JSngry Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 I do hope that Mr. Cuscuna has a developing relationship with the Max Roach estate. 4 hours ago, Mark Stryker said: I spent a lot of time this spring researching and writing a 5,500-word essay about Yusef for my book, and it's still not clear to me how he managed to record for so many labels simultaneously in an era of exclusive contracts. Any indication that he did the Tony Scott thing and did the sessions on his own dime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stryker Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, JSngry said: Any indication that he did the Tony Scott thing and did the sessions on his own dime? No. In Yusef's autobiography, he notes that he was not under an exclusive contract to any one company in those initial recording years, but he doesn't say how or why these companies allowed him to act as an independent agent when they did not do so, to my knowledge, for anyone else. The Savoy contract came first based on a recommendation from an Associated Press reporter, who heard Yusef's band at Klein's in Detroit, and then told Savoy's Ozzie Cadena in New York -- who agreed to record that band without hearing them. Yusef also says that a demo tape he previously sent to Blue Note was rejected. It would be interesting to known if any of these contracts or paperwork still exists among Yusef's personal papers -- doubtful, but you never know. I haven't gone that deep to try to get access ... Edited July 17, 2016 by Mark Stryker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Maybe it's as simple as that Yusef was sane, sober, sensible, and handled his business accordingly, got the dates without the traps. Did Yusef also have/keep his publishing during those years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, JSngry said: Maybe it's as simple as that Yusef was sane, sober, sensible, and handled his business accordingly, got the dates without the traps. Did Yusef also have/keep his publishing during those years? He was born in 1921, so in his mid-30's by 1957. And he lived to be 92-93, so maybe didn't beat up his body too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I mean, the nature of the music business is always that you get fucked somehow, if you know what I mean, but it also seems that if you come to the game correct and with the ability to discuss business AS business, you can be on equal enough footing for it to be a fair fucking, if you also know what I mean. Seems to me that Yusef, a BIG motherfucker who carried himself with pride, dignity, sobriety, and knowledge, most likely knew how to talk to the business people on their terms without backing down or being snowed or trying to game them. Here's what we'll do for you, and here's what we'll do it for. You will not fuck us at this point, nor will we fuck you. You'd be surprised how much can get done when it's a fair fucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 On 7/16/2016 at 8:29 PM, ghost of miles said: Jsngry: no previously unissued tracks. Big Beat Steve: all of the Leo Parker tracks that you mention are included. There's also a Gil Fuller Orchestra date that was done for Discovery in 1949 and then purchased by Savoy. what about National material (eg Eckstine) that was re-released on Savoy - is that going to be in the 10CD set? If I can recall correctly there were a number of unreleased Chaloff Savoy alternates circulating - remember reading about this a number of years ago - correct me if I'm wrong here (may have been someone else) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clunky Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I think this set might have great potential. I'll know better once the track listing is clear. A number of Savoy sessions were produced originally for other labels and secondly sessions such as Don Byas have a swing-bop feel so may or may not be included . I'll be hoping that Mosaic do a good number on the transfers . Comparing 'Rampage' by Allen Eager on 'Brorhers and mothers' the sound is really quite dull versus the bright clear sound on my original Savoy 78 of the same tune . The LP transfers on the twofer LPs are decent but I'm sure could be improved . Wonder if metal parts or mint acetates exist ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 On 7/18/2016 at 9:01 PM, JSngry said: You'd be surprised how much can get done when it's a fair fucking. You have captured the essence of one of my favorite business books: https://smile.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/0143118757/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1469044889&sr=8-1&keywords=getting+to+yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Hello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I probably have a lot of this but I'm interested and i did buy the Dial set so I'm likely to buy this one too. Like others I want to see the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 Just an update that this set's release date is now expected to be sometime in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 On 17/07/2016 at 11:50 PM, Mark Stryker said: No. In Yusef's autobiography, he notes that he was not under an exclusive contract to any one company in those initial recording years, but he doesn't say how or why these companies allowed him to act as an independent agent when they did not do so, to my knowledge, for anyone else. The Savoy contract came first based on a recommendation from an Associated Press reporter, who heard Yusef's band at Klein's in Detroit, and then told Savoy's Ozzie Cadena in New York -- who agreed to record that band without hearing them. Yusef also says that a demo tape he previously sent to Blue Note was rejected. It would be interesting to known if any of these contracts or paperwork still exists among Yusef's personal papers -- doubtful, but you never know. I haven't gone that deep to try to get access ... People who can turn a profit can do that. Sonny Stitt didn't have a recording contract from the early mid-fifties until he died. And made more albums for which he was PAID than just about any other jazzman. Even earlier, Rev J M Gates' manager wouldn't let him sign a contract, so he recorded for practically every company around in the 1920s. I do hope the alliance between Mosaic and Savoy Jazz indicates that Muse material owned by Savoy might be a possibility for Mosaic box treatment. