Overlooked Saxophonists

[Steve Reynolds]

Ab Baars

Next step for me is picking up some of his recordings outside of ICP. His spots within ICP can be stunning.

 

Ab Baars isn't overlooked neither is Tobias Delius and Ronnie Scott IMHO

if either Ab Baars or Toby Delius were leading a band in NYC, about 20 people would show up.

Certainly overlooked and undervalued. Many supposed well rounded listeners here have barely ever heard either of them play

[Д.Д.]

Michael Moore

Matt Bauder

Jonathan Moritz

Rodrigo Amado

Alfred 23 Harth

Martin Küchen

Gianni Gebbia

Katsura Yamauchi

Lucio Capece 

Joachim Gies

Bobby Wellins

Mikolaj Trzaska

Marco Eneidi

[Cyril]

Ab Baars

Next step for me is picking up some of his recordings outside of ICP. His spots within ICP can be stunning.

 

Ab Baars isn't overlooked neither is Tobias Delius and Ronnie Scott IMHO

if either Ab Baars or Toby Delius were leading a band in NYC, about 20 people would show up.

Certainly overlooked and undervalued. Many supposed well rounded listeners here have barely ever heard either of them play

The world is a bigger than NYC !!!

Michael Moore

 

Alto sax and clarinet player Michael Moore is renowned all over the world for his beautiful tone and his rich musical imagination. He continuously brings in new impulses in the Amsterdam improv scene, as a writing member of ICP Orchestra or as the leader of his own band. The California-born reeds player combines the best of different worlds: the finesse of the American jazz tradition, the anarchy of New Dutch Swing and the unusual sounds of non-Western folk music.  De band has a solid lineup with pianist Harmen Fraanje, double bassist Clemens van der Feen and drummer Michael Vatcher, with whom Moore has performed for over thirty years in several groups, including Available Jelly.
 

 

[king ubu]

This thread is weird.

[Д.Д.]

I guess your point is that Moore is not particularly overlooked. Maybe. OK, here's some more:

Christine Abdelnour

Urs Leimgruber

Wally Shoup

Biggi Vinkeloe

Lotte Anker

Jean-Luc Guionnet

Michael Lewis

[clifford_thornton]

Ab Baars

Next step for me is picking up some of his recordings outside of ICP. His spots within ICP can be stunning.

 

Ab Baars isn't overlooked neither is Tobias Delius and Ronnie Scott IMHO

if either Ab Baars or Toby Delius were leading a band in NYC, about 20 people would show up.

Certainly overlooked and undervalued. Many supposed well rounded listeners here have barely ever heard either of them play

The world is a bigger than NYC !!!

Michael Moore

 

Alto sax and clarinet player Michael Moore is renowned all over the world for his beautiful tone and his rich musical imagination. He continuously brings in new impulses in the Amsterdam improv scene, as a writing member of ICP Orchestra or as the leader of his own band. The California-born reeds player combines the best of different worlds: the finesse of the American jazz tradition, the anarchy of New Dutch Swing and the unusual sounds of non-Western folk music.  De band has a solid lineup with pianist Harmen Fraanje, double bassist Clemens van der Feen and drummer Michael Vatcher, with whom Moore has performed for over thirty years in several groups, including Available Jelly.
 

 

If you're talking about the general jazz listening public, I think it's fair to say that Delius and Baars are certainly overlooked, Moore less so. Just because you or I or Sangrey know someone's work well doesn't mean they aren't somewhat obscure. I used to do jazz radio as a college DJ and as a community radio DJ. Some of these shows were streamed online so that conceivably people anywhere with internet access could listen. It seemed to me that even if an artist had 50 or 100 releases out that I could choose from, there would always be a bunch of listeners for whom that artist was a new discovery. I doubt that the average DownBeat or AAJ reader has given much listening room to the ICP Orchestra or knows Ronnie Scott outside of the club that bears his name. There's no harm in trying to educate people or mentioning someone as worthy of listening to more deeply, because someone here might benefit from the encouragement to do so. Sonny Stitt is not obscure but I've not listened to him very much, and need to do my homework - hell, I've been writing about the music for years, and still need to be reminded of people. That's why this board is such a great resource.

