Hot Ptah Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Some Barnes and Noble stores have added significantly to their inventory in the past two years. The Kansas City store on the Plaza had little music selection a few years ago but it has bounced back and now has a decent selection again. I am pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, marcello said: The distributor is everything. I believe Warner Brothers is the distributor for ECM, and obviously they do a wonderful job for them. Other than that, each B&N music department manager, in each individual store, can order what they want. Apparently there are a few odd items here and there which they can order only if the customer agrees to not come into the store to pick them up. Surely this is not an attempted effect, but just as surely, it is a real one. At that point,, I'm like, you know, fuck going in there, what do they have that I can't get anywhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Borders got to be just as bad, I kept going into the Plano store for new releases and they were like, we don't have it here, but they do have it in Dallas. So I'd schlep down to Dallas, supporting "local" stores and all that, besides, I like car time. Then in Dallas it got to be, well no, we don't have that, we don't have the shelf space for that, but we can order it for you, and then was when I got all, well, fuck that, I can order it my own damn self, what do I need you for? The financials of Borders & B*N apparently were very different, because obviously only one survived, but, really, I'm the type of shopper that getting me in the store is the real battle, once I'm in there, I'll surely find something to buy, a freakin' Louis Armstrong bookmark or an Albert Einstein memo pad, something.. But sending me the message that not only am I too dumb to order off the internet, but you'd just as soon I not come in to look for what I want, what, I am not welcome to come into your store of my own volition and out of my own curiosity, just stay home and we'll send it to you? A place like that, I cannot laugh hard enough if/when it finally goes under. I laugh in these people's faces when they tell me they can "order it for ya'!", because hey - the internet is its own middleman. You bring no value to this equation sir or madam, and I will not read your book, not any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 More to the immediate point, though - I buy a "lot" of music, new and used, online and "in person", but if you were to use my consumption at Barnes & Noble as an indicator of anything, you'd think I had the same collection now as I did 4-5 years ago, that I've just gotten old and given up. My wife no doubt wishes it were so, but, sorry baby, when you pick your battles, don't think I don't consider it a blessing from above that you never pick this one. So, all anybody got to do to get physical product to an audience without resorting to this megachain silliness is just find alternative outlets, where your audience hangs out, and place the product accordingly and proportionately. One thing hasn't changed since the goodolddays - you can still buy records at some unconventional places - I bought some Oum Kalsoum stuff at a freakin' buffet restaurant, came to eat, went home with a feast. "Independent" anything, start looking there, and the more ethnic- or age- or art- specific it is, look all that much harder. Because a lot of people don't go to Barnes & Noble to get what they want, nor do they really need to. And really - word of mouth and a good server...you can have a hit and nobody will hear about it other than the people who know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm seeing him next week - one of two sold-out shows. Will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Hot Ptah said: Some Barnes and Noble stores have added significantly to their inventory in the past two years. The Kansas City store on the Plaza had little music selection a few years ago but it has bounced back and now has a decent selection again. I am pleasantly surprised. I haven't been in that store in many years (probably 6 to 7), but I didn't even recall it having a music section! So it must have been small. Edited February 17, 2016 by Scott Dolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Scott Dolan said: I haven't been in that store in many years (probably 6 to 7), but I didn't even recall it having a music section! So it must have been small. The entire basement was music when it opened. The selection in the basement shifted to mostly DVDs and Blu Rays at one point. Now the music section has taken over more of the basement again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Aha! I never went down to the basement, so now it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, JSngry said: More to the immediate point, though - I buy a "lot" of music, new and used, online and "in person", but if you were to use my consumption at Barnes & Noble as an indicator of anything, you'd think I had the same collection now as I did 4-5 years ago, that I've just gotten old and given up. My wife no doubt wishes it were so, but, sorry baby, when you pick