La Mer

[Larry Kart]

Moving on to Jeux de vagues, this is where Boulez (Sony) comes into its own. In the words of David Hamilton (from a 1969 review in High Fidelity), "We have many performances of this that are marvels of orchestral execution and transparency, but they are generally melody-oriented, the progress of movement governed by the limits and climaxes of the principal 'tunes.' While the New Philharmonia misses a few niceties of ensemble, Boulez nevertheless achieves a remarkable realization of the multi-layered textures...."

OTOH I wouldn't say that Inghelbrecht is any less tuned in to those textures, and the spontaneous-seeming surge and swell of his phrasing (at times one comes close to feeling salt spray) does make Boulez sound just a bit tight-lipped and clinical. The spotlighting in the Bernstein recording goes over the top here; I'm still struck by Lennie's insights and conductorial control, but one begins to feel that this is the score for a deleted scene from Fantasia. Ormandy (Sony) remains very good -- not at all vulgar, which is the common rap on him, and the sheer quality of his orchestra is something else.

Found an account of what was revised in the 1909 revision of the score. Nothing about tymps behind cellos being subtracted or added.

[Chuck Nessa]

Any info about the orchestration edits made by Toscanini. He evidently said D sanctioned them.

[Larry Kart]

“Toscanini’s brightly-lit performances had a cathartic effect on contemporary audiences, but it is debatable whether they represented the final, definitive revelation of La mer or just a very impressive exhibition of the conductor’s art. One decidedly negative aspect of Toscanini’s La mer was his modification of passages, including two full pages of full score that ‘he actually rewrote … and pasted … into his copy of the authentic text.’ Under Toscanini’s direction, as under Koussevitsky’s, La mer became an orchestral showpiece of the first order — a noisier, more brilliant work than seems justified by the authority of the score or the illuminating Paris recordings.” — Simon Trezise, “Debussy’s La mer”

“Toscanini’s personal copy of La mer … is now housed in the Toscanini Collection in the Music Division of New York Public Library for the Performing Arts. — “Debussy and His World”

Toscanini’s account: “I tell Debussy are many things not clear: and he say is all right to make changes.” Cesare Civetta, “The Real Toscanini"

[Spontooneous]

Been meaning to chime in for a couple of days but haven't had a chance until today.

"Original" and "revised" scores are on IMSLP, along with a copy of the manuscript: here

For me, all-time favorite recording will always be Reiner. Astounding clarity, with unstoppable forward motion. In the first movement, the slow intro may be controversial, but it's magical, and the decrescendo with percussion just before the cello passage never sounded better or more avant-garde. And check out the first 15 seconds of the second movement.

After decades of respecting the piece, this was the recording that made me fall in love.

It's probably easiest to get these days on a CD coupled with Respighi's Pines and Fountains, unfortunately. Get it anyway.

[Teasing the Korean]

Been meaning to chime in for a couple of days but haven't had a chance until today.

"Original" and "revised" scores are on IMSLP, along with a copy of the manuscript: here

For me, all-time favorite recording will always be Reiner. Astounding clarity, with unstoppable forward motion. In the first movement, the slow intro may be controversial, but it's magical, and the decrescendo with percussion just before the cello passage never sounded better or more avant-garde. And check out the first 15 seconds of the second movement.

After decades of respecting the piece, this was the recording that made me fall in love.

It's probably easiest to get these days on a CD coupled with Respighi's Pines and Fountains, unfortunately. Get it anyway.

I have this recording, and I agree it is very good, but I don't think the cello passage we've been discussing is executed as well as it is on many of the others.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Teasing the Korean

[soulpope]

http://www.amazon.com/Debussy-Ravel-Orchestral-Works-Claude/dp/B008DK3Q96

Great set.

I love Debussy. Such wonderful music.

agreed

[Teasing the Korean]

Not to change the subject, but did Debussy write that much orchestral music? I keep coming across the same 5 or 6 works.

That said, if he'd written nothing other than La Mer, I would be satisfied.

[Larry Kart]

Minus apprentice stuff:

Orchestral:

Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune (1894)

Nocturnes (with female choir in Sirènes) (1897–1899)

• Nuages

• Fêtes

• Sirènes

Le roi Lear (1904)

La mer (1903–1905)

Images, Set 3

• Gigues (1909–1912)

• Ibéria (1905–1908)

• Par les rues et par les chemins

• Les parfums de la nuit

• Le matin d'un jour de fête

• Rondes de printemps (1905–1909)

Ballet:

Khamma

Jeux (1912–1913)

La boîte à joujoux (1913)

Concerted works:

Fantaisie for piano and orchestra (1889–1890)

"Rhapsodie" for alto saxophone and piano or orchestra (1901–1911)

Première rhapsodie for clarinet and piano or orchestra (1909–1910)

Petite pièce for clarinet and piano or orchestra (1910)

Chamber:

String Quartet in G minor (1893), Opus 10

Danses for cross-strung harp and string quintet (1904)

• Danse sacrée

• Danse profane

Syrinx for flute (1913)

Cello Sonata (1915)

Sonata for flute, viola and harp (1915)

Sonata for violin and piano (1916–1917) a (1911–1912)

[Spontooneous]

Aren't there questions about how much of Khamma he actually wrote? And some of the orchestration on the Images was farmed out.

