Herbie Hancock 1969 acoustic sextet

[GA Russell]

I saw Herbie's acoustic sextet in 1969 or maybe 1970.

Is anyone aware of a CD of a live performance of that band?

And, I suppose, do you recommend it?

Thanks!

[felser]

I LOVE 'The Prisoner' and think highly of 'Fat Albert Rotunda'.  Any live recording from that era with decent sound would be most welcome, but I'm not aware of any.

[Stefan Wood]

Not aware of any live recording of him from that period until Mwandishi related stuff circa 1972.

[BillF]

This seems to confirm what you're saying:

http://www.jazzdisco.org/herbie-hancock/discography/

[king ubu]

Well, this would be about unofficial releases ... there was an earlier discussion here:

But at least the keys would be (partly) plugged in by then. Not sure about purely acoustic. 

[GA Russell]

Thanks everyone!

[Gheorghe]

It seems it wasn´t recorded that much.

A really good performance of a set of the acoustic sextet from the mentioned period was done in 1976 on the first VSOP album. It´s the first set the classic VSOP quintet representing the mid 60´s period, than the set from the "middle period" and the last set the electric group.

[mikeweil]

There is a double LP / CD announced for December from a concert at the Boston Jazz Workshop, no idea if this is legitimate:

The CD lists only two tracks, Hornets & You'll Know When You Get There, Label calls itself HiHat. No idea if the LPs have more.

Amazon UK lists this since July, 2015. Should be a British label. 

[king ubu]

Certainly not legitimate ... plenty of Boston radio broadcasts in circulation. 

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

like a speak like a child era ensemble like pre fusion, like right before he went fusion?  i would like to hear a live something of that

[Rooster_Ties]

Well lookie, lookie what I just stumbled across on YouTube, 25 minutes of LIVE Herbie from Antibes, July 24, 1969.  We all know the two sets of Miles from these concerts have been issued, and I know there's a full set of Bobby Hutcherson from one these same concerts too (that I've had on a nice silver-disc greymarket boot for years). But until just tonight, I had no idea Herbie had even played at this event.

Cut-n-pasted the info below (all in red) from the YouTube description.

I concur that it's Johnny Coles and Garnette Brown, which both seem very clearly them, to my ears.  Definitely NOT Joe Henderson (if it were, I'd be in absolute heaven with this! -- but it's a hell of a find, as is, either way).  And so I agree that it could very easily be Bennie Maupin.  Also, "Tootie" seems as logical a guess as any on drums.  Can anyone ID the two tunes??

Published on Mar 7, 2017

Recorded at the Jazz Festival Antibes, Juan-les-Pins, July 24, 1969
I don't have much information about this record, maybe someone can help me out.

Excerpt of the concert:
1 unknown Track
2 unknown Track (starts at 12:20)

Herbie Hancock (p)
Johnny Coles (flugelhorn)
Garnett Brown? (tb)
Joe Henderson? Bennie Maupin? (ts)
Buster Williams (b)
Albert "Tootie" Heath? (dr)

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Rooster_Ties

[brownie]

I was at the 1969 Antibes festival.  Hancock did not play then (Miles was there with Chick Corea, so was Bobby Hutcherson with Harold Land).

Hancock played with his band at the  Antibes festival in 1971.

[mikeweil]

Just listening. If it was 1971, and I trust Brownie on this, it must be Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Bennie Maupin, Buster Williams, and Billy Hart. The players sound to me like this personnel, too. This is not Johnny Coles' trumpet sound. Definitely Maupin and Hart.

The personnel listed on YouTube is obviously based on the false assumption that this was a 1969 performance, and not on aural evidence.

The two tunes were not recorded on Herbie's albums.

[brownie]

Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Bennie Maupin, Buster Williams and Billy Hart were with Hancock when he performed at the Juan les Pins festival on July 21, 1971.