Yes, the world is far bigger than NYC. I've personally attended shows by Baars outside of ICP at which less than ten people were present, and the shows were fairly well-publicized. Great music but not everybody picks up on it.

[Cyril]

Great music but not everybody picks up on it.

That's the reason, clifford.  But the real jazz lovers are going to the locations where they are playing....Some years ago I went to a club in the Hague. I heard Lew Tabackin was performing. I count the people: 15 !
 Paying guests about 4 and 11 who belongs to this club.....

Edited August 1, 2015 by Cyril

[johnblitweiler]

You know who plays some wild-ass stuff? John Pierce (alto), one of George Russell's "Indiana boys" (Baker/Kiger/Plummer/Young/Hunt), on "The Stratus Seekers." Inside-out, vibrant sound and tonal manipulation, all over the horn and not many cats dealing with Ornette and Dolphy like that in '62. Certainly a great fit for George. I have a vague recollection of Pierce being around Indianapolis when I was a kid, and he may have even played down in Bloomington -- but I could be wrong about all of this. Anybody know his story or what happened to him? (Paging David Brent Johnson and Michael Weiss ...)

The only record I can think of that he's on is "Stratus Seekers," unless I'm missing something obvious. I did just stumble across a reference to an Ellis Marsalis session from '68 but not released until 2001ish that was taped in Vegas and Pierce apparently plays on at least two tunes, "Broadway" and "Embraceable You."  Anybody heard this? http://www.allaboutjazz.com/afternoon-session-ellis-marsalis-music-in-the-vines-review-by-dave-nathan.php

 

 

 

In the 1960s John Pierce was living in South Bend, working for Conn or Selmer in Elkhart. Don't know how long that lasted or if he's still in SB.

[Niko]

tried to google John Pierce earlier today and didn't get far, but apparently there's a prominent clarinet mouthpiece bearing his name, the best clarinet mouthpiece for playing Dixieland some argue - so that appears to check...

[sidewinder]

Ab Baars

Next step for me is picking up some of his recordings outside of ICP. His spots within ICP can be stunning.

 

Ab Baars isn't overlooked neither is Tobias Delius and Ronnie Scott IMHO

 

Re: Scott. As a club owner I agree. As a saxophonist I strongly disagree with your statement, both now and whilst he was with us. I was thinking in terms of the general listening public, who totally failed to appreciate how good he was.

Add Tommy Whittle and Harold Land as well.

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by sidewinder

[John Tapscott]

Steve Kaldestad

[Niko]

Concerning "John Pierce", he's slightly less obscure under the other (probably correct) spelling "John Peirce"... at least, there is a memorial album which is reviewed here

http://www.cadencejazzmagazine.com/membersonly/admin/assets/CadenceOctober2013double.pdf

there's also an informative review here:

http://www.amazon.com/Memorial-Album-John-Peirce/dp/B00HAWAT98

 

[mikeweil]

Of those already mentioned, I'd underline:

Tad Shull, Harold Ashby.

Germany's Günter Kronberg, who never was recorded at the level of excitement he delivered in performance.

Steve Hall, who impressed me on Kevin Hays' go round CD on Blue Note: great, big sound, much soul.

Allen Eager!

[king ubu]

since Niko forgot to mention him ():

Jacques Pelzer

 

and big yes on Günter Kronberg!

let me also throw in Jan "Ptaszyn" Wroblewski - while I don't care for most eastern european fusion or jazz-rock, he did some great things!

