Insomnia

[Scott Dolan]

8 hours ago, Tom 1960 said:

Holy crap, Scott! I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through. Monday must been one hell of a day. In my case, things have improved with me taking melatonin the past few weeks. Much improved sleep with little periods of being wide awake. The only side effects is that I usually don't catch the alarm before it goes off in the morning and that I wake up feeling groggy. That's usually cured with a big cup of coffee before I head off to the gym shortly afterwards. I'm going to continue taking the melatonin for maybe another week and then stop. I hate taking anything for any extended period of time.

Yeah, I took Melatonin that night, and that just made things that much worse. I actually stayed up until 7pm that Monday. So I went 36.5 hours on a half hour of sleep. Terrible, terrible day. 

But, I've been sleeping all the way through the night since then. My wife said it was the full moon that got me...

Glad to hear things are improving on your end, though.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Scott Dolan

[fasstrack]

I have a concert tomorrow and have been sleeping rather badly. I hope I get a good night's sleep tonight. The music is ready to go, the singer rehearsed. But I'm a nervous worrier by nature.

I guess I'll take a long walk today.

A bow and well wishes to fellow insomniacs.

Joel

Edited January 28, 2016 by fasstrack
spelling

[fasstrack]

By a miracle I got 5 hours sleep last night. I'll take it and run like a thief! Ready to play now...

[fasstrack]

Didn't sleep again last night---not even 5 seconds or winks. I was pumped after a great gig, and simply could not shut my brain off.

 I refuse to cave to this, though. I just do my normal routine, which on Saturdays consists of Lincoln Center library (from where I write), Indian food in the late afternoon, a stroll through Greenwich Village, maybe catch a set or two at Smalls.

The only thing I worry about re insomnia is physical wear and tear on the body. But, again, I refuse to cave. My heart goes out to fellow insomniacs.

 

[fasstrack]

I'm seeing my doctor today. Initially it was for another reason, but the sleeplessness has progressed to the point where I am going to ask for chemical help to ease it. That is normally not my way, not what I believe in, but if this keeps up I'm afraid I will get sick.

Wish me luck...

[Scott Dolan]

Wow, that's too bad. I hate going the chemical route for anything. 

Wish you the best, my friend.  

[fasstrack]

37 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

Wow, that's too bad. I hate going the chemical route for anything. 

Wish you the best, my friend.  

Thanks, Joel.

[JSngry]

Just keep in mind that your body is one big chemical gumbo, and if your insomnia is being caused by some kind of chemical "abnormality", a chemical correction might well be the most sensible/logical course.

Having said that, though, Ambien does not correct one failed chemical chain, it creates a new one. As with all such things, mileages can and do vary widely and wildly, so be careful, especially at the beginning. And if the initial dose doesn't really work, move up to a stronger dose with even more caution. You can "play" with it, but that is so not what it is for.

Having said that, though, if it turns out to work for you, go with it. Not being able to sleep is fun when you're young, but you're not young. I know I'm for damn sure not. At some point, I went from scoffing at sleep to treasuring it. Sounds like you're there now.

Also, Ambien is not the only prescription sleep aid out there, there are other formulations. But it's the only one I've found that works consistently and without "morning after" effects (assuming that a full sleep cycle occurs).

Good luck with all this, and if your doctor just hears "I can't sleep" and writes you a script right then and there, seriously consider seeing another doctor.

[Larry Kart]

In preference to Ambien, which I had been using when I had sleeping problems, my doctor switched me to this:

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8647-610/doxepin-oral/doxepincapsule-oral/details

 

He said it was less habit-forming and more effective. My version of it is liquid; you put some drops on your tongue with a dropper. Don't need to use it much, but when I do, it does the trick. Only problem I've found is that unless you set an an alarm clock or the like, you tend to sleep about eight hours after you take a dose, which can be annoying if you came stark awake at, say, 3 .a.m. and took a dose then.

[Brad]

I've had it from time to time.  I find that stress in your life (of whatever kind) can bring it on.  I have tried Melotonin; it worked for awhile.  I do not recommend Ambien; it can be habit forming and I believe there have been some adverse events associated with its use.  One piece of advice, which may have been covered, is to avoid use of electronic devices after a certain hour as it stiumulates the mind and apparently there is some ingredient in there -- I read that somewhere -- that interferes with the cicadan rythym: I'm not making that up!

Reading can sometimes help.  Another thing that I do is switch beds.  That can help also.

[fasstrack]

The good news: I got 7 blessed hours of sleep last night---and only woke up once. The bad news: I had to be sedated by Lorazepam---a habit-forming benzodiazepam I had cut loose. But I had gone for 2 weeks on almost no sleep, and certainly would have gotten sick. I discussed it with my doctor, whom I like a lot, yesterday, and we decided to give it a shot. She knows I'm no abuser.

Bottom line: it troubles me that I have this drug at hand b/c of the rather odious prospect of getting hooked. One can actually experience withdrawal symptoms including convulsions getting off it.

For now I'm grateful to have slept the 7 hours. But tonight will I succumb and reach for the bottle again? 

Edited February 2, 2016 by fasstrack

[catesta]

Fuckin' Lorazepam. I have taken 1mg from time to time before flying. It definitely puts you to sleep but I hate it.

[Scott Dolan]

I took Lorazepam once, and it just made me really relaxed. I wasn't sleepy at all, but I guess I can see something like that being addicting.

Have either of you tried L-Theanine? It's over the counter and has a similar effect to Lorazepam. I have one that's called Theanine Serene (IIRC), and that seem to be very relaxing. Though, it's never really helped as a sleep aid for me...

[fasstrack]

34 minutes ago, catesta said:

Fuckin' Lorazepam. I have taken 1mg from time to time before flying. It definitely puts you to sleep but I hate it.

