Bud Powell on SteepleChase? Any other post '53 Powell recs?

[xybert]

How do people here rate Powell's Golden Circle recordings for SteepleChase? The Penguin Guide (ninth edition) gives them 2.5 stars. I need more Bud, and i don't know where else to turn. To put it in perspective, leader wise i have all of the studio albums apart from the Bird album, the Cannonball album and the Roost material. Also have Inner Fires, the ESP Birdland set, Paris Sessions and Massey Hall. I pretty much wouldn't be without any of it, so with that in mind, would the SteepleChase albums likely meet my standards? Any other recommendations would be more than welcome. Cheers.

[paul secor]

I haven't heard all of the Steeplechase recordings, but what I have heard I haven't kept. I'll leave it at that. Perhaps I heard the wrong albums.

There is other post 1953 Bud that I'd rather listen to. From the European years:

some of the material on Shaw Nuff (Xanadu/EPM) - "Idaho" with Johnny Griffin is wonderful.

A Portrait of Thelonious (Columbia/Sony)

Bouncing with Bud (Storyville/Delmark)

In Paris (Reprise) - though I haven't listened to that last one in a while.

Edited May 2, 2015 by paul secor

[John L]

If you are as big a Bud Powell fan as you seem to be, I don't think that you will be disappointed with the Golden Circle recordings.

Two later live CDs to look out for with quite strong performances from 1962:

Live in Lausanne

Live in Geneva

[mjzee]

Do you know about Live At Birdland 1957? It's a limited edition, but Eastward seems to still have it in stock: http://www.eastwindimport.com/product-info.asp?CategoryName=Marshmallow+Records&ProductID=2138

[JSngry]

Bouncing with Bud, yeah, that's the one right there. Magic. In Paris as well. More magic. But of the two, Bouncing with Bud, yeah. Just....endless "on".

I like all of Bud, truthfully, because there's not ever a story not being told, or trying to be told. I don't think Bud could have "coasted" under any circumstances. But some of those stories are more...difficult for me to enjoy than others. Having said that, the 1961 association in and around Don Byas was wonderful (besides the Columbia things, also look for the Americans In Europe Impulse things, couldn't tell you what CD form that's taken, sorry).

Definitely do not miss the Essen Jazz Festival gig with Coleman Hawkins. I have it on Black Lion LP, but it was also on Fantasy/Debut before that, and no doubt has been other places since, probably on Black Lion CD. Strong Hawk, strong Bud, OP, and Klook.

Also, the whole Blue Note 50s run was strong, I think. Much stronger than the RCAs and most of the Verves. It's coming from a different place, but there's no doubt about what is being said either.

The most uncomfortable one for me (in a bad way) is The Return Of Bud Powell on Roulette. Sad. Not tragic, just sad. However, "'Round Midnight" from the extremely uneven (imo) Ups and Downs is mesmerizing to me, it's so far....gone as to be from another world.

Bud Powell and Lester Young don't often get "linked" stylistically or anything, but they were both two of the least disguised souls this music ahs produced, I think. They both can break your heart.

[paul secor]

Bouncing with Bud, yeah, that's the one right there. Magic. In Paris as well. More magic. But of the two, Bouncing with Bud, yeah. Just....endless "on".

I like all of Bud, truthfully, because there's not ever a story not being told, or trying to be told. I don't think Bud could have "coasted" under any circumstances. But some of those stories are more...difficult for me to enjoy than others. Having said that, the 1961 association in and around Don Byas was wonderful (besides the Columbia things, also look for the Americans In Europe Impulse things, couldn't tell you what CD form that's taken, sorry).

Definitely do not miss the Essen Jazz Festival gig with Coleman Hawkins. I have it on Black Lion LP, but it was also on Fantasy/Debut before that, and no doubt has been other places since, probably on Black Lion CD. Strong Hawk, strong Bud, OP, and Klook.

Also, the whole Blue Note 50s run was strong, I think. Much stronger than the RCAs and most of the Verves. It's coming from a different place, but there's no doubt about what is being said either.

The most uncomfortable one for me (in a bad way) is The Return Of Bud Powell on Roulette. Sad. Not tragic, just sad. However, "'Round Midnight" from the extremely uneven (imo) Ups and Downs is mesmerizing to me, it's so far....gone as to be from another world.