your battles, don't think I don't consider it a blessing from above that you never pick this one. So, all anybody got to do to get physical product to an audience without resorting to this megachain silliness is just find alternative outlets, where your audience hangs out, and place the product accordingly and proportionately. One thing hasn't changed since the goodolddays - you can still buy records at some unconventional places - I bought some Oum Kalsoum stuff at a freakin' buffet restaurant, came to eat, went home with a feast. "Independent" anything, start looking there, and the more ethnic- or age- or art- specific it is, look all that much harder. Because a lot of people don't go to Barnes & Noble to get what they want, nor do they really need to. And really - word of mouth and a good server...you can have a hit and nobody will hear about it other than the people who know about it. Every city is different. I REALLY REALLY did NOT mean to turn this thread into a discussion of the merits of Barnes and Noble when I mentioned that I could not buy Kamasi Washington's "The Epic" there. I used Barnes and Noble as an example ONLY, of how there is no huge 1970s style promotional campaign behind the album which is catapulting Kamasi Washington into undeserved fame and riches, while more artistically deserving artists continue to struggle. That is not happening if my city is typical. i should have not mentioned the name of the store where I could not buy "The Epic." I mentioned Barnes and Noble ONLY because it is literally the only brick and mortar store in Kansas City now where you can pop in and buy a current new release on CD. The other brick and mortar stores in Kansas City are used music stores or unique specialty shops reflecting the personality of the owner, who is usually sitting at the cash register. I did not mean to even discuss the pros and cons of current Barnes and Noble stores nationwide. Edited February 17, 2016 by Hot Ptah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Paramus Barnes & Noble- the one with the big(ger) jazz selection) 765 Route 17 South Paramus, NJ 07652 201-445-4589 Same thing - I can order for you, but for home delivery only. Although, this guy did say he could "take a chance" on ordering a store copy, but if he did that, he's have to be sure of an almost immediate turnover. But as far as placing an order, prepaid, of course, for store pickup. Nope, couldn't happen. I don't know what the Paramusstore is like, but around here, I've seen stock on the B&N shelves that's been there 3-5 years. But at least this guy offered a theoretical possibility of The Epic being on his shelves, even though he didn't act like he wanted it to be. Fear of the unknown, perhaps? And again, this "I can order it for you to have it delivered to your house:...I can do that myself, why do they think this is something I'm gonna get excited about, them offering to do this for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Some people do not like ordering things online. I was just having a discussion about that with a nice lady who doesn't like ordering things online. And some folks just don't like or "get" the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I would prefer buying music from a physical store - I enjoy seeing the actual records or CDs and I enjoy the interaction - but since there are no stores in my area with any decent stock, I'm stuck ordering online. In any case, I ain't going to be buying a Kamasi Washington recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 41 minutes ago, JSngry said: Paramus Barnes & Noble- the one with the big(ger) jazz selection) 765 Route 17 South Paramus, NJ 07652 201-445-4589 Same thing - I can order for you, but for home delivery only. Although, this guy did say he could "take a chance" on ordering a store copy, but if he did that, he's have to be sure of an almost immediate turnover. But as far as placing an order, prepaid, of course, for store pickup. Nope, couldn't happen. I don't know what the Paramusstore is like, but around here, I've seen stock on the B&N shelves that's been there 3-5 years. But at least this guy offered a theoretical possibility of The Epic being on his shelves, even though he didn't act like he wanted it to be. Fear of the unknown, perhaps? And again, this "I can order it for you to have it delivered to your house:...I can do that myself, why do they think this is something I'm gonna get excited about, them offering to do this for me? Why don't you call every one in the nation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Because this is anecdotal research, not scientific. But hey - free long distance, gotta love free long distance, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Getting back on topic .. I just watched/listened to The Epic on youtube. The music is OK, nothing amazing IMHO. I lost interest with it after a while. There once was a much more original big band with it's leader also dressed unconventionally. It was called the Sun Ra Arkestra. I am surprised no one here has drawn the parallels between Sun Ra's and Kamasi's acts. Am I off by comparing the two? Even though I was less than thrilled about the