Non-native English Speakers

[Late]

I don't know if this has ever come up before. If it has, I've missed it.

Just wanted to acknowledge — and give thanks to — the proficiency of all the non-native English users here. I'm not bilingual. Not even close. Native English speakers, I think, sometimes take communication in their language for granted.

Anyway, thank you. And while we're at it, how many languages do you speak?

[GA Russell]

+1

I think that the ability to speak more than one language is a great gift!

[kinuta]

I very much took English for granted before coming to Japan and didn't give much thought to the formidable problems involved in learning it as a foreign language. It was only after I started learning Japanese that my eyes were opened to the giant differences between the two languages and how little of what I assumed was actually true.

My hat off to all non native speakers here, I actually do know the effort required to reach a bulletin board level of proficiency.

I speak Japanese most of the time and though I don't encounter many snags I'm far from native speaker level. I tend to be better in areas that I've had most contact with, language learning and medicine in particular.

[BillF]

Moderately fluent in French, but still with lots of errors. Have been mistaken for a native in France a couple of times, but I hadn't said much. Understanding rapid colloquial French is still very difficult. I'd quickly lose track of French movies if I didn't read the subtitles. Can write accurate French, but still need a dictionary and grammar book nearby. Reading similar - still need the dictionary.

[Big Beat Steve]

Thanks everybody ...

But since I work in the translating field I'd better be sure to get my stuff right (self-respect, you know ... )

As for what languages I do speak, apart from German (obviously) and English, well, I do manage French (well enough to be present actively in French-language forums too, etc., and to get by in France without any major problems but there ARE hiccups here and there). To a somewhat lesser extent, I did learn Spanish in my University days but am badly rusted up (due to non-practice), and also am self-taught in Swedish to the extent that I can read and write it pretty well (one Swede actually mistook what I wrote for the product of some Swede living abroad and being somewhat rusted up in his own language), BUT so far I have very little knowledge of the pronounciation in speaking the language the way it is spoken today. So essentially it is reading and writing only ...

Anyway ... you native English speakers are probably up against one huge stumbling block in case you'd actually want to learn some other language out there "on site". Way back I attended a Spanish language class during one of my University holidays in Spain, and the classes were fairly international, including students from the US and the UK. One American eventually complained that he just did not get to speaking Spanish nearly as much as he wanted to because all those he met wherever he went were all out to try their English on him. Like he put it: "English is the hardest language to avoid anywhere!" Probably true, and not so good, of course, if you do want to learn a foreign language among native speakers.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Big Beat Steve

[kinuta]

Thanks everybody ...

But since I work in the translating field I'd better be sure to get my stuff right (self-respect, you know ... )

As for what languages I do speak, apart from German (obviously) and English, well, I do manage French (well enough to be present actively in French-language forums too, etc., and to get by in France without any major problems but there ARE hiccups here and there). To a somewhat lesser extent, I did learn Spanish in my University days but am badly rusted up (due to non-practice), and also am self-taught in Swedish to the extent that I can read and write it pretty well (one Swede actually mistook what I wrote for the product of some Swede living abroad and being somewhat rusted up in his own language), BUT so far I have very little knowledge of the pronounciation in speaking the language the way it is spoken today. So essentially it is reading and writing only ...

Anyway ... you native English speakers are probably up against one huge stumbling block in case you'd actually want to learn some other language out there "on site". Way back I attended a Spanish language class during one of my University holidays in Spain, and the classes were fairly international, including students from the US and the UK. One American eventually complained that he just did not get to speaking Spanish nearly as much as he wanted to because all those he met wherever he went were all out to try their English on him. Like he put it: "English is the hardest language to avoid anywhere!" Probably true, and not so good, of course, if you do want to learn a foreign language among native speakers.

What you say is true but it's not the case in Japan. Compared to other asian countries, very few people here can speak English.

Without a reasonable command of Japanese life here would be daunting.

[Big Beat Steve]

Yes I am pretty sure this is not the case in Japan. I have repeatedly felt rather amazed about how abysmal mastery of the English language there is even among many people actively dealing with the (mostly) English-speaking world on a regular basis, including in the music field (and I am not thinking of item descriptions on eBay only ). HOWEVER, it must be remembered that Asiatic languages have a structure that is quite different from most European (Indogerman) languages, and the differences are not only limited to writing, of course. I wouldn't want to have to learn Japanese or some other Asiatic language either and am far from sure I'd fare that much better within a reasonable time frame.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Big Beat Steve

[kinuta]

That may be false modesty. If you entered a decent school and applied yourself seriously, I think you'd be surprised how quickly you'd start to get a grip on the basics. Learning kanji is the major time consumer, there are no short cuts and without kanji you'd never get past basic level.

