Pocket Trumpet or Pocket Cornet

[Luciano]

I have always believed that Don Cherry was playing a pocket trumpet (a legend circulate
about it: that that trumpet was playing during the America Civil War)
Now I read:
"...Very few name players are identified with pocket cornets.
Certainly the best known would be the late free jazz player Don Cherry,
who played a 1930s vintage Besson MEHA pocket cornet (almost always
identified as a pocket trumpet)."

I have read that he before he was playing a Pakistani pocket cornet...!

See: http://www.pocketcornets.com/html/pocket_players.html

Many jazz critics now write "pocket cornet".
Someone known something about this question? Is it "cornet" or "trumpet"?
Luciano

[king ubu]

Interesting! ... when I heard Anthony Braxton recently, Taylor Ho Bynum was announced as playing pocket trumpet, but the instrument looked more like a regular cornet to me ... though I'm sure the guy who announced the band got the info straight from Taylor - Don Cherry's regular instrument (as seen on those photos) looks much smaller for sure, but I had always assumed to be a pocket trumpet, not a pocket cornet.

[Luciano]

Ciao King Ugu

probably I will write in italian considering you living in Switzerlan.

I'm agree with you in order the pocket trumpet. I knew Don Cherry and I organized severals concert in Italy for him but unfortunatly

I never asked him nothing about the pocke (as I assumed it was a pocket trumpt)

But, if you search on the web you will see that now several musicians write: pocket cornet

Many thanks for your answer, if his son David will reply me about Pocket cornet or Trumpet I will tell you

Luciano

[Joe]

Both as described as pocket trumpets, but this instrument

sure looks a bit different from this instrument

Perhaps some of the confusion stems from the distinctions between the piccolo trumpet versus the pocket trumpet? Curson would appear to be paying the former.

[Luciano]

Thanks Joe

Yes the Cherry instrument is different that tose in the  Ted's photoGreetings

Luciano

[clifford_thornton]

Curson's looks like a pocket cornet. I know he played the piccolo trumpet later on.

From a trumpet forum, on the subject of Cherry's instrument:

Early on, a nasty thing made in Pakistan. Later (don't know exactly when), he was given a presentation horn made by Besson, the pocket trumpet he played to the end of his life. Besson never sold the type of pocket trumpet he played. There are different stories -- that the trumpet was custom-made for a play, or that Besson made a handful for executives -- but they were never sold to the public.

[Luciano]

Thank you clifford,

considerer your nickname you are a trumpet's expert.

Well: if I understand well (I must apologize for my bad English);

1) Don played a pocket trumpet made in Pakistan. Yhat wasn't a good instrument;

2) After he plays a Besson's pocket trumpet, not cornet

In conclusion: Don plays Always a pocket trumpet, never a pocket cornet

Hoping in your new answer I sent you my best greetings

Luciano

[clifford_thornton]

I think that's the closest I've come to an answer, but I'm far from an expert... 

[king ubu]

still confused (and I only see one pic above, the first one ist just a part of a URL so I can't even look it up) - this here would then be that Besson thing?

while this here would be the nasty thing:

so, what's this:

regular cornet?

anyway, the one in the top pic is MUCH smaller than what was introduced as Taylor Ho Bynum's pocket trumpet (is Alexander Hawkins reading this, he might know about Taylor's instruments?)

 

[clifford_thornton]

I think you're correct, yeah, although the top photo I thought was shot in the early 60s.

Bottom is a cornet.

[king ubu]

Okay ... and on my work computer the Curson cover shows, at home it wouldn't - weird.

[Luciano]

Ciao King Ubu

I can try to explain something about organissimo. I'm not sure to use this forum (and any other forum) correctly.

SO I have a question about your last post: okay... and on my ...

Well: it is an answer to clifford thornton who wrote:

I think you're correct, yeah, although the top photo I thought was shot in the early 60s.

Bottom is a cornet. ?

Anyway, to return at my former question and in a simple manner:

you think that the pocket used by Cherry was a p. trumpet, a p. cornet or, why not, he use all two during his career?

Thanks and greetings

Luciano

[king ubu]

I'm confused, since I still don't even know what a "pocket cornet" is ... those on the top two Cherry photos I posted seem to be pocket trumpets, both. Wiki has a pic that makes that conclusion seem correct:

I also just found this:

Pocket Trumpets are nearly the same, except that they have slightly larger receivers to accept the larger trumpet mouthpiece. In fact, aside from the mouthpiece receiver, some of the pocket trumpets I’ve examined are really pocket cornets with respect to their design “wrap.”

source: http://www.pocketcornets.com/html/about_pocket_cornets.html

So I guess I'll never really be able to tell them apart anyway

[Luciano]

thanks

Luciano

[Luciano]

Ornette Coleman - Una Muy Bonita, Part 1&2  (Atlantic 5008)

Don Cherry (cornet) Ornette Coleman (alto sax) Charlie Haden (bass) Billy Higgins (drums)

NYC, October 8, 1959

4922Una Muy Bonita, Part 1

4923Una Muy Bonita, Part 2

The two titles above are the same we can listen to in:

Change Of The Century  (Atlantic LP 1327)

or are them different?

Luciano