Bud Powell and Lester Young don't often get "linked" stylistically or anything, but they were both two of the least disguised souls this music ahs produced, I think. They both can break your heart.

"Bud Powell and Lester Young don't often get "linked" stylistically or anything, but they were both two of the least disguised souls this music ahs produced, I think. They both can break your heart."

True words, Jim.

[B. Goren.]

I have these 5 CDs and listen to them more often than to his Blue Note recordings.

[AllenLowe]

I have copies of the Lausanne 1962, which is some of the best later Bud. I'll send you one if you like. email me your mailing address:

allenlowe5@gmail.com

though in truth I rarely listen to late Bud; aside from Lausanne, the best, I think, are the Duke Ellington session and Bud Plays Monk.

Edited May 2, 2015 by AllenLowe

[John L]

Bouncing with Bud, yeah, that's the one right there. Magic

Bouncing With Bud also dates from 1962, like the Lausanne and Geneva concerts. It seems that Bud was in a sort of resurgence at that time. Back to the original question of this thread, the other Bud Powell from 1962 is the Golden Circle, which I also consider to be highly worthwhile Bud.

[xybert]

Thanks a lot for the responses all. I won't respond individually to everyone but yeah this has really given me something to work with.

I have Portrait, Bouncing and In Paris and really enjoy them. So on my 'worth checking out' list goes:

Shaw Nuff (Xanadu/EPM)

Live in Lausanne

Live in Geneva

Essen Jazz Festival (Black Lion)

Live At Birdland 1957

The SteepleChase Golden Circle recordings

On my 'probably best to avoid or at least leave until last' list goes:

The Return Of Bud Powell on Roulette

Ups and Downs

Does anyone have any further thoughts on the RCA albums? They don't seem to get much love but i really like them (Strictly Powell and Swingin' With Bud). I guess they were recorded around the same time as The Amazing BP Volumes 3 and 4 for BN. As i say, i already have them but would still be keen to hear some thoughts.

I like all of Bud, truthfully, because there's not ever a story not being told, or trying to be told. I don't think Bud could have "coasted" under any circumstances. But some of those stories are more...difficult for me to enjoy than others.

I have a similar feeling. I don't know what it is, but i put on a Bud record and whether it's late Bud or early Bud it just does it for me. It fills the gap, whereas maybe some technically better stuff from the era doesn't. I wish i could put it in to words. I don't think it's me doing mental gymnastics just because the early recordings are so great and i have some need to like the later stuff, as there's really no motivation for me to do that. For better or worse it's true love.

I have these 5 CDs and listen to them more often than to his Blue Note recordings.

This (and John L's comment) gives me confidence about checking them out. I don't know if i'll play them more often than the BNs, but this tells me that they are worthwhile to someone and therefore could be worthwhile to me.

I have copies of the Lausanne 1962, which is some of the best later Bud. I'll send you one if you like. email me your mailing address:

allenlowe5@gmail.com

though in truth I rarely listen to late Bud; aside from Lausanne, the best, I think, are the Duke Ellington session and Bud Plays Monk.

Thanks Allen! I'll email you later today/tomorrow.

[JSngry]

The RCA stuff seems very "flat" to me...like he's there but not there, if you know what i mean. The 50s Blue Note stuff is exponentially more engaged, fluent, and interesting.

I heard an interesting story from Marchel Ivery about Bud. Marchel was stationed in Paris with the Army and got to be around Bud a little bit. He said that whenever Donald Byrd would play with Bud and Bud would get a little wavery, Byrd would go overtly Fats Navarro and Bud would snap back into it, like, BAM, almost Pavlovian, like his wiring had a "safe place" reserved for Fats.

[Chuck Nessa]

SteepleChase initially issued 5 single lps of Bud at the Golden Circle. In 1992 they issued another 3 discs of material in this set:

[xybert]

^^^ So there's the five indivdual volumes plus this 3 disc edition? Man, they were exhaustive. Actually realised that this is listed in The Penguin Guide as well. I've ordered Volume 1 and Volume 2 so i'm going to see how i go with those.

The RCA stuff seems very "flat" to me...like he's there but not there, if you know what i mean. The 50s Blue Note stuff is exponentially more engaged, fluent, and interesting.

I heard an interesting story from Marchel Ivery about Bud. Marchel was stationed in Paris with the Army and got to be around Bud a little bit. He said that whenever Donald Byrd would play with Bud and Bud would get a little wavery, Byrd would go overtly Fats Navarro and Bud would snap back into it, like, BAM, almost Pavlovian, like his wiring had a "safe place" reserved for Fats.

Fair call. I agree that the BNs are as you say, but i still like the RCAs for what they are. I don't know Bud as well as many of you here, yet. When you get to know someone really well you start to be much more conscious of, and bothered by, when something is not right with them.

[king ubu]

Don't know any of the Golden Circles yet, but that 3 CD set is pretty good!

As for the RCA's, I agree - they sound too ... "professional" to me, probably as close as Powell ever got to routine. Not saying he's coasting, as I can very much relate to the point that Sangrey makes above about him having been unable to do just that ... but still. Might be the narrow production values at play, for which RCA is infamous anyway.

[Gheorghe]

I got all the Steeple Chase material. the five CDs and the limited edition "Budism" plus some unissued live material.

If you buy it only to compare it with the early Verves and BN´s, better don´t buy it.

But if you want to hear Bud in a more relaxed manner, I´d recommend it.

It´s not the strongest Bud from his years in Europe, but any Budfan might purchase it.

One thing about the "Budism". Some of the material is good, and there are some tracks of Bud at his worst, like some of the 1954/55 Verve or the mentioned 1964 Roulette album.

The recordings are from different dates from April and September 1962, and I think it was one set, when Bud played really sad, Buttercup and Confirmation are painful to hear, but there is enough good material.

I think, Bud wasn´t really pleased with the rhythm section, and I think he decided to go safe and that´s why he played more easy stuff like Straight No Chaser and Blues in the Closet for more than 15 minutes. Maybe he didn´t know what to play with them, it´s possible they were not familiar with his work...., and to play with a pick up rhythm section who doesn´t know your music, you have to stretch on the few tunes they know, just to make a whole set.

As for the RCA's, I agree - they sound too ... "professional" to me, probably as close as Powell ever got to routine. Not saying he's coasting, as I can very much relate to the point that Sangrey makes above about him having been unable to do just that ... but still. Might be the narrow production values at play, for which RCA is infamous anyway.

Yes, and one more of that kind is "Bud plays Bird" from 1957/58 for Roulette.

Bud plays fine, anyway better than his Verve stuff from1954/55, but it sounds like if his solos where dubbed over. There is so little interaction between the rhythm section and Bud´s playing, that some of my friends really wondered if it´s dubbed over.

And the strange thing is, that we talk about George Duvivier and Art Taylor, who sure could play, especially with Bud. They sound great on Bud´s 1953 recordings....

[Clunky]

Don't think this has been mentioned, the best late Bud for these ears. His playing is of the highest order with only a little to suggest of a decline in standards.

Dexter Gordon's ------ Our man in Paris

[king ubu]

I quite like "Bud Plays Bird" actually - quite a bit better for sure than the RCAs!

[Gheorghe]

Don't think this has been mentioned, the best late Bud for these ears. His playing is of the highest order with only a little to suggest of a decline in standards.

Dexter Gordon's ------ Our man in Paris

Yeah , it seems that Bud did more recordings with horn players during that year 1963. Dexter is one of them, the others might be "Americans in Europe" from early 1963 at Koblenz, where he meets Don Byas and Idrees Sulieman. And not to forget the "Dizzy Gillespie with the Double Six of Paris", there is enough solo space for Bud also.

I´m not very exited about the Reprise Album "Bud Powell in Paris". Again......the drummer, with all due respect to Kansas Fields, but he was not the ideal drummer for Bud.

@king ubu: I wouldn´t say I don´t like the "plays Bird" album for Bud´s playing which is fine, but it sounds strange, maybe it´s the recording, I don´t know. I know it was not overdubbed, but it sounds to my ears like if the bass and drums had been recorded before and the piano after that. Somehow it doesn´t happen together. Maybe that´s was just the times, the way they thought a trio might be recorded.

When I was younger, it didn´t count for me. I was such a fan of Bud I bought everything, but as older I get, as much I need to hear it as a whole thing, what happens, how the drums sound, they got very important for me.....