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 How about a Savoy Gospel set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 hour ago, The Magnificent Goldberg said: People who can turn a profit can do that. Sonny Stitt didn't have a recording contract from the early mid-fifties until he died. And made more albums for which he was PAID than just about any other jazzman. Even earlier, Rev J M Gates' manager wouldn't let him sign a contract, so he recorded for practically every company around in the 1920s. I do hope the alliance between Mosaic and Savoy Jazz indicates that Muse material owned by Savoy might be a possibility for Mosaic box treatment. MG I think it would be a possibility seeing as a Woody Shaw Muse set has already been released. . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Joe said: How about a Savoy Gospel set? I believe that Malaco holds the rights to the Savoy gospel recordings - at least they did the last I knew. A Savoy gospel set would have to be a "Best of" or focused on one artist. There's just waaaaay too much material there for a comprehensive box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 hours ago, paul secor said: I believe that Malaco holds the rights to the Savoy gospel recordings - at least they did the last I knew. A Savoy gospel set would have to be a "Best of" or focused on one artist. There's just waaaaay too much material there for a comprehensive box. Yeah, I wrote to Mosaic some years ago, proposing a Caravans set of United and Savoy material (Savoy bought up all the United gospel material and left the secular stuff for others - Delmark?), but they never responded. So many superstars in that group... But I doubt if Malaco would have leased the stuff anyway. Their output is MUCH less than fifteen-twenty years ago now. Rev James Cleveland is another Savoy artist whose work merits a set. A lot of his albums are still available and some as downloads on Amazon. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 13, 2016 Report Share Posted September 13, 2016 A Caravans Mosaic? Or the equivalent by whatever somebody can do it right? That needs to happen, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 5 hours ago, JSngry said: A Caravans Mosaic? Or the equivalent by whatever somebody can do it right? That needs to happen, imo. Bear Family, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) Regarding the upcoming Mosaic Savoy BeBop box set: I hope Cuscuna & Co. plan to include the “rare” version of “Groovin’ High” with Dexter Gordon from the February 9 1945 Dizzy Gillespie session for Guild. The liner notes to the Savoy 3 CD set “Dizzy Gillespie: Odyssey 1945-1952” (released 2002) state this rare take of "Groovin' High" did not appear until the 1970s, when it was discovered on a mis-pressing of Guild 1001*. This rare take has since only appeared on bootlegs, to the best of my knowledge. Guild sessions under Gillespie’s leadership were apparently purchased by Musicraft, and then eventually came under the ownership of Savoy. Does this transfer of ownership chain apply to all of Guild’s “jazz” material? I’m bringing up this subject to see if I have the details right (corrections welcome), with a hope and plea that Mosaic is on the case for the first official reissue of this February 9 1945 “Groovin’ High.” The February 9 take is a great performance, and the sound quality of my bootleg CD's version is just fine. I'm sure Mosaic can find a better source and do much better... John *The February 28 1945 Gillespie session provided the take of "Groovin' High" chosen for Guild 1001, subsequently reissued many times on Savoy (including Savoy’s “Odyssey” 3 CD set, mentioned above). Edited September 14, 2016 by jdw font too large Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 2 hours ago, ghost of miles said: Bear Family, maybe? That would be sweet. Do they go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 They seem to go everywhere. Always think of Mosaic first. Perhaps an e-mail to them... MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 15 hours ago, JSngry said: That would be sweet. Do they go there? Once upon a time they did... not sure how many new big boxes they're doing these days, though. Like Mosaic, I think they've taken a hit from several different directions, including cheap bootlegged ripoffs of sets they've produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Maybe they need to service the truck stop market. What are some of the better pure Gospel sets they've done, "country" or "soul"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted September 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Bear Family box sets I've picked up a few over the years to be sure, including the Louis Jordan, both Nat King Coles, and the "Shot In The Dark" sets (Nashville Jumps and Tennessee Jive). Just recently the Johnny Cash Come Along And Ride This Train set, though I haven't gotten around to listening to it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Looks like they've yet to do a Gospel Artist-Specific set...the Caravans would be a monster place to start...until then, we have this: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Caravans/dp/B001PZ8IRQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473872894&sr=8-1&keywords=caravans+gospel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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