Clare Fischer Discography

[Clunky]

On 26/05/2018 at 3:15 PM, mikeweil said:

 

 

A mono UK copy appeared today in the mail. Thanks for the recommendation, this is a very fine set and my first LP by Shearing!

[mikeweil]

[Teasing the Korean]

On May 30, 2018 at 2:33 PM, mikeweil said:

The woodwind writing is better than on Cal Tjader's LP from the same year. 

Do you really think so?  I've always loved both albums.  The money cut on the Tjader is track four, IIRC, an exotica track with wordless female vocals.  The woodwinds on that track are really nice.

[mikeweil]

I will re-listen this afternoon and compare.

[mikeweil]

I think the big difference in Fischer's arrangements for Tjader and Shearing is that he used them for theme statements and backgrounds for Tjader, but treated them as an independent counterpart for Shearing and thematic material on the Shearing album. Plus, the moods and grooves in the Shearing album are more diversified (program your player to just the Brazilian Tjader tracks - #1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12 - and you will get the idea).

It's all much more worked out in detail with Shearing, who often weaves his solos around the woodwind parts or is composed into them, while Tjader plays solo over the rhythm section alone, and his theme playing is more or less in unison with the woodwinds, or they play unobtrusive parts behind him. Maybe what the producer asked for. OTOH Tjader was not as good as Shearing in playing written parts. 

The tunes by Mexican composer Mario Ruiz Armengol on the Tjader album are a completely different pair of shoes and much more challenging for an arranger. I always listen to the two groups of pieces separately. If you do so, you might appreciate Ardeen de Camp's vocals better.

Edited June 7, 2018 by mikeweil

[Teasing the Korean]

7 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I think the big difference in Fischer's arrangements for Tjader and Shearing is that he used them for theme statements and backgrounds for Tjader, but treated them as an independent counterpart for Shearing and thematic material on the Shearing album. Plus, the moods and grooves in the Shearing album are more diversified (program your player to just the Brazilian Tjader tracks - #1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12 - and you will get the idea).

It's all much more worked out in detail with Shearing, who often weaves his solos around the woodwind parts or is composed into them, while Tjader plays solo over the rhythm section alone, and his theme playing is more or less in unison with the woodwinds, or they play unobtrusive parts behind him. Maybe what the producer asked for. OTOH Tjader was not as good as Shearing in playing written parts. 

The tunes by Mexican composer Mario Ruiz Armengol on the Tjader album are a completely different pair of shoes and much more challenging for an arranger. I always listen to the two groups of pieces separately. If you do so, you might appreciate Ardeen de Camp's vocals better.

Thanks for the detailed reply.  I have listened more to the Tjader album mainly because I have it on CD, whereas the Shearing I have only on LP.  I just remembered liking the woodwind arrangements on both, and then finding out they were both Clare Fischer, and from the same period.  I should spend more time with the Shearing album - with or without a cocktail - to get a better idea of the contrast.

Did you listen to Tjader track 4, and exotica track, and do you like that one? 

[Clunky]

you guys are getting me hooked on this material. The Tjader cd is en route.

[mikeweil]

Now listening to the other "half album" contained in the Tjader LP (tracks 2, 4, 7, 9, 11), with the music of Mario Ruiz Armengol - some of the most beautiful melodies in all of Latin American music. Notice that Tjader solos much less often than on the Brazilian tracks, and the woodwinds are used more like on the Shearing sessions, play countermelodies to themes - not as sophisticated as in the latter, but very close. 

IMO Tjader's album makes a better impression when you listen to either the Brazilian or the Mexican tracks. The latter are more unified as they are all by one composer and written in the tradition of Mexican Boleros - I dislike terms like "Latin Jazz" or "Exotica" as they never do justice to the many styles covered and can keep you from taking a closer look. Armengol's music is unique, but his albums are hard to find. I have this one, which, paradoxically, comes along much jazzier - you can find it as an amazon download or on Spotify:

This includes two compositions Tjader covered. I can fully understand why Fischer was fascinated by his music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Ruiz_Armengol

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1272748-Mario-Ruiz-Armengol

Edited June 9, 2018 by mikeweil

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

17 hours ago, mikeweil said:

Now listening to the other "half album" contained in the Tjader LP (tracks 2, 4, 7, 9, 11), with the music of Mario Ruiz Armengol - some of the most beautiful melodies in all of Latin American music. Notice that Tjader solos much less often than on the Brazilian tracks, and the woodwinds are used more like on the Shearing sessions, play countermelodies to themes - not as sophisticated as in the latter, but very close. 

IMO Tjader's album makes a better impression when you listen to either the Brazilian or the Mexican tracks. The latter are more unified as they are all by one composer and written in the tradition of Mexican Boleros - I dislike terms like "Latin Jazz" or "Exotica" as they never do justice to the many styles covered and can keep you from taking a closer look. Armengol's music is unique, but his albums are hard to find. I have this one, which, paradoxically, comes along much jazzier - you can find it as an amazon download or on Spotify:

This includes two compositions Tjader covered. I can fully understand why Fischer was fascinated by his music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Ruiz_Armengol

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1272748-Mario-Ruiz-Armengol

 

what the hell- dawg im never gonna find this!

