Fire Music: The Film

[clifford_thornton]

Not sure where this should go, but anyway, thought it might be interesting to have a little dialogue on a sight-unseen film called Fire Music, which has been in the works for well over a decade. Tom Surgal (drummer for The Blue Humans and White Out) has been collecting interviews on many of free music's progenitors and hopes to tell the story of the music on film (sort of an anti-Ken Burns but I think this has been filming since before Burns' Jazz aired). Kickstarter link below.

Fire Music Kickstarter

I'm sure a lot of the interviews are strong, but the text accompanying the project and some of the talking heads rub me a little bit wrong. Surgal is a nice guy and knows his stuff; I'm sure Nels is and does too. But I fear a lack of nuance - that it might focus more on screaming rebellion and less on the continuum, or the idea that much of this music developed as a parallel to the innovations that came out of the 1940s (i.e., bebop) while also signifying a break with traditional structure. Then again, I wasn't there in the 1960s and can only gather what I can from the musicians I've interviewed and the things I hear (and how I hear them). 

Anyway, curious to hear people's thoughts and of course to see the film when it hits.

[MomsMobley]

ooof. you're too kind, CT. that text is awful on numerous levels and someone should really step up to Tom Surgal and explain that because if that's reflective if his intended presentation... better not to have bothered. the "outsider" schtick is particularly galling-- and insulting to everyone from King Oliver on down (Satchmo to Fletcher to Sun Ra etc)... how were Coltrane or Dolphy outsiders again? i'm going to ignore "Fire Music" reductionism for but how did 'free jazz'-- ok, here I have to ignore the inane 'musicology' (sic) displayed in this pitch (i.e. composition versus supposed 'free' 'collective' improvisation)-- ah forget it. passages likes these-- "ideas" likes these-- are misleading, simple-minded, WRONG. "Good intentions" fine but with such comes RESPONSIBILITY and from the evidence put before us... (Nels Cline a great musician & surely knows better but he's obviously just a 'friendly name' to...)

It gave voice to a disenfranchised generation galvanized by the burgeoning civil rights and anti-war movements. Free Jazz broke all the rules, challenging the very notion of music by jettisoning conventional melodic structure and traditional timekeeping in favor of collective improvisation.

 

The '60s was a politically charged era, and no music reflected the tenor of the times better than Free Jazz. The resounding cries of atonal saxophones and the spastic pounding of drums reflected the growing indignation of a youth in revolt.

 

This was an angry form of Jazz that mirrored the more turbulent times in which it was being played. The young mavericks who pioneered this movement came to create some of the the most unconventional sounds ever heard. They eschewed every preconceived notion of what music was, abandoning melody, tonality, set time rhythms, the very concept of composition itself, creating new songs spontaneously, on the fly. 

"There wil never, ever be another Duke Ellington." -- Bill Dixon (from "Odyssey" interview disc)

[clifford_thornton]

Thanks Moms; you're hitting on the head the exact nails I had issue with. Guess I didn't want to lay in too hard without a finished product but the vibe harshes my aesthetic and intellectual mellow. It also doesn't help the detractors who consider free music "noise," and there's a tone of fetishized-other in some of the text/talking heads that doesn't go over well with me. I've met Tom a few times and he appears to be a sensible dude, so perhaps this is just a weird way of selling the thing? If so, it's missing more than a few marks...

I guess what I'm getting at is that, while I appreciate and agree with the political aspects of this music, I've spent however many years writing about and talking on-air about this music, trying to dispel the idea that it's merely aggressive angry-MAN music by people who couldn't sight read. All that depth, tradition, and interest goes out the window with texts and approaches like the ones exhibited here.

The idea that they will be using footage of Bill Dixon in this film (cribbed from Imagine the Sound), when Bill wouldn't have lent his name to some bullshit characterization like this, really pisses me off.

[Steve Reynolds]

Probably the ugliest grouping of words within the inanity is "spastic pounding of the drums"

thirded here

the "trailers" make it sound like these great musicians were simply angry black men fighting the power.

plus maybe some white guys who joined the youthful revolt

egads

[clifford_thornton]

Sunny Murray is an odd guy, but a brilliant musician and far from a spaz. Hell, Surgal's drumming looks rather controlled when I've seen it. 

Of course, fighting the power was part of it, but it was only one part. If "all art is political," well, good, then what?

[robertoart]

Probably the ugliest grouping of words within the inanity is "spastic pounding of the drums"

thirded here

the "trailers" make it sound like these great musicians were simply angry black men fighting the power.

plus maybe some white guys who joined the youthful revolt

egads

maybe he's just read too much Downbeat.....Blood Ulmer's guitar playing on Illusions was described as''spastic convoluted guitar playing'. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by robertoart

[MomsMobley]

To be "fair," Surgal is being interviewed on WKCR tonight & he's notably better spoken, more "understanding" than the Kickstarter text conveys. Host was funny, asked him if there was any coverage of the Japanese scene... there is not. (Nor, I think, should there be.) The movie qua movie, who knows-- have ya'll seen Peter Davis Hearts and Minds (1974)? I doubt it will be that ... Surgal did beat the anti-Wynton, Crouch drum some, which negative sentiments I share but please, the music's financial viability was in heaps of trouble well before those turds soiled the throne.

