

Enjoy ....

[soulpope]

[paul secor]

1 hour ago, soulpope said:

Enjoy ....

Thanks for posting the video link and to papsrus for the links to the recordings - wonderfully enchanting music.

[papsrus]

Ordered these three yesterday:

Bach: 6 Favorite Cantatas, Joshua Rifkin & Bach Ensemble 

Monteverdi: Vestpro della Beata Vergine, William Christie & Les Arts Florissants

Bach: Cantates For Alto, Philippe Herreweghe, Orchestre du Collegium Vocale

 

The first seems to be a bit of a love-it-or-hate-it recording, with soloists singing choral parts and a somewhat rigid approach. 

I'm just sort of starting to drill down a bit into the music of Christie and Les Arts Florissants, and was intrigued by a recent thread here on Mondeverde's vespers, all of which led me to the second disc.

The third recording I landed on while looking for Bach cantatas that leaned more toward the brighter/joyful side of things. We'll see. ... 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by papsrus
typo

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, papsrus said:

 

Very good ....

[jeffcrom]

I like that Rifkin 6 Favorite Cantatas a lot. It sounds very natural to my ears, not mannered at all.

This is wonderful - Stravinsky Sacred Works:

[mikeweil]

Anybody interested in Carpentier's music should check out this disc:

http://www.encelade.net/index.php/fr/hikashop-menu-for-products-listing/product/24-motets-pour-une-princesse

There are dozens of intimate sacred works he composed for his benefactor, the Princess of Joinville, better known as Mademoiselle de Guise, where he found employment when the court was practically hijacked by Lully. Beautiful music. Excellently performed, enlightening commentary. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by mikeweil

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, mikeweil said:

Anybody interested in Carpentier's music should check out this disc:

http://www.encelade.net/index.php/fr/hikashop-menu-for-products-listing/product/24-motets-pour-une-princesse

There are dozens of intimate sacred works he composed for his benefactor, the Princess of Joinville, better known as Mademoiselle de Guise, where he found employment when the court was practically hijacked by Lully. Beautiful music. Excellently performed, enlightening commentary. 

Looks intriguing ....

[papsrus]

Yah. ... Sacred indeed.

 

 

Will check it out, thnx

[mikeweil]

The latest Charpentier release, again an excellent performance:

[Larry Kart]

A decade or more ago I caught Herve Niquet and his band playing Charpentier in the Church de Invalides in Paris. Unforgettable the way the sounds rose up to the church's very high domed ceiling and intertwined along the way. It occurred to me at the time that Charpentier was the greatest master of literal musical space before Morton Feldman.

[mikeweil]

You're a lucky guy ...

[T.D.]

I came across the following box (on the Ricercar label) by accident, while searching for something else. It looked so compelling that I had to order it!

[Added: Not all the music is sacred (some of the secular stuff is even off-color), but there are a lot of excellent masses.]

Review and track listing here

Edited January 16, 2017 by T.D.