Jackie McLean meets Tony Williams

[Tom 1960]

Attention Scott! A thread I introduced awhile back on Jackie's Blue Note recordings garnered some major discussion. Definitely worth viewing. http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/76486-jackie-mcleans-1960s-blue-note-recordings/&page=1

[Scott Dolan]

Thanks, Tom! I will definitely check it out. 

Will dig into another album or two tonight while I'm doing some housework. 

Always nice to be able to cross another artist I've always meant to check out as a leader off the bucket list. 

[Milestones]

One that doesn't get mentioned much is the record with Ornette, New and Old Gospel.  I think it's a pretty remarkable piece, especially the track "Old Gospel."  Ornette sticks to trumpet throughout, which is probably why some are not fans.  

[Scott Dolan]

Especially Miles. 

I think if Ornette had never picked up the trumpet, Miles wouldn't have disliked Free Jazz as much as he did. 

[Milestones]

Hard to say.  Ornette did not play trumpet on his early recordings, including (I believe) the entirety of the great Atlantic sessions. Miles was already pronouncing his opinions on free jazz.  

[Scott Dolan]

Excellent point. I wonder if he played trumpet at gigs? The first recorded examples weren't until the mid sixties (i.e. Golden Circle) and he had Cherry with him for pretty much all the Atlantic dates, I just wonder when he started playing it in general. 

Either way, I'm sure you're right. 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[jazzbo]

According to this article Ornette taught himself trumpet and violin during the first three or four years of the 'sixties.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fcobr

And according to this one it was '63 and '64.

http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2034-ornette-coleman-barry-witherden-s-the-wire-primer

Edited December 27, 2015 by jazzbo

[JSngry]

http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html

June 1964, perhaps the most famous of Miles' BFTs, Miles says he likes Don Cherry, but can't stand either Eric Dolphy or Cecil Taylor. The admission of a liking of Cherry remained constant through Miles' life afaik.

At some earlier point Miles said of Ornette himself “Hell, I just listen to what he writes and how he plays. If you’re talking psychologically, the man is all screwed up inside.” -- Miles Davis, reported to Joe Goldberg, “Jazz Masters of the ‘50s”

 

 

[Joe]

I believe John Litweiler has pointed this out (FREEDOM PRINCIPLE) but it sure sounds like Miles was listening closely to Don Cherry around the time of MILES SMILES and the Plugged Nickel recordings.

[jazzbo]

Indeed.

[Milestones]

Miles' fierce reactions are interesting, in that it is known that both Ornette and Eric Dolphy cited Bird as a major influence.  

 

[AllenLowe]

just as an aside, I've always thought that Cherry, on the Hillcrest recordings, shows a very strong Clifford Brown influence.

but the odd thing about Williams, to me, is that in the years just prior to his death he was a different player; to my ears, much more generic. I never understood why this happened.

.

Edited December 27, 2015 by AllenLowe

[jazzbo]

I don't disagree, Tony's final years the playing was different and not as interesting. But if he only had the first ten years or so of his career it would have been history making.

[Joe]

Cherry knew his bebop.

[Milestones]

I like Tony's playing relatively late playing in trios with Hank Jones and Tommy Flanagan. Some of the other stuff (like the quintet), I'm still not so sure.

 

[JSngry]

I like his playing with his quintet because it's his band and his material. That's how he thought is should have gone. By then, I think he was looking at it more as a composer playing a part than he was a drummer jamming out.

That's pretty much how I like the entirety of that band, actually. Other than Mulgrew Miller, no really "distinctive" soloists in there. But the material, it works. The lack of stronger soloists keeps me from "fully enjoying" those records, but how I do enjoy them is as the output of Tony Williams, composer. And from that view, it's a pretty prodigious output, really.

But those drums, they sure were yellow!

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

great pic- hope theres a recording to accompany it

Edited December 28, 2015 by chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez