Joe Castro Box Set on Sunnyside

[Bol]

sorry  Larry, I just do not like Getz and  have never been able to listen to him; his was one of the first LPs I ever owned; I am convinced now, though I had no idea at the time (hey I was only 14) that he was a sociopathic narcissist (got my degree from Phoenix U); and I truly think his playing reflects that very directly.

I personally love Stan Getz, esp. his early 1950's recordings.  But I can understand how someone might feel the way Allen does about a musician.  I feel the same way about Keith Jarrett.  I think Jarrett's playing reflects his self-indulgent, unctuous, aggravating narcissism.  And all that phony moaning!  If I am not mistaken, Jarrett does not moan on his classical recordings, probably because he realizes that he could not get away with that stuff with classical listeners.  Actually, classical listeners do tolerate some moaning, if it is genuine -- e.g. Radu Lupu.  Just not phony moaning from the likes of Jarrett.  Sorry for getting my pet peeve out in the open!

[Niko]

Does Anthony Ortega solo on any of those big band pieces?

Larry, thanks - never heard this Getz LP before.

Ortega is the featured soloist on Sunset Eyes and that appears to be his only solo. Most solos are by Castro and Edwards, followed by Bob Cooper... on the Edwards Tentett album, there are also several Freddie Hill solos

amazingly, they list soloists for all tunes where one might wonder (ie for the Zoot Sims/Lucky Thompson disc, the Big Band and the Teddy Edwards Tentett album):

http://www.joecastrojazz.com/discography

if the rightmost column is empty, it's not included in the set, second colum from right is soloists. For the big band album, this info is also here

http://sunnysidezone.com/album/joe-castro-lush-life-a-musical-journey

 

 

 

[AllenLowe]

I remember that Martin Williams piece; I think it's reprinted in Jazz Panorama. I will do my best to attempt to attempt to spend more time with Stan; I think a lot of it may be sonic; I cannot listen to Paul Desmond either.

[Dan Gould]

Anyone have thoughts about this "Or More" pricing strategy?

On the one hand I think $60 for a six disc set that seems to be nicely designed with informative liners is very fair, (and it includes high-quality download too), but what exactly is the purpose of the "you can pay more if you want" option?  To help them finance the next set?  Or just because you should feel guilty to get so much music at that price?

Its very odd to me and I don't think I've ever noticed an option like this with any other company or website.

[mjazzg]

I think the "or more" is standard layout for all Bandcamp pages.I don't recall ever seeing one without that option

[Dan Gould]

So has anyone else gotten this and listened to it?  

Disc 1, Abstract Candy, is a one-time-only for me but I'm sure others would enjoy the freely-improvised jams with Chico Hamilton and Buddy Collette among others. Certainly a surprise to hear Joe Castro in this context - he had a lot broader taste/skills than previously thought.

But the rest of the six discs were even better than I hoped, culminating in the two large-group discs which are best of all, imho.  I think if Clover Records had managed to put these two out at the time they'd have been recognized as great big band recordings of the era but it seems like Clover Records had all the ups and downs and fights and disputes that Castro and Doris Duke had as a couple. But thank God they put up the money for these two sessions, at least.

Really I can't recommend this set enough, and I can only hope that Sunnyside Records will come thru with at least another release from these tapes.  From the Joe Castro website, there were jams that featured Dexter Gordon, Cannonball, and Jack Sheldon among many others.  Here's hoping they are next up!

 

[kh1958]

I have it but am still listening to disco 1. I love the extended jams with Buddy Collette and Chico Hamilton. So far so good.

[Niko]

Started listening yesterday and am now in the middle of disc 6. I agree about the first disc - it sure is interesting and it must have been a fun evening for those involved, but it's not something I need to hear on a regular basis (the trio track worked a bit better though). Disc 2, Teddy Wilson with Getz and Sims, is fantastic, and so is Disc 4 with the classical Edwards/Castro/Vinegar/Higgins Quartet. The jams with Lucky Thompson and Oscar Pettiford on Disc 3 are great but I don't think they are better than my (very high) expectations... DIsc 5, the Joe Castro Big Band with Edwards is nice - although others (G. Wilson) have recorded (imho) recorded Big Band albums featuring Edwards that sound similarly (and a bit less smooth)... Disc 6 makes an excellent first impressions ... so: I'd say the middle discs are the highlight  - but it's beyond doubt a marvellous set.

