MLB 2016 Season Thread Of Discussions

[ghost of miles]

2 hours ago, paul secor said:

Stupid move by the Yankees. Miller is under contract for two more years and he's proven himself to be a very effective closer. Minor leaguers are a shot in the dark.

I agree, Paul.  While I've read good things about the prospects, none of them seems to rate as highly as Torres (and are they planning on moving either him or Gregorius to second or third, given that Gregorius has proven to be one of the few bright spots this year?), and we were giving away less in that deal, with Chapman's contract running out at the end of the season.  I understand the apparent decision to give up on this season and build for the future, but it would have been good to have both Betances and Miller on the backend for the next two years while we did so.  If we're doing a fire sale, why on earth are we holding on to Beltran?  Or was there no interest or potential trade of value being offered for him? 

[paul secor]

If they want to do a complete rebuild, the first move they should make is firing Cashman.

[Dan Gould]

There's a full day to go before the deadline. Beltran could certainly be gone by then, and Teix too. 

I am a little surprised that they moved Miller as his cost is reasonable and his performance is high but my question for my Yankee fan friends is, should they be rebuilding? At long last, isn't it time?

Because Beltran and the other overpriced old folks aren't getting you squat compared to the talent they've gotten for Chapman and Miller.

[Patrick]

Yankees got talent for Miller, not firesale prices. I expect Beltran is gone by the deadline. What about Brett Gardner?

[paul secor]

The first move they should make is to send A-Rod, Sabathia, and Teixeira home, unless they can get something for them. They have to pay them, but they don't have to play them. Teixeira - Mr. .190 - "I'm a pull hitter and I'm not going to change" - grounded out to second his last time up yesterday and as a pinch hitter in the 9th today. If he had grounded to the left side, which was wide open, he'd have had a hit both times. At least his contract is over after this season; A-Rod - Mr. .210 - struck out four times yesterday, did the same as a pinch hitter in the 9th today. Pay him off for the rest of this year and next year and send him home; Sabathia - another year left on his contract. Make him the batting practice pitcher, and if that doesn't humiliate him enough to make him retire, just pay him off and send him home. They could make A-Rod warm up relief pitchers in the bullpen, but he has no shame, so he'd probably do it just to collect his salary. Clear out the useless garbage.

[JSngry]

Otoh, hello Mitch Moreland,  always a pleasure!

[ghost of miles]

I do want to see the Yankees rebuild, but would have preferred that they did it without trading Miller, who, as Paul notes, has two more years on his contract and is in his prime.  Are they that confident that they can sign Chapman back as a free agent over the winter, or are they putting it all on Betances now? (And who will replace Betances as set-up man? Unless they've already decided to give up on Severino as a starter, which I hope they haven't.)  Re Beltran, any team that needs to bolster their hitting, particularly an AL team, could definitely use him in the next two months, as he's clearly shown that he can still perform at the plate, for this season, anyway.  Right, we won't get a Torres for him, but we could surely get something... nobody will want Tex or A-Rod.  Tex's contract is up at the end of this year anyway, and Alex should retire.  It's crazy and surely coincidental, but his statistical plunge began almost immediately after he turned 40.  I'm talking a couple of days, but the demarcation is there, if you look at his game-by-game performance through his birthday last year and then afterwards. 

[Larry Kart]

2 hours ago, ghost of miles said:

I do want to see the Yankees rebuild, but would have preferred that they did it without trading Miller, who, as Paul notes, has two more years on his contract and is in his prime.  Are they that confident that they can sign Chapman back as a free agent over the winter, or are they putting it all on Betances now? (And who will replace Betances as set-up man? Unless they've already decided to give up on Severino as a starter, which I hope they haven't.)  Re Beltran, any team that needs to bolster their hitting, particularly an AL team, could definitely use him in the next two months, as he's clearly shown that he can still perform at the plate, for this season, anyway.  Right, we won't get a Torres for him, but we could surely get something... nobody will want Tex or A-Rod.  Tex's contract is up at the end of this year anyway, and Alex should retire.  It's crazy and surely coincidental, but his statistical plunge began almost immediately after he turned 40.  I'm talking a couple of days, but the demarcation is there, if you look at his game-by-game performance through his birthday last year and then afterwards. 

Miller is 31. Given the rebuild the Yankees probably need to embark on, he'll likely be on the downside by the time the team is good again. Chapman likewise.

[ghost of miles]

I still hate to see us give up the guy who's arguably the best closer in baseball right now, or at least one of the best... but hopefully one or two of the Indians' prospects will pay off for us in the long run.  Hey Dan, via Over the Monster, look who's interested in Beltran!

Beltran to Red Sox?

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, ghost of miles said:

I still hate to see us give up the guy who's arguably the best closer in baseball right now, or at least one of the best... but hopefully one or two of the Indians' prospects will pay off for us in the long run.  Hey Dan, via Over the Monster, look who's interested in Beltran!

Beltran to Red Sox?

Well the fact is that LF has been a sinkhole of offense on the best offensive team in the league. Beltran is a HUGE upgrade over what they've run out there but as a two month rental there is no reason to give that much for him.

I'd rather dream about Chris Sale, at least until 4 pm. He would cost a crap-ton of prospects but would actually be worth it.

[Dan Gould]

Beltran to the Rangers (nice replacement for Prince Fielder's limp bat). They got the #4 pick in the 2015 draft and two others.  The headlining prospect may be struggling in his first year of pro ball but getting such a highly rated prospect for two months of Beltran is a pretty good get for Cashman.

(BTW, does anyone know how Cashman prevailed on the Steinbrenners that they had to start the rebuilding process? Someone slip some truth serum into Hal and Hank's lattes?)

