Frog, Hep, Jazz Oracle, Timeless, et.

[paul secor]

I know this has been done before, but with the state of the search function, it's very hard to find. I'm interested (as I'm sure others are) in getting recommendations for early jazz on Frog, Jazz Oracle, Hep, Timeless, and other labels that both present good but somewhat obscure music and do so in a proper fashion - excellent sound, historical background, etc.

I do have some favorites my own, but there are other folks here who are much more knowledgeable than I. Please post your recommended favorites from or comments about the above and similar labels. Many thanks.

 

[alankin]

A side note on searching: while the site's search feature isn't the best for finding threads, a Google search is can be pretty good.  For example, entering the following in the search bar will bring up some useful old threads:

       site:organissimo.org jazz oracle

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=site:organissimo.org+jazz+oracle

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by alankin

[paul secor]

Thanks. I actually did do that and found some old threads. I remembered a thread that combined recommendations for the labels I mentioned, but couldn't find it. I just thought that a new thread might work better. If people want to just bring up the old threads and add to them, that's fine with me.

Edited June 23, 2016 by paul secor

[Niko]

My impression was that since a few weeks ago the search function works properly again?

[jazzbo]

I think nearly every Jazz Oracle release is worth checking out, even those I've had low expectations for have been very interesting. But I definitely recommend the Red Nichols, the Jack Purvis, the Ben Pollocks, the Three Ts, and the Dorsey Bros.

[Big Beat Steve]

From what I have seen in their catalog I'd agree with Jazzbo, though I have bought only few of them (I am not a pre-Swing era jazz completist and would not need to replace what I already have so I've only bought a few CDs so far to fill gaps). There seems to be so much on 20s jazz bands on the CD reissue market that you just can get carried away once you get seriously started in that field.

However, one Jazz Oracle release I'd very, very, VERY much recommend urgently is BDW 8025: "Arkansas Shout - Swing/Western Swing/Blues Recorded in Hot Springs, Arkansas , 1937". Not only is this one of the few releases that goes beyond the usual time frame the label covers but it also reunites recordings by eight territory bands whose output is extremely hard to come by anywhere else (some of the tracks by the Original Yellow Jackets have been reissued on an LP on the Harrison label in the 70s but beyond that I don't know ...), let alone on original 78s (do you have any of them, Jeffcrom? ). So this release is not just a more systematic collation and better remastering of tracks reissued (in part) before but it really fills gaps in the collections of almost anybody interested in these under-the-radar territory bands. What some of these bands may lack in ultimate virtuosity they make up in enthusiasm. And it draws a fascinating picture of "crossover" styles between jazz, blues and (sometimes) hillbilly music as they happened in 1937.

The booklet is a gem too - and it shows that research on the background of these recordings sometimes really amounts to archaeology (literally ...).

Edited June 23, 2016 by Big Beat Steve

[paul secor]

2 hours ago, Niko said:

My impression was that since a few weeks ago the search function works properly again?

I haven't tried it lately. Will have to do so.

[Chuck Nessa]

Favorite Jazz Oracles:

Jelly Roll Morton Rarities - collects all of his non-solo recordings before he signed with Victor.

Oscar Celestin / Sam Morgan - mostly of interest for the wonderful Morgan titles.

Louisiana Rhythm Kings - Red Nichols groups with Teagarden, Goodman, Pee Wee, Rollini, Jimmy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, etc

Richmond Rarities - complete recordings of Alex Jackson, Red Perkins and most importantly Alphonso Trent and Zack Whyte.

[paul secor]

I've searched out the old Frog, Hep, Jazz Oracle, and Timeless threads and renewed them on the Reissues thread. All of them had been inactive for several years, so perhaps interested parties can add to the original thread.

I don't know whether this thread is still needed or if the older ones will do.

[JSngry]

21 hours ago, Big Beat Steve said:

...one Jazz Oracle release I'd very, very, VERY much recommend urgently is BDW 8025: "Arkansas Shout - Swing/Western Swing/Blues Recorded in Hot Springs, Arkansas , 1937". Not only is this one of the few releases that goes beyond the usual time frame the label covers but it also reunites recordings by eight territory bands whose output is extremely hard to come by anywhere else (some of the tracks by the Original Yellow Jackets have been reissued on an LP on the Harrison label in the 70s but beyond that I don't know ...), let alone on original 78s (do you have any of them, Jeffcrom? ). So this release is not just a more systematic collation and better remastering of tracks reissued (in part) before but it really fills gaps in the collections of almost anybody interested in these under-the-radar territory bands. What some of these bands may lack in ultimate virtuosity they make up in enthusiasm. And it draws a fascinating picture of "crossover" styles between jazz, blues and (sometimes) hillbilly music as they happened in 1937.

The booklet is a gem too - and it shows that research on the background of these recordings sometimes really amounts to archaeology (literally ...).

You've sold me on it. Hot Springs is a place our family has passed through and driven around any number of times while driving to other places. It's history is borderline-mythic, especially compared to its present, which is mundane in comparison...and perhaps by any standard, really. But random whiffs of the airs of unbridled opulence and indulgence are still breathable even from the local radio station that reaches out to the Interstate which does not pass through the city.