[Rooster_Ties]

Sounds more like Garnett Brown to me, than it does Priester (I love Brown's tone on Booker Ervin's Heavy!!! for instance). And the trumpeter doesn't sound much like Eddie Henderson to me, and does sound a bit like someone who at least plays a bit more like Coles to me.

FWIW.

[Rooster_Ties]

Some info/speculation that it may NOT even be Herbie at all (or anyone from his group), from THIS THREAD over at the Steve Hoffman board (where there's a long Herbie thread going on, and I posted it over there too).

(And whoever the trombone player is, he's got that insanely aggressive tone that Garnett Brown has at times.)

Quote

I remember a discussion from a Miles discussion list I used to read where members found that this was not Herbie, but Graham Collier's group. One of the pieces had been recorded on a Collier album from that time. I am a bit fuzzy on the details now so if anyone has more info, please weigh in.

 

EDIT: found the details from that discussion about this mystery recording.

 

Graham Collier Group: Pinède, Antibes (March 21, 1969)

 

Link above (which goes to the plosin "Miles Ahead" site) has this info...

 

Graham Collier Group
Pinède, Antibes

March 21, 1969 (2 items; TT = 24:54)
Pinède, Antibes
Source/Quality: RB (B+)

Harry Beckett (tpt); Nick Evans (tb); Stan Sulzmann (ss, ts); Stanley Cowell (p); Graham Collier (b); John Marshall (d)

1 Unknown Title 12:16
2 Aberdeen Angus (G. Collier) 12:38

According to Stan Sulzmann, Karl Jenkins, Collier's regular keyboard player, had to miss this gig because of the death of his father, and Stanley Cowell was enlisted to play in his place. Thanks to Terry Sullivan for help with this session.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Rooster_Ties

[clifford_thornton]

Yes, it's Collier. That's Harry Beckett all right, from the first bar.

Definitely "Aberdeen Angus" as well. Very interesting to hear Cowell in this context. Not exactly perfect but certainly no slouch.

[mikeweil]

I had my doubts about Priester. The trumpet player uses some Hubbard derived phrases just like Eddie Henderson, and Cowell has enough similarities to Hancock. Someone registered at YouTube should correct the personnel! This here indeed sound much more plausible.

Edited June 15, 2017 by mikeweil

[clifford_thornton]

I commented on YT but doubt the original video poster will fix it or re-up it with accurate info.

[Olie Brice]

Definitely sounds like Harry Beckett to me, as someone who heard him live countless times and sort-of played with him (only ever in a large group, don't think he knew my name!) - and that isn't Buster Williams

Listening some more - sounds very like Stan Sulzmann too - I think the Collier explanation is accurate

Edited June 16, 2017 by Olie Brice
listened further

[sidewinder]

As if by magic I actually have within my files a typed/printed publicity flyer sent out by Graham covering his gigs in the London area, June-July 1969.

On July 21st they were at the 100 Club, 100 Oxford Street. Then Graham adds the note 'after which, the band goes to Antibes to participate in the International Jazz Festival - and to have a holiday !'

and so it came to pass !

In addition the band did a broadcast in June 1969 for the BBC on 'Jazz Workshop' which featured...... Aberdeen Angus !

[david weiss]

Glad this has been cleared up. I was sent this recording 4 years ago as a blindfold test but the agenda was for me to confirm that this was Herbie's group. I told the person there was no way this was Herbie. When this was posted on youtube, a Facebook page run by someone who has had some experience working with Herbie posted it on his wall exclaiming check out this great, newly discovered live Herbie and I disputed it and was met with some skepticism (people really have faith in what they read on the internet) but finally people came around. Glad that we know who this is for sure now....

[mikeweil]

5 hours ago, david weiss said:

(people really have faith in what they read on the internet) 

That'll be one of the greatest problems for many years to come!

I have to apologize for not listening closely and on poorly sounding speakers, and without much listening to these British players, some of whom I always appreciated, but haven't heard often. Sometimes I forget my own rule to always think thrice before posting anything anywhere.

Edited June 17, 2017 by mikeweil