Both the Westbrook and Castro estates have announced further releases (J. Pujol visited around Thanksgiving...) - let's hope that at least some of those materialize...

 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Niko said:

Started listening yesterday and am now in the middle of disc 6. I agree about the first disc - it sure is interesting and it must have been a fun evening for those involved, but it's not something I need to hear on a regular basis (the trio track worked a bit better though). Disc 2, Teddy Wilson with Getz and Sims, is fantastic, and so is Disc 4 with the classical Edwards/Castro/Vinegar/Higgins Quartet. The jams with Lucky Thompson and Oscar Pettiford on Disc 3 are great but I don't think they are better than my (very high) expectations... DIsc 5, the Joe Castro Big Band with Edwards is nice - although others (G. Wilson) have recorded (imho) recorded Big Band albums featuring Edwards that sound similarly (and a bit less smooth)... Disc 6 makes an excellent first impressions ... so: I'd say the middle discs are the highlight  - but it's beyond doubt a marvellous set.

Both the Westbrook and Castro estates have announced further releases (J. Pujol visited around Thanksgiving...) - let's hope that at least some of those materialize...

 

Very cool news.  Does this last mean more Carmell with Westbrook or just more Westbrook?  I liked him on the Carmell set but I really enjoyed Carmell the most.  I love these true archival releases, forgotten recordings rescued and restored and released. It's great that the market is strong enough even today that another batch makes good business sense.

On Disc 3 - what pleased me most was the trombonist, Truitt who I had never heard of before.  I thought he was really strong.

[Niko]

I suppose it just means more Westbrook (since the Carmell Jones' CD is rather short?) (the info i have is what Westbrook's daughter posted six weeks ago on the FW facebook page "Jordi Pujol of Fresh Sound Records will be in the room soon! Arriving from Barcelona the day after Thanksgiving to discuss the next CD! Stay tuned! (and stay in tune...)")

[Dan Gould]

Or maybe it's someone else of note that Westbrook jammed with. Either way it's good news, thanks for sharing it.

[Joe]

24 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

Or maybe it's someone else of note that Westbrook jammed with. Either way it's good news, thanks for sharing it.

Perhaps this version of the Lighthouse All-Stars?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY4In7p91Vw

[Niko]

His German wikipedia entry lists Warne Marsh, Art Pepper, June Christy and the Lighthouse Allstars as groups Westbrook played with... guess we just have to wait - I would expect that they again put a bigger name on the cover, and I guess chances are high that the next release will be more typical "West Coast Jazz"

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Westbrook

concerning Castro, I just found this old review of the Sims/Castro CD which has an interesting comments section:

http://www.bagatellen.com/archives/reviews/000497.html

mentioned are the following

Stan Getz-Zoot Sims-Gerry Mulligan-Oscar Pettiford (amazing)
*Billy Higgins-Teddy Edwards-Lucky Thompson-Leroy Vinnegar-
Teddy Wilson-Dexter Gordon-Anita O'Day-Chico Hamilton-
*Zoot Sims w/ Teddy Wilson
*Stan Getz w/ Teddy Wilson
Buddy Colette-Red Mitchell-Jimmy Gourley-Chuck Wayne-
Lou Levy-Ron Jefferson-Mel Lewis-Jack Sheldon-Buddy Jones-
Allen Eager-Philly Joe Jones-Paul Chambers-Vernon Alley-
Monte Budwig-Paul Motian-Sonny Truitt-Gary Frommer-George Handy.
*Oscar Pettiford-Lucky Thompson-Zoot Sims-
*A 50-minute ‘avant garde’ piece by Chico Hamilton that mixes classical & jazz.

where I have added stars for stuff in the current box... (no idea how to properly interpret the middle portion of that list)

and Castro Jr. informs us what the next Fantasy/Concord CD would have been a Stan Getz album which has some overlap with the present set:

"Actually the Fantasy/Concord merger didn't effect any releasing of the other material.
I decided not to sell anymore Masters at the current time. They wanted to Release the Stan Getz Teddy Wilson, Doris Duke, Joe Castro, and Beverly Getz (on one track) the only recording of Stan and his Wife and it's beautiful. It's Stan with Teddy on 3 tracks (They never played together or recorded except this date)
It’s a very strange Mix of Old Stride meets Cool School quite interesting. One With Doris Duke and Stan (She played piano very well I might add), and was taught by Teddy Wilson before my Father began teaching her."