Edited June 10, 2018 by chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez

[Teasing the Korean]

22 hours ago, mikeweil said:

I dislike terms like "Latin Jazz" or "Exotica" as they never do justice to the many styles covered and can keep you from taking a closer look.

I have an exotica and a Latin jazz section.  I need to think in terms of genre to retrieve things on short notice, or I would never remember what I have.

Several Shades of Jade is filed in the exotica section.  Cal's Fantasy albums and some of the Verve are in the Latin Jazz Section.   Later Verve and Skye are in the Now Sound section.  

Now what you think of track 4, the exotica track with the wordless female vocals?  That is the money cut IMO.

Also, do you think that Joe Henderson may have subconsciously plagiarized the song that sounds like "Blue Bossa?"

Edited June 10, 2018 by Teasing the Korean

[Teasing the Korean]

On June 9, 2018 at 11:13 AM, mikeweil said:

Now listening to the other "half album" contained in the Tjader LP (tracks 2, 4, 7, 9, 11), with the music of Mario Ruiz Armengol - some of the most beautiful melodies in all of Latin American music. Notice that Tjader solos much less often than on the Brazilian tracks, and the woodwinds are used more like on the Shearing sessions, play countermelodies to themes - not as sophisticated as in the latter, but very close. 

IMO Tjader's album makes a better impression when you listen to either the Brazilian or the Mexican tracks. The latter are more unified as they are all by one composer and written in the tradition of Mexican Boleros - I dislike terms like "Latin Jazz" or "Exotica" as they never do justice to the many styles covered and can keep you from taking a closer look. Armengol's music is unique, but his albums are hard to find. I have this one, which, paradoxically, comes along much jazzier - you can find it as an amazon download or on Spotify:

Now what you think of track 4, the exotica track with the wordless female vocals?  That is the money cut IMO.

Also, do you think that Joe Henderson may have subconsciously plagiarized the song that sounds like "Blue Bossa?"

[HutchFan]

A few weeks ago, I ordered this Japanese import:

Any Clare Fischer fan needs to hear it.  The music AND sonics are OUTSTANDING.  

[Teasing the Korean]

When did "Carnavel" become "Joao," or vice versa?  Cal calls it "Joao" on the Soul Sauce album.  On my copy of Fischer's So Danco Samba album, it is listed as "Carnavel" on the label and rear cover, but "Joao" on the front cover. 

[mikeweil]

Perhaps they wanted to avoid a mixup with "Manha de Carnaval" by Luiz Bonfa. Charlie Byrd recorded a tune "Carnaval" for Riverside on his "Latin Impressions" LP in 1962, and this is the Bonfa tune.

[mikeweil]

On 10.6.2018 at 3:54 PM, Teasing the Korean said:

Also, do you think that Joe Henderson may have subconsciously plagiarized the song that sounds like "Blue Bossa?"

"Blue Bossa" was Kenny Dorham's tune. Now could he have heard the "So Danço Samba" LP? No idea .... 

[Teasing the Korean]

2 hours ago, mikeweil said:

"Blue Bossa" was Kenny Dorham's tune. Now could he have heard the "So Danço Samba" LP? No idea .... 

The song that sounds like "Blue Bossa" is on "Contemporary Music of Mexico and Brasil."  It may be the first or second track. 

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, mikeweil said:

"Blue Bossa" was Kenny Dorham's tune. Now could he have heard the "So Danço Samba" LP? No idea .... 

I believe Fischer's album was recorded more than a year after the Henderson album, so Dorham would have to have heard the tune elsewhere in that case. The tune was also included on the "Hi-los Happen to Bossa Nova" album from 1963, so maybe there? There it seems to have been titled "Carnaval (João)". 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Daniel A

[mikeweil]

The Tjader LP was recorded February to May, 1962. Henderson's "Page One" was recorded in June, 1963. "So Danço Samba" was recorded December, 1964. Exact release dates of these albums are hard to find, but the Tjader should have been out by the time Dorham recorded with Henderson.

TTK, you're thinking about "Vai Querer"?

[Teasing the Korean]

16 hours ago, mikeweil said:

The Tjader LP was recorded February to May, 1962. Henderson's "Page One" was recorded in June, 1963. "So Danço Samba" was recorded December, 1964. Exact release dates of these albums are hard to find, but the Tjader should have been out by the time Dorham recorded with Henderson.

TTK, you're thinking about "Vai Querer"?

Yes, that's the track.  I think we have somehow mixed "So Danço Samba" into the conversation about "Blue Bossa/Vai Querer."  I brought up "So Danço Samba" separately to address the Clare Fischer tune with two titles. 

[mikeweil]

Have the Reveleation issue of this for a long time, but finally got me a copy of the recent German Sonorama reissue.

Clare Fischer was delighted by this, and I think his ideas about woodwind accompaniment of bossa nova tunes might have been influenced or at least affirmed by Luit de Andrade's creative use of two bassoons and a flute or clarinet on this album.