[johnblitweiler]

Moms, there has been a Japanese free-improvisation scene that's little known over here - Derek Bailey, Peter Kowald, Joelle Leandre are some Westerners who have recorded with some of those musicians. I would like to hear and know a lot more about the distinctive qualities of free improvisation in Japan. One musician whom I've been taken by was Kaoru Abe, who seemed to invent the saxophone all over again each time he played it.

[clifford_thornton]

I don't know if there's an English language book that covers this in detail - feel like there was some mention of something but I forget what/where.

Certainly I share an affection for the Japanese scene(s) with user:Homefromtheforest. Toshi Tsuchitori (drummer) was active in New York and studied with Milford Graves; other drummers like Zen Matsuura and Tatsuya Nakamura are/were also connected to NYC free music in the '80s. I thought Motoharu Yoshizawa made a few appearances over here too. Sabu Toyozumi was briefly part of the AACM before returning to Japan via Paris. But I guess the goal of the movie is not to chase down every obscure rabbit-hole; that said, leaving out Japan seems pretty short-sighted.

[Chuck Nessa]

I don't know if there's an English language book that covers this in detail - feel like there was some mention of something but I forget what/where.

Sabu Toyozumi was briefly part of the AACM before returning to Japan via Paris. But I guess the goal of the movie is not to chase down every obscure rabbit-hole; that said, leaving out Japan seems pretty short-sighted.

never heard of that. Details?

[Homefromtheforest]

I have a photocopy of a flyer for a 1971 gig at the jazz record mart listing Sabu Toyozumi performing with George Lewis, Roscoe Mitchell, Malachi Favors, Douglas Ewart, Joseph Jarman, Aaron Dodd, and Steve McCall.  He also released an album in the mid 70s entitled "Sabu-message to Chicago" where he does a version of "people in sorrow".

 

The Japanese free jazz scene is great..figures like Masayuki Takayangi, Masahiko Togashi, and Masahiko Sato are the giants but lets not forget Mototeru Takagi, Masabumi Kikuchi, Motoharu Yoshizawa, Keizo Innoue, Toshinoro Kondo, and many more!

[MomsMobley]

I don't know if there's an English language book that covers this in detail - feel like there was some mention of something but I forget what/where.

Certainly I share an affection for the Japanese scene(s) with user:Homefromtheforest. Toshi Tsuchitori (drummer) was active in New York and studied with Milford Graves; other drummers like Zen Matsuura and Tatsuya Nakamura are/were also connected to NYC free music in the '80s. I thought Motoharu Yoshizawa made a few appearances over here too. Sabu Toyozumi was briefly part of the AACM before returning to Japan via Paris. But I guess the goal of the movie is not to chase down every obscure rabbit-hole; that said, leaving out Japan seems pretty short-sighted.

JL & CT, yes thanks-- I didn't actually mean to dismiss the Japanese scene as such, just that the movie is already overstuffed trying to limn the American, Euro & Euro-American scenes there seem s no way to reasonably incorporate the Japanese narrative, let alone the additional cost, likely language barrier etc. I could see fitting in Coltrane "Live in Japan" reference & whatever direct Japanese-American connections ya'll note there but much more than that seems someone else's project, picture.

Edited August 9, 2015 by MomsMobley

[clifford_thornton]

Toyozumi is mentioned as participating in rehearsals on p. 285 of Lewis' book, and his website lists that he joined the AACM in 1971. I am not sure how long the membership lasted but can ask a friend in Japan who has helped with Sabu's archive.

[CJ Shearn]

There's something utterly hypnotic about the Japanese free scene when I've watched videos of Keiji Haino, so fascinating.

[optatio]

...

The Japanese free jazz scene is great..figures like Masayuki Takayangi, Masahiko Togashi, and Masahiko Sato are the giants but lets not forget Mototeru Takagi, Masabumi Kikuchi, Motoharu Yoshizawa, Keizo Innoue, Toshinoro Kondo, and many more!

Not to forget the Yosuke Yamashita Trio: Yosuke Yamashita (p), Seiichi Nakamura (ts), later replaced by Akira Sakata (as) and Takeo Moriyama (dr).

[clifford_thornton]

^ indeed, fantastic unit.

[clifford_thornton]

I don't know if there's an English language book that covers this in detail - feel like there was some mention of something but I forget what/where.

Sabu Toyozumi was briefly part of the AACM before returning to Japan via Paris. But I guess the goal of the movie is not to chase down every obscure rabbit-hole; that said, leaving out Japan seems pretty short-sighted.

never heard of that. Details?

Looks like I have an email date with Sabu himself coming together. All questions will be answered, I hope. But this tidbit stands out: apparently he was one of Hamid Drake's teachers in the 1970s.