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Wayne Shorter: The Blue Note albums Universal Italy set

CJ Shearn

By CJ Shearn
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CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

Posted
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I said in a previous post that I ordered this to  cheaply fill some major holes in my Shorter BN collection.  The 11 albums have been available (sans bonus tracks) in hi res for quite sometime.  Anyone who has this set, are the masterings a combination of 80's McMaster, Conns and RVG's or are these transfers from the 24/192 ones used to make the hi res and SHM editions?  As I said I'm not concerned about the mastering that much but the track listing on the Universal Italy site looks like a cut and paste job from previous versions.  Does this set have the corrected "Soothsayer"?

jazzbo Grand Master

jazzbo

Posted
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Those tapes may no longer exist. Michael Cuscuna told me that he gave the unreleased tapes of a Silver session that neither wanted to issue to Silver and they were destroyed. He may well have done the same with these (?)

bertrand Enthusiast

bertrand

Posted
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I am sure the tapes are still there.

It was never 100% clear to me that that was the reason it was never issued. I have heard multiple accounts.

I was sort of being tongue-in-cheek. I was wondering if this was one of those European 50-year copyright deals, but the later sessions do not turn 50 for another 4 years or so.

This is Universal Italy, so must be legit.

Bertrand.

jazzbo Grand Master

jazzbo

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We won't see this as long as Michael has any industry say. I'm probably as sure as you that the tapes aren't in the vault. Wayne may have them or they're dust.

Kevin Bresnahan Mentor

Kevin Bresnahan

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I've never heard that the tapes were destroyed, just that the session was "Duke Pearson's idea of a fucking record" (Shorter's words paraphrased by Cuscuna). I agree with Lon that we will probably never hear them as long as Cuscuna has any say. Although I have heard rumors that there are dupes of the master tapes floating around in the collector universe.

Edited by Kevin Bresnahan
CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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Similar to how there's tapes of the Blakey/JM's 1959 studio session with M&M that have floated around, right?  Anyway back to the Shorter Universal Italy set, it is legit, but anyone who has it, are they using the 24/192 masterings as sources or cobbled together pre existing ones?  It was released last year, so that's after the SHM's and hi res versions had been out.

mjzee Mentor

mjzee

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1 hour ago, Kevin Bresnahan said:

...we will probably never hear them as long as Cuscuna has say.

Now that BN is owned by Universal, I'm not sure Cuscuna has any say.

CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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3 hours ago, mjzee said:

Now that BN is owned by Universal, I'm not sure Cuscuna has any say.

Right.  He was  involved with the 75th Anniversary Japanese reissues, but other than that I don't think he's contributed much at all during the Don Was era BN thus far?  Wasn't he let go after Capitol-EMI sold the label?

Edited by CJ Shearn
jazzbo Grand Master

jazzbo

Posted
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I honestly think that Cuscuna has "say" in this matter to this day, he's influential in these matters. And that the tapes won't be available, ever. Can't say more by request, but reading between my lines and others I don't think the tapes still exist.

Edited by jazzbo
CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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Interestingly enough aren't most BN masters actually Dolby B dubs?  I thought many of the masters no longer exist?  Anyway anyone who has this set, what are the mastering sources? I will find out later on today I guess.

Kevin Bresnahan Mentor

Kevin Bresnahan

Posted
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I heard back from Cuscuna that the last he knew, the masters for that October 13, 1970 session were still in the vault, but he also added, "They will never come out unless Wayne’s says so. Not a good session at all."

jazzbo Grand Master

jazzbo

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Well, I was told a bit differently years ago and from what he told me many years ago I don't think Wayne will ever okay their release if they exist. And that's fine. We don't need to hear everything from anyone.

Edited by jazzbo
CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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I gotta agree with you Lon there.  What we have with Wayne's entire BN output and I include "Without a Net" is uniformly excellent, for curiosity sake the unissued session would be interesting but wouldn't add much.  I received the "Blue Note albums" set yesterday and its a combination of RVG's Conns and McMasters, without the corrected "Soothsayer" for some odd reason, so I bought the hi res version which sounds terrific.  Still, the Universal Italy set is a great way to fill gaps.

CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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GA, I got it from Amazon US, seller was Fulfillment Express US but filled by Amazon. it was $51 and change, free shipping.  Came in a day and a half and this is without Prime.  Gonna get the Petrucciani and Fresu sets next as I don't have any of that material.  No need for the Hancock on my end whatsoever, but I inexplicably did not own "Soothsayer", "Etcetera", "Adam's Apple", "Schizophrenia" "Super Nova", "Moto Grosso Feio" or "Odyssey of Iska" in any form, so I bought the Shorter set for that reason.  IMO the RVG of "Soothsayer" in the set is fine except for the mastering defect, why Blue Note didn't get the corrected version into this set is beyond me, but the hi res version sounds great. No tape squeal there. Sonically it's pretty similar to the RVG except the soundstage is a bit deeper. 

Edited by CJ Shearn
felser Veteran

felser

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On 5/26/2016 at 4:27 PM, GA Russell said:

Thanks CJ!  I need Etcetera, Moto Grosso and Odyssey.  I'll have to ponder whether those three are worth $50.

They are, but you can buy the three individual BN's for less than $50 combined.

CJ Shearn Rookie

CJ Shearn

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, felser said:

They are, but you can buy the three individual BN's for less than $50 combined.

Not at Amazon, Etcetera, the LT 999 series reissue is now $21 and change, Odyssey is $21 something  and Moto Grosso is $17 and change

Edited by CJ Shearn
felser Veteran

felser

Posted
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9 hours ago, CJ Shearn said:

Not at Amazon, Etcetera, the LT 999 series reissue is now $21 and change, Odyssey is $21 something  and Moto Grosso is $17 and change

I'm willing to buy used in VG/LN condition.

. I see the 1995 Etcetera (which I prefer) at $6.97

http://www.amazon.com/Etcetera-Wayne-Shorter/dp/B000005H1C/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1464522714&sr=1-1&keywords=wayne+shorter+etcetera

Odyssey at $12 (or $13.78 with free shipping)

http://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Iska-Wayne-Shorter/dp/B000008C8J/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1464522784&sr=1-1&keywords=wayne+shorter+odyssey

Motto at $10.99

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FMRPXM6?ie=UTF8&keywords=wayne%20shorter%20grosso&qid=1464522884&ref_=sr_1_2&s=music&sr=1-2

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