MLB 2016 Season Thread Of Discussions

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Tim McG said:

Over simplification, Dan. As per usual, you fail to acknowledge the intangibles of the game.

Explain to me, then, how this allegedly sucky team won three WS trophies in seven years? This is the same type of team, with the same less-than-stellar statistics and with the same manager. The difference in 2016 was the pen. 34 blown saves. That's it. In short, your argument simply does not stand up to the light of reason.

Arguing with you is such a waste of time but what the hell.

1.  THIS sucky team was bounced in the first round of the playoffs which it barely qualified for.  The idea that they are somehow equivalent to a roster that won 103 games is so ludicrous it beggars the imagination.

2. There were three different teams that won it all. Rosters change. Who exactly is still on the roster, from the start of the first championship season to this one?

3. If the roster is so special, how come it failed in those odd years? Oh, maybe its because it was luck and coincidence that they found success in even years.

3.  And ... luck runs out for everyone. Or do you think that guts and stamina, and heart and determination is what it takes to win so many elimination games in a row?

Good luck finding that closer with crappy stuff but great heart. It's the newest undervalued commodity. Wait until Billy Beane finds out he's going to blow up the A's again.

[Tim McG]

Again, an over simplification...and you still haven't answered my question: "Explain to me, then, how this allegedly sucky team won three WS trophies in seven years?"  You know, it constantly amazes me how people who don't follow the Giants are always claiming to be the experts on the Giants. Like those of us who do have no idea what is happening or have any sort of knowledge about the game. Maybe you're wrong...is it even possible?

Believe what you want, Dan. 

BTW...how'd the Red Sox do? Oh...oops.

[JSngry]

Consistently great organizations don't necessarily field consistently great teams every season. Too many variables, some of them totally unpredictable/controllable.

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Tim McG said:

Again, an over simplification...and you still haven't answered my question: "Explain to me, then, how this allegedly sucky team won three WS trophies in seven years?"  You know, it constantly amazes me how people who don't follow the Giants are always claiming to be the experts on the Giants. Like those of us who do have no idea what is happening or have any sort of knowledge about the game. Maybe you're wrong...is it even possible?

Believe what you want, Dan. 

BTW...how'd the Red Sox do? Oh...oops.

Work on your reading skills Tim. But let's try one more time:

It wasn't the same roster that won three times.

One never has to "follow" any team to make knowledgeable judgments about it based on its results, which this year was:

barely over .500 record;

completely shitty bullpen;

pathetic collapse in September that nearly took them out of the playoffs;

lucky to get into the playoffs;

bounced in the division series;

Still waiting to hear from you your explanation for their FAILURE to do anything in the other three years.  Guess those rosters just didn't have heart, soul, determination or a set of balls.  But where the hell did they find them in the even years? I'm just at a loss, and I am truly thru with you.

 

[Tim McG]

Actually it was pretty much the same roster with a few changes.  Same manager. Same style of play. Even if everything was different the same traditional "issues" were there and the Giants still won three WS rings. My point is it is no fluke. That is the design. I know the game and my team.

BoSox, OTOH, are a far better team on paper. But the net results were not the same. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, Dan.  Feel free to disagree. But the Giants are what they are and have been very successful by any standard of measurement. BTW...the BoSox are only 6 games better, got swept in the ALDS, won no post season games [Giants won 2] and yet you call out Giants' suckage?

As to any "failure", nobody wins the WS or the division evry single year, Dan. Including your BoSox.

And you still haven't answered my question.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Tim McG

[Tim McG]

7 hours ago, JSngry said:

Consistently great organizations don't necessarily field consistently great teams every season. Too many variables, some of them totally unpredictable/controllable.

Exactly.

The game is on the field, not on paper.

BTW...the Giants were once known to have the best bullpen in the NL and with one of the lowest ERAs. This year and much of last year, the bullpen fell apart.

That's what killed them. 34 blown saves and a closer who wasn't. It happens. So, we try again next season.

Then this:

And I quote: " These Giants, then, are different. They entered each of their charmed seasons with little national hype."

Untraditional Dynasty in the Making

Edited October 12, 2016 by Tim McG

[paul secor]

It turns my stomach to see A-Rod and Pete Rose doing pre-game commentary. Rose looks like a troll these days.

