Steve Coleman Article In NYT

[colinmce]

Man, for me Steve Coleman and his music are cause for celebration. Say what you want about Lehman, Iyer, Moran, Finlayson and whoever else but Coleman's been at it for decades and whether you like his music or not i believe that he can stand up to whatever scrutiny you want to throw at him. Big time.

Maybe i'm part of the dumbing down and lowering of society's standards for not raging at an article like this, but my filter just automatically kicks in and i take what i need from it without much stress. I have so much respect for Coleman. Promotional blitz? I don't see it, but Steve Coleman, a well established artist that has been doing his thing for decades has a new album out, so i'd expect there to be some words written.

Some of us here are really excited about the new album. I've really only listened in depth to the albums from 2006's Weaving Symbolics onwards. That just happens to be where i got on, after hearing a track from it on Coleman's Myspace page, and i've been hooked ever since. Some might have been following longer than me, but my point is those that have been following along in real time, that are excited to hear what is next, might have a different experience to those picking it up cold. And that's not to say that you're not approaching it with an open mind, but for humans context generally plays a part.

So yeah, i'll be listening to this album a lot and if i happen to be online i might post about it in the listening thread. I hope that doesn't get twisted in to being interpreted as some street team hype train BS or whatever. These are the days of our lives and this album is an event for me.

YEAH. Good for you, xybert! I'm not even a Steve Coleman fan -- I'm not really familiar with his music -- but I'm glad that you're sticking up for him!!!

Sheesh, a simple article about Steve Coleman -- and suddenly there's a big storm of HATE -- about the artist and the writer.

Good grief, people!

To be fair, I don't think anyone is hating on Steve Coleman. I don't see that anywhere.

As for the writer: broken clock, etc.

[Steve Reynolds]

Man, for me Steve Coleman and his music are cause for celebration. Say what you want about Lehman, Iyer, Moran, Finlayson and whoever else but Coleman's been at it for decades and whether you like his music or not i believe that he can stand up to whatever scrutiny you want to throw at him. Big time.

Maybe i'm part of the dumbing down and lowering of society's standards for not raging at an article like this, but my filter just automatically kicks in and i take what i need from it without much stress. I have so much respect for Coleman. Promotional blitz? I don't see it, but Steve Coleman, a well established artist that has been doing his thing for decades has a new album out, so i'd expect there to be some words written.

Some of us here are really excited about the new album. I've really only listened in depth to the albums from 2006's Weaving Symbolics onwards. That just happens to be where i got on, after hearing a track from it on Coleman's Myspace page, and i've been hooked ever since. Some might have been following longer than me, but my point is those that have been following along in real time, that are excited to hear what is next, might have a different experience to those picking it up cold. And that's not to say that you're not approaching it with an open mind, but for humans context generally plays a part.

So yeah, i'll be listening to this album a lot and if i happen to be online i might post about it in the listening thread. I hope that doesn't get twisted in to being interpreted as some street team hype train BS or whatever. These are the days of our lives and this album is an event for me.

YEAH. Good for you, xybert! I'm not even a Steve Coleman fan -- I'm not really familiar with his music -- but I'm glad that you're sticking up for him!!!

Sheesh, a simple article about Steve Coleman -- and suddenly there's a big storm of HATE -- about the artist and the writer.

Good grief, people!

To be fair, I don't think anyone is hating on Steve Coleman. I don't see that anywhere.

As for the writer: broken clock, etc.

Not even me, but the idea that The NY Fucking Times places jazz musicians in the pantheon and that their stamp of approval or the Village Fucking Vanguard's booking has any bearing on who is who and who is what in this music is patently fucking absurd.

Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows

[Leeway]

Not "hating" on Steve Coleman, or "raging" either. I prefer to see it as a collective critique of the market forces that shape our music, and out individual responses to same. Besides how can one hate on a guy who schedules his concerts for the solstices? Can't you feel the vibe?

[AllenLowe]

Larry, the New York Times, while far from perfect, covers the news well and in depth; also, Krugman. If you want I will post daily links of the things they do well (though, yes, their arts coverage sucks).

from today's paper: all informative and well written:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/marilyn-mosby-prosecutor-in-freddie-gray-case-seen-as-tough-on-police-misconduct.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/nyregion/us-indictment-details-plotting-in-new-jersey-bridge-scandal.html?ref=todayspaper

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/us-liable-in-new-orleans-area-hurricane-katrina-flooding.html?ref=todayspaper

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/women-in-military-cite-retaliation-after-assault-complaints.html?ref=todayspaper

www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/world/europe/jozef-paczynski-95-dies-spent-5-years-as-auschwitz-inmate.html?ref=todayspaper

and that criticism of the Clinton/Russian Uranium deal leaves the essential story pretty much intact. Only real revelation is the mis-dated plane ride.

Edited May 2, 2015 by AllenLowe

[Larry Kart]

and that criticism of the Clinton/Russian Uranium deal leaves the essential story pretty much intact. Only real revelation is the mis-dated plane ride.