The booklet is very much anticipated. If it's like the few other Jazz Oracle products I've been pleased to own, it should be a delight.

Another area that at one time was a paradise of guilt-free-zoniness was the Galveston, Tx area. Were there territory/hotel bands that played the Texas Gulf Coast? Galveston, Houton, Port Arthur, etc.? If so, are there any documents such as Jazz Oracle provides?

[Big Beat Steve]

1 hour ago, JSngry said:

Another area that at one time was a paradise of guilt-free-zoniness was the Galveston, Tx area. Were there territory/hotel bands that played the Texas Gulf Coast? Galveston, Houton, Port Arthur, etc.? If so, are there any documents such as Jazz Oracle provides?

Glad to have been of service to you (but as it may have become apparent elsewhere on this forum, in addition to my interest in jazz from the 30s/40s I am very much a Western Swing fan too so part of this reissue strikes a chord with me in ways that may just not be that essential to others ...)

As for your final question, as you certainly know the line between jazz territory bands and "hot string bands" (aka Western Swing bands) active throughout the South often was rather a blurred one in those years and styles overlapped to quite some degree. I think Allen Lowe will be able to anwer your question in a much more profound manner, but for a starter, the Port Arthur Jubileers (later known as the Jubileers) whose recordings took place at the Rice Hotel in Houston, TX , in April, 1940, might fit the bill. The Rice Hotel seems to have been used on several occasions for "field recordings" in that area.

Their recordings are here (I do not have this particular CD, though):

https://www.amazon.com/Port-Arthur-Jubileers-Associates/dp/B00J9V2STC?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

This BACM label operating from the UK is a "labor of love" affair run by a handful of diehard country music fans but the fidelity may vary (some of it due to the digital sources used, it seems).

[six string]

Yes, Galveston was a hopping town, especially before the big hurricane in the early 1900s.  I forget the exact date but it practically wiped the city off the map.  When I lived there in the early 1980s I used to frequent an Italian restaurant owned and operated by a woman who used to run a brothel during the wild and wooly days of the 1950s/60s.   The gambling rooms/bars were out at the end of piers so if the cops came to bust them the house would get the signal from employees stationed at the entrance to the pier and trapdoors would open and the evidence went into the Gulf.  She had some great stories.  Wasn't it called The Wallstreet Of The West back in the day?

[kh1958]

The Galveston hurricane was in 1900.

[JSngry]

Hey, I ordered that Port Arthur thing just for the cover photo of the bandstand. That's a vanishing breed of stage, that low flat ceiling that leaves the sound nowhere to go but straight out into the room. For unamplified music in a non-auditorium, it can be wonderful. Perhaps coincidentally, there were a lot of them in East Texas, mostly oil-company "meeting halls"  that would serve as social centers for the companies' employees back when life was focused around "the company". Suitable for speaking and playing, no high ceilings/roof for the sound to get lost in, just project your sound and out it would go, unimpeded.

I also dig how Jimmie has an accordion handy, probably for the polkas.

[Big Beat Steve]

Speaking of venues and stages in your "neck of the woods",  are you familiar with this book?

https://www.amazon.com/Dance-Halls-Last-Calls-History/dp/1556229275/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466785083&sr=8-1&keywords=dance+halls+and+last+calls

The subtitle is a bit misleading, though. It is more about the dance halls than about the country music at large.

 

 

[JSngry]

Not familiar with that book, but am aware of the rich and varied assortment of such venues throughout the state. Have actually performed in a few on various wedding gigs, never as a member of a gigging country band (although some of the players hired for the bands who played those weddings were, through such interactions are greater personal appreciation of music and musicians realized!). Played one in particular that was as breathtaking in its reality as it was in its mystique.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/xdp03

Not much on the outside, and it really is in the proverbial "middle of nowhere", but inside, the beams are pretty much(?) intact from the original construction, and the floors are such that if you can't hear the noise of the dancer's feet as they dance, you're playing too damn loud!

I would take gigs like this just for the life experience, even if all I got to do was take solos on "Mustang Sally" & kin. For a person of my background and bent, they are experiences that I would not have otherwise, whole other worlds existing a handful of hours away. Don't want to "live there", but jesus, you talk about a richness of humanity, whoa!

 

[Big Beat Steve]

It's in the book. Page 182.

[JSngry]

It should be!

[paul secor]

I recently listened to:

Alex Hill: Ain't It Nice? (Timeless Historical 1- 050)

Richmond Rarities (Jazz Oracle 8008) - Thanks to Chuck for reminding me of this one, and another thanks for turning me on to the Alex Hill.

"Sizzling the Blues" - New Orleans 1927 - 1929 (Frog 5)

"Don't Leave Me Here" - New York Volume 3 (Frog 12)

Highly recommended to anyone interested in early jazz recordings.

[JSngry]

Been hitting Richmond Rarities the last few days, and the real revelation there has been Al Sears' bari work with Zack Whyte. "Jump" tenor has been the usual explanation I've heard of Al Sears, but no, that cat had that OLD Old School thing going on. Five Giant Smiling Light Bulbs Of Happiness for having that piece of the puzzle turned up/over.

[MomsMobley]

Sam Manning

Lingam Vitae is on Volume 2