[Soulstation1]

Both are born liars and convicted

[Patrick]

ARod and Rose deserve each other, and I'll switch the channel. Kinda liked the Big Hurt there for awhile, but the company you keep...

[Ted O'Reilly]

Toronto Blue Jays over the Clevelanders in six.  Starts in a couple of hours from now...

[Patrick]

So far so good on north coast. Miller time. 

[Soulstation1]

Let's Go Tribe!!

Tribes pitching is on fire 

[ghost of miles]

Great win for Cleveland tonight (Andrew Miller, Yankee fans still miss you!).  We could end up with a World Series featuring two former Yankee ace closers. I'd like to see a Chicago-Cleveland WS simply for the old-school, Midwestern MLB match-up.

[paul secor]

Perhaps the Yankees can trade Cashman for Miller.

[soulpope]

1 hour ago, paul secor said:

Perhaps the Yankees can trade Cashman for Miller.

....

[Soulstation1]

Only champagne popped should be after a World Series win .....

[paul secor]

1 hour ago, Soulstation1 said:

Only champagne popped should be after a World Series win .....

I agree.

[Soulstation1]

Tribe up 2-0 

??

[BERIGAN]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:22 PM, Soulstation1 said:

Both are born liars and convicted

Hey,hey no politics here, this is a baseball thread!

[BERIGAN]

On 10/12/2016 at 9:39 AM, Tim McG said:

One final thought:

I'm not saying the Cubs aren't a very good and well coached team. Their top three starting pitchers are excellent. No doubt.

But please do not tell me the team, as a whole, is better than the Giants. They have some stars, we have some stars. Defensively the Giants are as good as anybody. Offensively, no HR hitters per se, but these guys scratch out hits. That is the Giants' way. They won three WS trophies doing just exactly that. This whole notion that they have to be like the '24 Yankees to be considered a good team is nonsense. ...

Well, it's true...the 24 Yankees were a good team(Babe Ruth hit 46 HR's no one else had more than 12.....losers)...but they finished 2 games behind the Washington Senators.

Just to be a contrarian...to a degree....The Cubs are a MUCH better team than the Giants...but, the Giants have arguably the best Post season starter ever (granted, not so hot this year, but he has been death to many a team ) and that's a huge advantage. And Bochy , while seemingly overdoing the bullpen changes, hey it has worked much more often than it hasn't. And there are intangibles that are just that, intangible. Not sure how much of a hand Bochy has had in keeping players "jazzed" but not overly aggressive, but guys like Hunter Pence were able to fire up teams, the Big Panda seemed to have the same ice water in his veins Manny and Ortiz had with the game on the line...How players perform under pressure....how well they can think under pressure is everything...

[Soulstation1]

8 hours ago, BERIGAN said:

Hey,hey no politics here, this is a baseball thread!

Look up the Reggie Jackson quote 

Not sure why you bring up politics 

[catesta]

Toronto is finished.

[JSngry]

awwww...I hs a sadd

[Tim McG]

Well, congratulations to the Cleveland Indians!

GO Cubs!

On 10/17/2016 at 5:57 AM, BERIGAN said:

Well, it's true...the 24 Yankees were a good team(Babe Ruth hit 46 HR's no one else had more than 12.....losers)...but they finished 2 games behind the Washington Senators.

Just to be a contrarian...to a degree....The Cubs are a MUCH better team than the Giants...but, the Giants have arguably the best Post season starter ever (granted, not so hot this year, but he has been death to many a team ) and that's a huge advantage. And Bochy , while seemingly overdoing the bullpen changes, hey it has worked much more often than it hasn't. And there are intangibles that are just that, intangible. Not sure how much of a hand Bochy has had in keeping players "jazzed" but not overly aggressive, but guys like Hunter Pence were able to fire up teams, the Big Panda seemed to have the same ice water in his veins Manny and Ortiz had with the game on the line...How players perform under pressure....how well they can think under pressure is everything...

Ageed.

Though here again, the press and anybody with access to baseball stats, have been saying the same thing about the Giants since Bochy became their manager. The Giants are much more than a statistic or a side-by-side comparison. How else can we explain three WS rings in five years. One would have been a fluke. Three makes the statement: It was and is all about heart and the intangibles of the game.

[Soulstation1]

Tribe going to The Series

??