No it does not leave "the essential story pretty much intact." The main points that the blog post I linked to made are that the uranium deal was not viewed as dubious AT THE TIME and that Clinton herself as Secretary of State did not play a role in OK-ing it. Other than that, what the heck is left of this supposedly "blockbuster" story?

Krugman I'll give you, but the Times' track record, going back to Whitewater, Wing-Ho-Lee (sp?), remember him?, the twisted sillinesses of Dowd and Gail Collins, the presence of David Brooks, Jayson Blair, Judith Miller and WMD, etc. -- it is hard to think of another paper, given the Times' role in our society, that has done more damage to the fabric of our lives in recent years.

[bluesoul]

Hey they printed this though.

[mjazzg]

Man, for me Steve Coleman and his music are cause for celebration. Say what you want about Lehman, Iyer, Moran, Finlayson and whoever else but Coleman's been at it for decades and whether you like his music or not i believe that he can stand up to whatever scrutiny you want to throw at him. Big time.

Maybe i'm part of the dumbing down and lowering of society's standards for not raging at an article like this, but my filter just automatically kicks in and i take what i need from it without much stress. I have so much respect for Coleman. Promotional blitz? I don't see it, but Steve Coleman, a well established artist that has been doing his thing for decades has a new album out, so i'd expect there to be some words written.

Some of us here are really excited about the new album. I've really only listened in depth to the albums from 2006's Weaving Symbolics onwards. That just happens to be where i got on, after hearing a track from it on Coleman's Myspace page, and i've been hooked ever since. Some might have been following longer than me, but my point is those that have been following along in real time, that are excited to hear what is next, might have a different experience to those picking it up cold. And that's not to say that you're not approaching it with an open mind, but for humans context generally plays a part.

So yeah, i'll be listening to this album a lot and if i happen to be online i might post about it in the listening thread. I hope that doesn't get twisted in to being interpreted as some street team hype train BS or whatever. These are the days of our lives and this album is an event for me.

what Xybert says and more. I for one am mighty pleased Coleman's getting exposure. As I posted above he deserves it for his single-minded and unswerving devotion to his music which has shown no compromise and continues to show none.

If you don't like the "alleged" promotion no real need to lay it on the music - listen to that and critique it certainly but listen to it first. I'll be happily posting in the listening thread when the album arrives next week

[Steve Reynolds]

Thank Jah no politics @ organissimo

People I like or even love hath vastly different viewpoints on economics and politics if they like that Times writer.

I found out in life it's good to be wrong and I may well be - and I've come to believe it doesn't matter very much to me

[jcam_44]

Pay attention to Steve Coleman?

To what extent? Instead of?

Seems to me I can think of numerous less discussed musicians who deserve a whole bunch of attention.

For NYC musicians. I start with Mat Maneri. Kris Davis. Taylor Ho Bynum. Mary Halvorsen. Tony Malaby. Ingrid Laubrock. Mark Helias. Tom Rainey. Gerald Cleaver. Sylvie Courvoisier. Mark Dresser. ETC.

Next, we can let the Chicago home boys start a nice list of wall shakers....

Should I demand you start paying attention to them, Jim?

Since when is Steve Coleman some kind of iconic master innovator/improvisor that demans to be heard?

Now I will demand you start paying attention to Mark Sanders and John Edwards.

Well no I won't but maybe my point is being made.

Why is Steve Coleman so special that I must NOT sleep on him, but Mat Maneri is OK to ignore?!?!?

Mat plays with Steve on Steve's Lucidarium

[JSngry]

[clifford_thornton]

Never been able to get into Coleman's music - it always felt too "removed" for me, like an exercise. But I can also see why other folks are into it, and hey, he's making music for himself and the people he plays with, not me. That's fine and as it should be. On the other hand, I can't stand Iyer's music or persona.

Unless it was someone I REALLY wanted to see that I couldn't see anywhere else, I wouldn't set foot in the Vanguard at this point. Life goes on.

[CJ Shearn]

I caught a link to the Coleman piece from his twitter, I am still investigating his music, but the concept is interesting to me. "The Tao of Mad Phat" is a record I dig. Having also started my own blog with album reviews, in addition to my NYJW writing, I notice the difference between the big publications, and it's interesting to me.

[uli]

. "The Tao of Mad Phat" is a record I dig.

me too. listening to it right now.

[paul secor]

Steve Coleman's probably gotten more attention here than he did from the Times article.

[JSngry]

And, possibly, sold more records!

[MomsMobley]

Tribute To Dick Haymes

[JSngry]

[7/4]

NPR: A New Jazz Suite For Head, Shoulders, Knees And Toes

.

[jcam_44]

Much better read is his downbeat interview

http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2015/DB1505/24-25.html

[sonnyhill]

. "The Tao of Mad Phat" is a record I dig.

me too. listening to it right now.