[BillF]

Bud Powell and Lester Young don't often get "linked" stylistically or anything

Their stories were conflated in Bernard Tavernier's fine movie, Round Midnight.

[Gheorghe]

Bud Powell and Lester Young don't often get "linked" stylistically or anything

Their stories were conflated in Bernard Tavernier's fine movie, Round Midnight.

I think there was one attempt of Bud to play with Prez, it must have been something like Prez´ birthdayparty celebrated at Birdland, around 1958 or so. And I think Bud wanted to play behind Prez, but Prez didn´t like it.

On the other hand, Bud played very fine with Hawk at the Essen Festival 1960 ("Hawk in Germany")

[Face of the Bass]

I very much like Powell's playing on the Steeplechase sets. I'm not a fan of the school of analysis that has dismissed most of Powell's recordings because they don't measure up to the time of his mythic greatness.

[John L]

Bud and Pres were also complete opposites in a way. Pres was the super-relaxed street-smart jazzman who all the hipsters tried to emulate, whereas Bud was the usually tense neurotic nerd who could never quite comprehend what was going on in the world around him. Ironically, their creative paths had some real similarities.

[Mark Stryker]

The RCA stuff seems very "flat" to me...like he's there but not there, if you know what i mean. The 50s Blue Note stuff is exponentially more engaged, fluent, and interesting.

I heard an interesting story from Marchel Ivery about Bud. Marchel was stationed in Paris with the Army and got to be around Bud a little bit. He said that whenever Donald Byrd would play with Bud and Bud would get a little wavery, Byrd would go overtly Fats Navarro and Bud would snap back into it, like, BAM, almost Pavlovian, like his wiring had a "safe place" reserved for Fats.

The RCA stuff seems very "flat" to me...like he's there but not there, if you know what i mean. The 50s Blue Note stuff is exponentially more engaged, fluent, and interesting.

I heard an interesting story from Marchel Ivery about Bud. Marchel was stationed in Paris with the Army and got to be around Bud a little bit. He said that whenever Donald Byrd would play with Bud and Bud would get a little wavery, Byrd would go overtly Fats Navarro and Bud would snap back into it, like, BAM, almost Pavlovian, like his wiring had a "safe place" reserved for Fats.

That story about Byrd and Bud is really fascinating. Thanks for sharing it.

I can offer an amen on "Bouncing with Bud." LOVE it. Tremendous on every level. I I've heard some of the SteepleChase LPs and find them, like most of late Bud, uneven and not essential but also, at their best rewarding in the intensity of expression, even when the mind and fingers are not so in sync. Also, the two duo tracks with Johnny Griffin c. 1961 ("Perdido" and "Idaho") are on the same level as "Bouncing with Bud."

[Gheorghe]

The Griffin-Powell duo (Perdido and Idaho), I think was recorded at France Paudras´home in February 1964. It´s somtimes misdated as 1960 or 1961 but I think Griff came to Europe in late 62. Bud and Griff were quite close. They played again in august 1964 at Edenville (the Black Lion album "Hot House", the Mythic Sound "Holidays at Edenville", and the obscure Duke-Label).

As for the Bud -Pres "connection", that didn´t take place......, Bud played with at least two "Lestorian" tenorists: With Zoot Sims in Paris, and with Brew Moore in Copenhagen. The Zoot Sims tracks are of special interest, because here Bud plays in a very relaxed "laid back" manner. I agree with @John L about the difference between the super relaxed Lester and the tense neurotic Bud, but it seems, that the Zoot Sims date was an exception. You can find it on the ESP reissue of "At the Cafe Blue Note". I had an earlier copy on the "Mythic Sound" series....

[aparxa]

From BN, great love for the Amazing Bud Powell Series 1,2,3 but I don't like The Scene Changes (except maybe the first track).

My favorite from the 1960s are Bud in Paris, Bud Powell in Paris and Portrait of Thelonious.

From the Black Lion recordings, Blues For Bouffemont (Invisible Cage) is my favorite but from the others I have(The Essen concert, Strictly Confidential) Bud really shines on many tracks, particularly in quartet with Hawkins.

Good memories from The Live in Lausanne, but I barely listen to the music I had purchased on Emusic. Time to get the CD!