 

 

[Dmitry]

I'm curious why such an enthusiastic response to the news of this release? It can't be Castro himself, can it? I bought a Castro LP, Lush Life...played it once, it was quite underwhelming. 

[Dan Gould]

1 hour ago, Dmitry said:

I'm curious why such an enthusiastic response to the news of this release? It can't be Castro himself, can it? I bought a Castro LP, Lush Life...played it once, it was quite underwhelming. 

No it's probably not Castro although Lush Life is far from his best.  Are you not aware of his work with Teddy Edwards? My enthusiasm was predicated on the presence of, in order:

Teddy Edwards (including all of the recording that was initially released as only half of an LP shared with Sonny Rollins)

Teddy Wilson

Zoot Sims

Stan Getz

Castro, despite Lush Life, is no slouch himself.  And, the enthusiasm I had for this release was more than matched by the actual music.

[Clunky]

This is a most interesting release. Nicely done , even if disc 1 is not exactly riveting.

[Dmitry]

On 1/23/2016 at 3:28 PM, Dan Gould said:

  Are you not aware of his work with Teddy Edwards?

Nope.

Listened to some samples of the Edwards tentet from this box. Sounds pretty good!

[Dan Gould]

Got a promo email from Sunnyside today so on a lark I inquired about a second set from the Castro archives and ... I got this response almost right away:

Hey Dan,

 

There are plans, as a matter of fact. We’ve been working on box #2. It will probably be released next year. 

 

I’m not positive that the Dexter Gordon material will be in the box.

 

All the best,

Bret Sjerven

Sunnyside

 

[JSngry]

"Hey Dan"?

What's wrong with "DUDE!"

Do you know this guy?

 

[Dan Gould]

38 minutes ago, JSngry said:

"Hey Dan"?

What's wrong with "DUDE!"

Do you know this guy?

 

My follow up email come New Years will definitely be "Dude! So what's the schedule for Box #2?" but no, I do not know the guy. 

[JSngry]

Ha!

I am getting increasingly curmudgeonly about assumed familiarity. It began when the son of a friend of mine graduated from college, and when I called him to congratulate him, his greeting was, and I quote, “ What's happening, motherfucker?” and I told him right there, no mother fucker, you don’t know me that well just yet, understand? And then he was all like sorry, Mr. Sangrey, and I was all, geezus kid, there’s something in between ya, know and blah blah blah, but...yeah, comfortable is always a good place to begin, but respectfully comfortable, because you don’t know me and I for damn sure don’t know you, so let’s neither of us make assumptions that can quite possibly turn sour and die. 

Hey!

[Dan Gould]

Got verification from by buddy Bret that the producer is finalizing production aspects in the month of February. He predicts a late summer release but offered no details on who Joe would be playing with on these new tapes.

[Dan Gould]

On 1/1/2019 at 0:03 PM, Dan Gould said:

Got verification from by buddy Bret that the producer is finalizing production aspects in the month of February. He predicts a late summer release but offered no details on who Joe would be playing with on these new tapes.

Sent email to Bret and just got update that the second box set is delayed into next year. No indication of what part of 2020. Hopefully no further issues and we see whatever treats are being released soon.

[Bill Nelson]

Joe Biden heard earlier today: "Listen, I've taken enough shit from Castro and I sure don't need a box set of it!

Joe Biden may well have thought that.  I couldn't possibly comment."  :-)

[Niko]

Just had a look at the discography section of the webpage for the older Joe Castro box

https://www.joecastrojazz.com/discography

there were quite a few sessions added recently with a code "Sunnyside SSC tbs" in the last column - which I assume is at least closely related to the stuff in the second box. The material from the old box has a "Sunnyside SSC 1391" there. No new material with Getz, so if I had to guess where the delay is coming from... Otherwise, it looks like sufficient material for more than one box set... there's a CD of 1956 Paul Bley in there (solo and in a trio w Hal Gaylor and Lennie McBrowne), some material by George Handy, and, predictably, a lot more Joe Castro... some with Teddy Edwarts, some where Castro sits in as the pianist in the Chamber Jazz Sextet...