Me three. I listened to it this morning. I will be downloading more of the material from the mbase site. I hadn't listened to Coleman much before, but since I have been listening to him, I can say I believe that the MacArthur "Genius" committee got it right this time. He has been at this a long time, influenced many musicians, and has obstinately remained true to his vision.

He should have received the grant before Zenon, Moran, or Iyer -- and there are many others that should have received it before those three. When Iyer won it, Ethan Iverson commented on his blog "Do the Math" that Coleman should have been awarded it before Iyer because Iyer was influenced by Coleman. Voila -- it was issued to Coleman the next year. If the committee is righting itself -- I believe that Threadgill has not been blessed with the grant.

I also agree with Larry Kart above concerning the NYT. The NYT's journalism has morphed into the advocacy of "so-called" progressive causes in many troubling ways. Even though, I am, in many cases, not against the causes that the NYT advocates for, that advocacy should not be masquerading as news reporting.

I saw Coleman earlier this year at the Jazz Gallery and will be there when he is at the Vanguard in the fall. It's nice that the Vanguard's booking policy has loosened up. I saw Trio 3 there earlier this year. John Zorn has been there a couple of times recently. It would be great if, going forward, there will be a more open-minded selection of artists at the Vanguard.

Edited May 8, 2015 by sonnyhill

[Larry Kart]

I also agree with Larry Kart above concerning the NYT. The NYT's journalism has morphed into the advocacy of "so-called" progressive causes in many troubling ways. Even though, I am, in many cases, not against the causes that the NYT advocates for, that advocacy should not be masquerading as news reporting.

That's not what I meant. Sometimes the NYT is engaged in 'the advocacy of "so-called" progressive causes.' More often than not, though, in recent years especially, it is engaged in protecting and advancing what it perceives to be its own image and interests, and the resulting behavior may not be "progressive" in any sense. Thus, for example, allowing/encouraging Judith Miller and Michael Gordon (and columnist Tom Friedman) to sell their readers on the existence of WMD in Iraq and the need to invade that country was, as Karl Rove himself has explained (he having doped out how to manipulate the Times and other similar media outlets beforehand), basically an attempt by the Times to avoid being painted as a fundamentally liberal "outlier" paper amid the burgeoning neo-con New Reality of the Bush administration.

[sonnyhill]

I also agree with Larry Kart above concerning the NYT. The NYT's journalism has morphed into the advocacy of "so-called" progressive causes in many troubling ways. Even though, I am, in many cases, not against the causes that the NYT advocates for, that advocacy should not be masquerading as news reporting.

That's not what I meant. Sometimes the NYT is engaged in 'the advocacy of "so-called" progressive causes.' More often than not, though, in recent years especially, it is engaged in protecting and advancing what it perceives to be its own image and interests, and the resulting behavior may not be "progressive" in any sense. Thus, for example, allowing/encouraging Judith Miller and Michael Gordon (and columnist Tom Friedman) to sell their readers on the existence of WMD in Iraq and the need to invade that country was, as Karl Rove himself has explained (he having doped out how to manipulate the Times and other similar media outlets beforehand), basically an attempt by the Times to avoid being painted as a fundamentally liberal "outlier" paper amid the burgeoning neo-con New Reality of the Bush administration.

Apologies for the misattribution Larry. Thanks for the clarification.

I believe that lately the NYT engages in advocacy in its news reporting that, I believe, does not equally present both sides with respect to certain issues that are generally seen as "progressive issues" -- e.g. same sex marriage, immigration, race relations, campus rape. I am a subscriber and notice too often that the NYT's purported news stories on these issues amounts, in my opinion, to advocacy in favor of the "progressive viewpoint." That is not to say I am always opposed to the viewpoint being taken by the NYT, but that I feel that hamfisted advocacy should not be permitted in news stories and material information with respect to both sides of an issue should be presented.

[David Ayers]

While we're at it (and Steve's point is right on--if I was being "validated" by the jazz "mainstream" I'd run far and fast), how about this piece of vast overstatement:

"Vijay Iyer, who once declared in JazzTimes magazine that Mr. Coleman was, for him, as important a figure as John Coltrane, someone who has contributed an equal amount to the history of the music.

That's a big load of BS.

That's the other Mr Coleman...

[David Ayers]

Re. Steve Coleman, more trouble to play that stuff than to assimilate it, probably. Heard him 20-odd years ago and seems not to have changed much. Hear it and move on, I'd say.

Re. The discussion of arts journalism. Really? Does it matter?

[Leeway]

While we're at it (and Steve's point is right on--if I was being "validated" by the jazz "mainstream" I'd run far and fast), how about this piece of vast overstatement:

"Vijay Iyer, who once declared in JazzTimes magazine that Mr. Coleman was, for him, as important a figure as John Coltrane, someone who has contributed an equal amount to the history of the music.

That's a big load of BS.

That's the other Mr Coleman...

The JT article makes it clear he's talking about Steve Coleman.