 

also, looking elsewhere ... might be s a stretch to mention Dudu Pukwana, but a few other ZA guys like Lulu Masilela, Barney Rachabane, Basil Coetzee, Robbie Jansen, Winston "Mankunku" Ngozi, Ntemi Piliso or Kippie Moeketsi definitely deserve mention. Also the sadly deceased Zim Ngqawana. Some of them may still be well known in ZA, but not far beyond that and beyond a small fan base. But they all have their say on the instrument. Piliso is kind of a Hodges-like figure, while Kippie was the one introducing modern sounds into ZA jazz, alongside Dollar Brand. Hard to find much by any of them, alas.

[BillF]

Steve Kaldestad

[Peter Friedman]

Assume this is the Park/Kenton version of "Street of Dreams" referenced by Peter above: He sounds good -- personal take on the vocabulary, like he's been living it all in real time for a long time. A life spent making music and making a living, sometimes one or the other, sometimes both at the same time. Coda: Not sure who wrote the chart but I pretty much hate it -- the Kenton thing I don't need. But it is what it is and that's cool for what it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VijQAMq7KeA

Also appears to be several cuts on Youtube of Park's LP "If Winter Comes," which apparently documents some gigs in 1975 and '79 in Kansas City and Texarkana (I Love You/I'll Remember April/I Can't Get Started, etc)

 

 

The arrangement was by Stan Kenton. Personally I thought the arrangement sounded just what one might expect from that Band. It has the "classic" Kenton sound. Though I am not crazy about most of Kenton's recordings, and most of the tracks on this particular album are not to my taste, as a feature for John Park I liked this arrangement And as I said before, Park's solo is, to my ears, beautiful.. Anyone at all familiar with Kenton could pick out that this was his band immediately.

[optatio]

Johannes Schleiermacher

here with Gunter Hampel:

[jlhoots]

Gebhard Ullmann

[Mark Stryker]

Concerning "John Pierce", he's slightly less obscure under the other (probably correct) spelling "John Peirce"... at least, there is a memorial album which is reviewed here

http://www.cadencejazzmagazine.com/membersonly/admin/assets/CadenceOctober2013double.pdf

there's also an informative review here:

http://www.amazon.com/Memorial-Album-John-Peirce/dp/B00HAWAT98

 

Thanks for this. Appreciate it. I've edited original post to reflect the correct spelling. John L: I don't believe Peirce was in South Bend in the early 90s when I was there.

[marcello]

Did anyone mention Joel Frahm?

He's great in all styles, but is overlooked by the public, not the musicians.

https://youtu.be/G4Q7FpKB6sk

[johnblitweiler]

Thanks, Niko and Mark. If I read the Cadence and Amazon reviews rightly, John Peirce's health kept him from being prolific. A long-ago source of indeterminate reliability told me that Peirce claimed to have taught Charlie Parker about higher extensions of chords. The Jim Haden on Peirce's CD - did he play in a Las Vegas session and what was Charlie Haden's bass-playing brother's name? The brother who played bass in Nevada show bands?

[BeBop]

Perhaps unmentioned because he isn't overlooked: Richie Kamuca

Overlooked, in my opinion: Nino Tempo.  Not so much the stuff with April Stevens, but with Maynard's Dream Band.

[king ubu]

Gebhard Ullmann

Not overlooked, as all of 13 people (including organisers) went to his last Zurich gig.

 

Seriously: very good musician, most certainly overlooked indeed!

[HutchFan]

Not to belabor the obvious, but the term "overlooked" could be applied to nearly every jazz saxophone players these days. 

A few months ago, I saw David Liebman in NYC and there were maybe 20 people in the audience.  And Liebman is an NEA Jazz Master! 

[BillF]

Not to belabor the obvious, but the term "overlooked" could be applied to nearly every jazz saxophone players these days. 

A few months ago, I saw David Liebman in NYC and there were maybe 20 people in the audience.  And Liebman is an NEA Jazz Master! 

Liebman is doing badly! About 50 turned out to see him in Manchester in May. It goes without saying that the music was superb.