Darcy James Argue and others on Bob Brookmeyer

[fasstrack]

Wonderful tributes to his writing and personage by Argue and colleagues including Jim Hall, Clark Terry, Maria Schneider and Jim Mcneeley. I thought it a great read:

http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/celebration-remembering-a-tribute-to-bob-brookmeyer/ 

[ghost of miles]

Thanks for posting that... Brookmeyer does seem like an unsung influence on a number of younger bandleaders today.

[fasstrack]

I think he is 'sung'. Maria Schneider and Jim McNeeley acknowledge his impact on them all the time. Can't speak for the younguns...

[six string]

Thanks for that link Fasstrack.  I enjoyed that a lot.

[fasstrack]

He could be very dark, intensely critical. I wanted to study with him myself, but was afraid of his mouth. We discussed it, but Vermont (I think that's where he lived) was too far anyways. Woulda made a man outta me...

[AllenLowe]

I admire him though it bothers me that, like a lot of the 1950s progressives, he could not accept a lot of the 1960s avant garde. I understand the reasons for this - hell, Johnny Carisi and Lee Konitz were/are the same, among many others - but he could get a little nasty about some of the players and composers who were less schooled than he (Carisi had the same hostility). And I think that's the key - these guys and players were a bit more 'by the book,' meaning they had much more theoretical basis for their work than, say, Hemphill, and they resented unschooled musicians getting greater amounts of - or really any - attention, when they had worked so hard to devise very formal systems. It is unfortunate, and it cuts across styles - hell, I've even heard Knepper talk very cynically about Mingus' very hit-or-miss techniques. And of course Mingus thought the avant gardists were largely phonies and charlatans. And I daresay I myself dealt with a bit of internal static when I worked with guys with formal musical educations who were bothered that I got better reviews than they did.

Edited August 30, 2016 by AllenLowe

[fasstrack]

5 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

I admire him though it bothers me that, like a lot of the 1950s progressives, he could not accept a lot of the 1960s avant garde. I understand the reasons for this - hell, Johnny Carisi and Lee Konitz were/are the same, among many others - but he could get a little nasty about some of the players and composers who were less schooled than he (Carisi had the same hostility). And I think that's the key - these guys and players were a bit more 'by the book,' meaning they had much more theoretical basis for their work than, say, Hemphill, and they resented unschooled musicians getting greater amounts of - or really any - attention, when they had worked so hard to devise very formal systems. It is unfortunate, and it cuts across styles - hell, I've even heard Knepper talk very cynically about Mingus' very hit-or-miss techniques. And of course Mingus thought the avant gardists were largely phonies and charlatans. And I daresay I myself dealt with a bit of internal static when I worked with guys with formal musical educations who were bothered that I got better reviews than they did.

He was more than a little nasty. I don't know how much jealousy had to do with it. I didn't know Bob, nor was I inside his head.

I think a at least some of the resentment may be justified. Eric Dolphy was a MF and a virtuoso. A lot of other free players weren't. I don't know enough about the composers to comment. But you're supposed to study and learn what the hell you're doing, whatever the pursuit. Knowledge is power, and the days of seat-of-the-pants artistry are long gone. There aren't many geniuses out there, and they have to study, too. I seriously doubt that Mingus was 'hit-or-miss'. Trial-and-error, maybe, but that goes under the rubric of stretching and that's good. Jimmy Raney, a pretty fair composer himself, used to tell me 'art is controlled emotion'. I took that to mean it's a blend of intuition and craft. I don't know about 'formal systems' myself, and have, as a composer, been a bit suspicious of them. But whatever works works.

Formal education isn't the only kind, either. Gil Evans was tremendously autodidactic. He took scores home from the library to study. No excuses...

Edited August 30, 2016 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

I like cranky people and I like happy people. I like studied people and I like intuitive people  What can I say, I'm a people person!

[AllenLowe]

as for schooling; personally I am grateful to jazz because in any other form I would have been sent away years ago; it is the one format that might be considered an art that I can fit into, self-taught and untutored that I am. I always felt that players like Brookmeyer didn't really understand this.

[fasstrack]

4 hours ago, AllenLowe said:

as for schooling; personally I am grateful to jazz because in any other form I would have been sent away years ago; it is the one format that might be considered an art that I can fit into, self-taught and untutored that I am. I always felt that players like Brookmeyer didn't really understand this.

I had bandstand schooling, street schooling, formal schooling and self-schooling---and still have volumes to learn. My teachers were giants in my view. 

There's room for everybody and everything in jazz and art. Except bullshitters...

Edited August 30, 2016 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

What i don't dig is somebody who really has nothing more than a "concept" who then depends/expect the surrounding players to bring ALL the elevation. That's a ginormous drag.

Other than that, hell, if somebody has something to say and is without a doubt trying to say it specifically, let them say it. Nobody has everything, and nobody can be everybody. There will always be hype, but just...don't believe it. And don't believe the rebuttalists either, be your own damn decider.

What's funny is that Brookemeyer and Clark Terry were in so many different trenches together for so many years, yet they came out of them with completely different dispositions.

Pieces of the puzzle. 

[fasstrack]

I remember an interview now with Jimmy Knepper in DB where he said Mingus never actually 'wrote' anything. I remember his exact words: 'Nothing about notation or accuracy. He wrote a note for alto that the guy was straining to play, and I said that would be a lot easier for trumpet. Oh, er, I wanted that 'strained' sound. Bullshit'.

I played with him once when I was a kid. He was a bit of a crank, so...

[Larry Kart]

I remember once Brookmeyer on his site tearing into French hornist Tom Varner because he couldn't play "even eighth notes."

[fasstrack]

He also said Chick Corea was a 'lightweight', Terence Blanchard needed 'half-valve surgery' and wondered if Charlie Parker was a 'good idea'. His most venomous tirades were directed at Wynton and Stanley, but let's not go there.

At the same time, the people he admired, like Bill Finegan, he truly worshipped and was a true friend to. After Bill's wife died he called him every day. We got together to get Finegan a lifetime achievement award from ASCAP (he and Johnny Mandel did all the heavy lifting). And he really pushed his students. He wanted them to lose sleep over the charts and wear their brains out doing better...

Edited August 30, 2016 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

Is there anybody here who can run a query on how many record Brookmeyer and Terry were on together?