music, I'm glad there's an act like him. It's always good to have the non-jazz listeners exposed to our music. Because all of us were non-jazz listeners once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 21 hours ago, Steve Reynolds said: They stock ultra-obscure ECM issues but not The Epic?!? No way some of those odd ECM CDs sell one tenth whatever The Epic is selling Maybe the audiences for the two are different. Easy to imagine that some older shoppers (like ECM fans) still like to frequent record stores whereas youngsters (Kamasi fans) do not. It might simply be that ECM's distribution network is suffering from inefficient inertia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Ptah Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 30 minutes ago, Dmitry said: Getting back on topic .. I just watched/listened to The Epic on youtube. The music is OK, nothing amazing IMHO. I lost interest with it after a while. There once was a much more original big band with it's leader also dressed unconventionally. It was called the Sun Ra Arkestra. I am surprised no one here has drawn the parallels between Sun Ra's and Kamasi's acts. Am I off by comparing the two? Even though I was less than thrilled about the music, I'm glad there's an act like him. It's always good to have the non-jazz listeners exposed to our music. Because all of us were non-jazz listeners once. I saw Sun Ra live many times. He was very much more creative, unusual and wild in concert. He was out and out strange at times, in a good way. I don't really see the parallels with Kamasi Washington. It would be like saying that some young guy with long hair who plays electric guitar is reminiscent of Frank Zappa live. It is like another universe apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm looking for that unconventional clothing myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Don't really hear a strong Sun Ra "connection" in the music myself. A bit perhaps. Going to have to spin The Epic again soon. I do like it. So much to listen to! Edited February 17, 2016 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, Hot Ptah said: I saw Sun Ra live many times. He was very much more creative, unusual and wild in concert. He was out and out strange at times, in a good way. I don't really see the parallels with Kamasi Washington. It would be like saying that some young guy with long hair who plays electric guitar is reminiscent of Frank Zappa live. It is like another universe apart. No , I think your Zappa analogy doesn't play here. Parallels between Kamasi and Sun Ra: 1.Two large scale orchestras + singers & dancers, playing non-conventional music. 2.Both play original tunes, no standards. 3.Both woodshed-ed, and pretty much lived together with other band members [according to the NYT piece on KW that's what he did/does]. 4.Both would draw large non-jazz audiences. For example, I heard Sun Ra on the same bill with the Sonic Youth. Those are just the obvious similarities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 36 minutes ago, Guy Berger said: Maybe the audiences for the two are different. Easy to imagine that some older shoppers (like ECM fans) still like to frequent record stores whereas youngsters (Kamasi fans) do not. It might simply be that ECM's distribution network is suffering from inefficient inertia. That's an excellent point. As I said earlier, CDs are dinosaurs, so your logic makes perfect sense. It's almost exclusively dinosaurs that are still buying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 20 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said: That's an excellent point. As I said earlier, CDs are dinosaurs, so your logic makes perfect sense. It's almost exclusively dinosaurs that are still buying them. The corollary of this is that KW could still have good or even great marketing support behind him that's not being wasted on record stores. Also, related but unlikely (but someone more familiar with the production side of physical media can chime in) - it may be that the CD is selling so well through other distribution channels that there simply isn't enough stock available to supply a random record store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFrank Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I'm a dinosaur and only have the digital version. If the show is good enough, I'll buy the CD at the merch table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 As someone noted, this has focused too much on Barnes & Noble. In looking for a CD that is probably the last place I'd look. In its heyday, Borders had -- at least the ones around here -- a pretty good Jazz section (which, as it started to get into financial trouble, shrunk). Borders' book sections were also much better than Barnes & Noble, which I generally find wanting. If I wanted to buy a jazz CD, it would be Amazon or CD Universe for me, definitely not B & N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Best actual in house selection of Jazz CDs I ever encountered was at Virgin Megastore in Downtown Disney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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