[JSngry]

Prince is on some more DL stay, Moreland is spotty but awesome when on, so not really worried there, the lineup runs broad and deep(ish) as far as infield goes. It's Choo whose real status is not known, so Beltran fill that hole, whether it exists or not.

Still waiting for the Gallo for Lucroy shoe to drop.

[Dan Gould]

Lucroy is done and it will be nice to see him face the spurned Indians in the playoffs.

And the Yanks wave goodbye to Ivan Nova, so highly regarded that they got ... a PTBNL.

[JSngry]

Brinson....ouch.

[paul secor]

Beltran will help Texas. He's been a complete professional this season and is the only Yankee hitter who has produced consistently.

[JSngry]

Beltran is fine. So is Lucroy for that matter, we're thin at the position, have been. But damn, Brinson and Ortiz?

In J.D. we trust, still, but nobody's perfect. Seems like an overpay to me, we'll see.

[Dan Gould]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

Beltran is fine. So is Lucroy for that matter, we're thin at the position, have been. But damn, Brinson and Ortiz?

In J.D. we trust, still, but nobody's perfect. Seems like an overpay to me, we'll see.

#3 and 4 ranked prospects? I'd definitely say an overpay even if Lucroy is a big upgrade (catcher has really been a sinkhole for offense for your boys) and he's under team control for another year or two.

If I were giving up #3 and #4 I'd want a bigger return then a good-hitting backstop. 

I guess J.D. sees a wide-open AL and this is his chance to get back to the World Series and finally win the damn thing.

[JSngry]

We have been weak-ish at catcher for a few years now, really. Offense matters, but the ability to call a good game is even more important, I think. Lucroy & Chirinos allow to have that, with a little bump offensively. Bobby Wilson DFA'ed...would like to see him somewhere within reach, as he too could call a good gae, even if the offense was kinda quiet.

All told, though, the J.D. wheels are always turning. Seems like an overpay at this point, but those wheels...

As for what we now have to work with now and as players come off the DL: http://www.lonestarball.com/2016/8/1/12345500/texas-rangers-25-man-roster-projected-post-trades Can't say that I would use "weaponized" as anything other than a homemade neologism (a type of word which I generally love), but sounds fair to me.

That would leave us with a lineup looking something like this:

Choo -- RF/DH

Desmond -- CF

Beltran -- RF/DH

Beltre -- 3B

Mazara -- LF

Lucroy -- C

Odor -- 2B

Moreland/Rua platoon -- 1B

Elvis -- SS

With a bench of Moreland/Rua platoon guy, Profar, Chirinos, and Stubbs.

Your rotation would be Yu Darvish, Cole Hamels, Martin Perez, A.J. Griffin, and Lucas Harrell (at least until Colby Lewis and/or Derek Holland return), with Sam Dyson, Jake Diekman, Matt Bush, Keone Kela, Jeremy Jeffress, Tony Barnette and Dario Alvarez in the pen.

That's pretty salty.  You'd like a better #3 starter, but that's a strong roster.  And you're in position to have a weaponized bullpen come October...

[paul secor]

The Yankees overused Beltran in RF, to be able to (foolishly) use A-Rod as a DH, but Beltran never complained, just did his job - a professional, as I said before. He can still play a decent RF - just not every day, at 39.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by paul secor

[JSngry]

I like the Beltran/Beltre sequence in the order. You could have one fansign for both, just Velcro an "an" and an "e" to put at the end of "Belt". That's the kind of smart productivity that is fuelling the 21st Century into a world of onward, better, and beyond..

[paul secor]

Smart move.  Actually make a sign for Beltre (since he'll be around next year) and use a Velcro "an" for the next 2 - 2 1/2 months.

[paul secor]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 9:27 PM, Larry Kart said:

Miller is 31. Given the rebuild the Yankees probably need to embark on, he'll likely be on the downside by the time the team is good again. Chapman likewise.

You may be right, Larry, but I'll bet that Miller has more good years left than Chapman. Miller isn't a pitcher who relies on a fastball to get people out. He has a nasty slider and could be around for a while. Then again, with relievers, one never knows how long they'll last. Yankee fans got used to Mariano, and his longevity was an anomaly.

[Larry Kart]

Paul -- Why should Yankee fans care whether Miller has more good years left than Chapman? Again, it's likely that by the time the team gets good again, neither man will be a force. Further, of course, if and when the team does get good again, some of the players they got for Miller and Chapman will be responsible. Without them or their equivalents, you've got a franchise in decline but with Miller as your closer? Whoopee.

[JSngry]

8 hours ago, paul secor said:

Smart move.  Actually make a sign for Beltre (since he'll be around next year) and use a Velcro "an" for the next 2 - 2 1/2 months.

Beltre will be around forever, somewhere, perhaps just as a memory, but he will always be around. Beltre Is Forever.

[paul secor]

13 hours ago, Larry Kart said:

Paul -- Why should Yankee fans care whether Miller has more good years left than Chapman? Again, it's likely that by the time the team gets good again, neither man will be a force. Further, of course, if and when the team does get good again, some of the players they got for Miller and Chapman will be responsible. Without them or their equivalents, you've got a franchise in decline but with Miller as your closer? Whoopee.

I agree in part, Larry. But unless your team is going to be the Atlanta Braves, with a collection of minor leaguers on the field, and hardly ever have a lead deep into a game, you need a closer. I don't think that Betances will be an effective closer. When you have a guy who is arguably the best closer in baseball, you don't trade him for a group of minor leaguers who may never help your team at all.  At least I wouldn't.

Cashman has had his shot for years - too many. The things he did haven't worked out and he's just trying to buy time and save his job. Can him and bring in a younger g.m. with new ideas.