Edited April 28, 2015 by kinuta

[page]

Ah, that is very kind to say, thank you! I do appreciate you and others noticing! I don't think I'm bilingual myself, since I don't really think in English. I still translate most of the time. My first language is Dutch and English is my, favourite, second language. In our country we start learning at young age. I was 10 myself, but nowadays there are schools that even teach in Kindergarden. I don't think that is necessary, but.. well when that is what people want, why not? Basically we learn our whole school period, mine was till 23 and after that well ,you'll still learn since English is waven into our society. Films, tv-series and words that got into our dictionary.
I am qualified to teach children English, since I've studied to be a primary school teacher. That doesn't mean I'm that good though. I still miss out on lots of things, or misinterpret what is said and also still make mistakes. Expressions and humour I can miss out on, because of the difference. I still enjoy learning though. I'm not a teacher at the moment btw.

Besides English, I can speak German, although I've forgotten so much since I just don't speak it enough. I have been fairly good at it, but now... Fortunately my brother has family who speaks it or at least they try to and so I practise it a few times a year. I speak a little French. I love it, but I'm not good at handling myself in a French environment. I would get lost, since I do know how to ask directions but will not understand most of the answer. Even after 7 years of studying, I feel like I can't really find my way in it.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words, even when I think I do not fit the description you posted fully.
Kind regards, page

lots of editing I needed to do since I did reply too fast and made many mistakes. That's what I mean, not bilingual.

Edited May 1, 2015 by page

[Shawn]

I only speak 'Murican. The language people speak in the West Virginia/Virginia/North Carolina region because actual English would be too difficult to master.

[kinuta]

Ah, that is very kind to say, thank you! I do appreciate you and others noticing! I don't think I'm bilingual myself, since I don't really think in English. I still translate most of the time. My first language is Dutch and English is my, favourite, second language. In our country we start learning at young age. I was 10 myself, but nowadays there are schools that even teach in Kindergarten. I don't think that is necessary, but.. well when that is what people want, why not? Basically we learn our whole school period, mine was till 23 and after that well ,you'll still learn since English is waven into our society. Films, tv-series and words that got into our dictionary.

I am qualified to teach children English, since I've studied to be a primary school teacher. That doesn't mean I'm that good though. I still miss out on lots of things, or misinterpret what is said and also still make mistakes. Expressions and humour I can miss out on, because of the difference. I still enjoy learning though. I'm not a teacher at the moment btw.

Besides English, I can speak German, although I've forgotten so much since I just don't speak it enough. I have been fairly good at it, but now... Fortunately my brother has family who speaks it or at least they try to and so I practise it a few times a year. I speak a little French. I love it, but I'm not good at handling myself in a French environment. I would get lost, since I do know how to ask directions but will not understand most of the answer. Even after 7 years of studying, I feel like I can't really find my way in it.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words, even when I think I do not fit the description you posted fully.

Kind regards, page

lots of editing I needed to do since I did reply too fast and made many mistakes. That's what I mean, not bilingual.

From my experience of travelling extensively and teaching English as a foreign language, the two countries that might be called world champions of language ability are The Netherlands and India. Japan however gets the dunce's cap!

Edited April 30, 2015 by kinuta

[Chuck Nessa]

I only speak 'Murican. The language people speak in the West Virginia/Virginia/North Carolina region because actual English would be too difficult to master.

My mid-western is similar to Shawn's and I am in awe of the "non-native" speakers here. I am thankful they are here and add so much to the discussions.

[medjuck]

I was surprised by how many people in Shanghai spoke English.

[paul secor]

The non-native posters here have my complete respect and admiration. Thanks for what you add to these forums.

[Niko]

let me give back some of the appreciation. I started reading jazz forums in 8th grade and I am fairly certain that this is where I learned reading and, later, writing in English (plus: I had an excellent teacher in 7th grade, she does deserve credit). In my job, English is the language of what you have to say - mine could be much worse but it wouldn't hurt if it was better. Recently, a friend remarked that my English is much harsher than my German (slightly against the stereotype, btw) - might have to do with the fact that what I speak and write is the language of jazz discussion boards... be that as it may: Thank You!

[Aggie87]

I appreciate the abilities of non-native English speakers too, and I've actually defended a few who may not have been very fluent (on other boards) when somebody criticizes their grammar or spelling. In cases like these I'm more appreciative of their attempt than anything. You can get people's points, generally.

Also, I think for many Americans, they have no real contact with people who speak other languages as their primary language. Other than Mexico and the French speaking parts of Canada, we don't border numerous other countries like many in Europe, where you have the opportunity to practice/interact with others perhaps a little more easily.

Plus many Americans aren't interested in the world outside of our border, unfortunately.

[mikeweil]

let me give back some of the appreciation. I started reading jazz forums in 8th grade and I am fairly certain that this is where I learned reading and, later, writing in English (plus: I had an excellent teacher in 7th grade, she does deserve credit). In my job, English is the language of what you have to say - mine could be much worse but it wouldn't hurt if it was better. Recently, a friend remarked that my English is much harsher than my German (slightly against the stereotype, btw) - might have to do with the fact that what I speak and write is the language of jazz discussion boards... be that as it may: Thank You!

Similar thoughts here - I learned quite a bit from some of the more eloquent members here.