[Teasing the Korean]

I listen to La Mer frequently in Summer, and since this thread has started, I can't stop!

[mikeweil]

Missing from Larry's list is the Première Suite d'Orchestre, written at the end of Debussy's studies at the Paris Conservatoire, 1883-84; it was presumed lost but the score was rediscovered by chance in a New York library, the version for piano duet as well as the original orchestration by the composer himself. Its first recording is included on the disc by Les Siècles I posted above. I received this CD today and will report.

Several composers participated in the orchestration of several other works, but I will have to consult some books first before I can comment on this aspect.

[johnblitweiler]

Surely the orchestra version of "Petite Suite" wasn't apprentice stuff. It counts, even if some else was orchstrator.

[mikeweil]

Listening to the Première Suite right now, although an early work it shows very much of his trademark sounds. It his own orchestration, which makes it all the more interesting - a few bars were missing and were reconstruected from the piano four hands version by Philippe Monoury.

As for the other works I need to get some special literature stored in the basement to look up the orchestrators.

[mikeweil]

Just checked the passage Larry mentioned in his opeing posts on Roth's recording, and it is audibly there, that kettledrum stroke. The period instruments sound marvellous, especially the cellos, and the recording quality is pristine - I repeat my strong recommendation. Don't hold back if you dislike period instruments in older music, it works magic with early 20th century music. Any disc of Les Siècles is great and revealing.

[Peter Friedman]

Minus apprentice stuff:

Orchestral:

Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune (1894)

Nocturnes (with female choir in Sirènes) (1897–1899)

• Nuages

• Fêtes

• Sirènes

Le roi Lear (1904)

La mer (1903–1905)

Images, Set 3

• Gigues (1909–1912)

• Ibéria (1905–1908)

• Par les rues et par les chemins

• Les parfums de la nuit

• Le matin d'un jour de fête

• Rondes de printemps (1905–1909)

Ballet:

Khamma

Jeux (1912–1913)

La boîte à joujoux (1913)

Concerted works:

Fantaisie for piano and orchestra (1889–1890)

"Rhapsodie" for alto saxophone and piano or orchestra (1901–1911)

Première rhapsodie for clarinet and piano or orchestra (1909–1910)

Petite pièce for clarinet and piano or orchestra (1910)

Chamber:

String Quartet in G minor (1893), Opus 10

Danses for cross-strung harp and string quintet (1904)

• Danse sacrée

• Danse profane

Syrinx for flute (1913)

Cello Sonata (1915)

Sonata for flute, viola and harp (1915)

Sonata for violin and piano (1916–1917) a (1911–1912)

Did you forget the Piano Trio in G Minor ?

[mikeweil]

Okay, here's a list taken from a work list compiled by Rainer Riehn for a 1981 German publication on Debussy:

Khamma - orchestration started by Debussy, finished by Charles Koechlin

Jeux - orchestration by Debussy

La boîte à jouyoux - orchestration started by Debussy, finished by André Caplet

Première suite pour orchestre - orchestration by Debussy, a few bars missing were reconstructed from the piano four hands version by Philippe Manoury.

Printemps - orchestration by Debussy

Fantaisie pour piano et orchestre - orchestration by Debussy

Prélude à l'après-midi d'une faune - orchestration by Debussy

Nocturnes - orchestration by Debussy

Rapsodie pour orchestre et saxophone - orchestration started by Debussy, finished by Roger Ducasse

Deux danses pour harpe chromatique et orchestre - orchestration by Debussy

La Mer - orchestration by Debussy

Images - orchestration by Debussy

The only work were substantial parts of the composition may be by someone else is Khamma, although Koechlin himself did not even mention his participation in his monograph on Debussy. But it depends on how much you see orchestration as part of the compositional process.

[mikeweil]

A befriended conductor heartily recommenden the 4 CD box by Louis Froment and the Orchestra of Radio Luxembourg - good sound, French sound and feeling - I ordered a copy - can be found ceaply on amazon.

p.s. most modern conductors play the movements of Images in an order different from the first performance - Jos van Immerseel restored the original order as conducted by André Caplet:

Images pour orchestre

Nr. 1 Rondes de printemps

Nr. 2 Gigues

Nr. 3 Iberia: Par les rues et par les chemins

Les parfums de la nuit

Le matin d'un jour de fête

[Teasing the Korean]

I recently attended a performance of La Mer, by an excellent community orchestra.  

The tympani hit that Larry described in the first post was very prominent in this performance.  I unfortunately did not have a chance to chat with the conductor afterwards.