The best of two evils at the moment...

[catesta]

1mg of Lorazepam isn't what gets me, although it does make me sleepy it typically just makes you feel very relaxed which is what I needed. I have taken 2mg though and that's a whole different animal for me.

I never worried about getting hooked just didn't like the way I felt for the hours afterwards. I've heard of L-Theanine but have no experience with it.

 

 

[fasstrack]

27 minutes ago, Scott Dolan said:

I took Lorazepam once, and it just made me really relaxed. I wasn't sleepy at all, but I guess I can see something like that being addicting.

Have either of you tried L-Theanine? It's over the counter and has a similar effect to Lorazepam. I have one that's called Theanine Serene (IIRC), and that seem to be very relaxing. Though, it's never really helped as a sleep aid for me...

No, I haven't. The thing is, I react weirdly to many substances---including herbal ones. I remember taking Valerian root and it making me more hyper---the opposite of the desired effect.

[JSngry]

Lorazepam is primarily prescribed for anxiety disorders, correct? If it works, it works, but unless it's really anxiety per se that's keeping you awake...anyway, if it works it works.

Ambien apparently has this "scary" rep about it, but take it from somebody who's been a long-time user - if you cannot sleep, what would you rather learn to be dependent (which is not the same as a full addiction) on - insomnia or Ambien? My "withdrawals" have been what my sleep doctor refers to as "rebound insomnia", 24-48 hours where I can't get to sleep at all, and then I resume what was my normal pattern - an inability to fall asleep until 3-4 AM, an hour or two of falling asleep, then coming awake and getting by with on-and-off napping as available, skipping the naps does nothing to bring the sleep schedule back into a "regular" pattern.

When I was in college, I figured that some people have Circadian Rhythms that run in longer (or shorter) cycles than the norm. Left alone, mine seems to run on about a 30-32 hour cycle. When you can be on your own schedule all the time, hey great. And congratulations.

I was well into my 50s before I decided to medicate my sleep patterns with Ambien, and I'm glad I did. "Side effects" are controllable, it just takes a repetition of certain disciplines to establish the "habit" of falling asleep in bed, with no up and abouts while waiting for the medication to take effect. I've not seen any long-term harm either. I'm still fat, cynical (yet loving) and disinterested in "normal" as a prescribed lifestyle. So, no changes.

Just saying - everybody's chemistry is different, so what works for one might not be good for somebody else. But sleep is too precious a commodity to be tyrannized by on a regular basis. There are options, many options. Get what you need.

[fasstrack]

I was on Lorazepam for perhaps 10 years as anti-anxiety combatant, then used it the latter part of those years as a sleep aid. Finally I cut it loose a few years back, not wanting to stay hooked. I had some old pills left over and started in again when the insomnia kicked in. Finally, I got a new script yesterday. I already don't like where this is going, and would prefer to ride out the insomnia adhering to my normal modes of discipline and daily routine. But this bout was particularly bad, and I didn't want to get sick. But it's too easy---and too fucking American---to reach for a pill every time something goes amiss. I'd love to ride this out sans medicine, but I have it and the temptation is without precedent the way things have been going.

We'll see what happens. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by fasstrack

[JSngry]

I've heard that warm milk actually works. Seriously.

And remember - you're trying to sleep in America. Proceed accordingly.

[fasstrack]

57 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

Ambien apparently has this "scary" rep about  it...

I couldn't abide it: bizarre dreams and a near-hallucinatory state when I awoke. Straaangggee drug...

[JSngry]

Different chemistries...I sleep like a baby and wake up refreshed. The only thing I had to learn was not to "Ambien trip", to not stay awake after the sleep-inducement state has begun. It's a great, GREAT high, I mean, WHOA! talk about feeling GOOD, but...that's when weird shit can happen, and it's important to avoid weird shit whenever you can, right? But my wife has a cousin who would go sleepwalking, sleep-driving, even. Clearly not the sleep aid for her...There's a reason why it's a controlled substance. But there's also a reason why it's so widely used. And abused.

Just goes to show that there is no "one" answer for things like this.

[fasstrack]

My goal is to get off all prescription drugs---including Lipitor, which I've been on since 2004---and switch to herbal remedies, diet, exercise, and meditating. Natural shit.

I guess even that can be abused, huh?

[Brad]

Several years ago, when I first contracted tinnitis (and before I learned to live with it), I couldn't sleep at all.  I took some Xanax for awhile and that worked.  Again, you don't want to get too dependent on it.  I also tried benadryl (but not at the same time) and that helped.  Also, when I've had a cough the Dr. has prescribed cough medicine, something called tussin or like that, which I think had codeine, I took a teaspoon of what was left over and that seemed to help.

[JSngry]

I know some "professional drinkers" (fine line between that and alcoholic, but a line it is...) who use Benadryl when they're in a non-drinking environment.

The most relaxed I've ever played was on a gig where I had to take some codeine cough syrup b/c I had the hack from hell, and this was like a quiet but high profile fashion show, band up on the side of the runway and shit. So, could not cough. I felt like freakin' Lester Young...not sure if the sound matched, but...one can only hope.

They got all kinds of things, natural and chemical, to chill your ass out or amp it up. It's there, anything, anywhere.

Again, chemistry. Bodies are chemistry. The possibilities for use are endless, as are the possibilities for abuse. I'm all for anything that works, so long as there is no collateral damage, and yes, it is inexcusably irresponsible to not do that math beforehand, not during, and especially not after. When you address your body, you are acting as the ultimate consumer, and you need to be the ultimately aware consumer..

[Dmitry]

Having coitus really helps me transition into a fulfilling, relaxing sleep.