Chuck Nessa Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 from my facebook page tonight: Some days I believe Dvorak and Borodin were the world champs at melody. Other days I think of Ayler and Ornette. Borodin is winning tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Too many great melodists for me to narrow it down, but it's interesting to read where you're at tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Not the same thing, I know, but...Baby Dodds, for me, sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) if not Schubert-- and the correct answers are probably Schubert and Rossini-- then Prokofiev who did so many things so well he's often underrated; Serge encore at 40:30 mark Gilels Three Oranges obviously not most melodic compared to hours of melody in the ballets etc but worth seeing anyway Ornette yes Ayler no Edited April 15, 2015 by MomsMobley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I didn't know that there were any "correct" answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) There are as many correct answers as there are listeners! Jobim is definitely on my list . . . as well as Beethoven, Waller, Ellington, Strayhorn and many more. Edited April 15, 2015 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I didn't know that there were any "correct" answers. Of course there are correct answers; we're talking musicology, not your favorite cookie. And while Beethoven has melodic moments etc... his genius is motivic And while Schubert did some astonishing things with developement, his genius is melodic These are the correct answers. Where one might 'rank' these in world historical competition Chuck posits is subjective, si, but blurring bar lines of musical construction/comprehension is the answer to nothing. And because I hestitated to start with even, say, Buxtehude or Handel... and this not even broaching the madrigals (which is as misleading as considering Schubert without lied...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ah. I understand, almighty guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ok, I'll play - define "melody" in terms of how greatness is then objectively/absolutely considered and conferred. Also advise how these criteria are arrived at without in some way at some point fixing the questions to return the desired answers, and/or if such a thing is all but unavoidable. It's been a few decades since my musicology classes, so a refresher is certainly in order. Might as well get it right here, right now, right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsMobley Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ah. I understand, almighty guru. thank you. i gotta head out now but i'll bring back black & white cookies for anyone who wants-- lemme know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 I'll take some pie if it's not too much trouble, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Based on some recent listening to D. 960 -- Schubert. Dvorak and Borodin are shrewd choices, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBop Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 When I think (jazz; improvised not composed) melody, I think Lester Willis Young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnblitweiler Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree with everyone here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I object. WTF do u no. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffcrom Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Musicology ain't physics or geometry. It's more like baking cookies, with room for individual interpretations/variations of established recipes. And since no two people's taste buds are the same, those cookies will taste different to different folks. I went on with this analogy for a while longer, until it got ridiculous and I deleted a bunch of stuff about chocolate chips and raisins. But I actually do think this issue is more like picking your favorite cookie than about some perceived musicological "correctness." And while I ain't saying that the Victoria and Palestrina pieces posted above aren't melodic, to my ears they gain much (most?) of their impact through texture and harmony. (And yeah, I know that neither of those composers were thinking harmonically as such in the way that later composers thought. Because musicology.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Cookies or pie, make mine pie, all things being equal or not. But yes, pie, please, although I'll eat a cookie, make no mistake. But - pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 My favorite Melody was a weather girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 I used to think that my favorite weather was Balmy until I experienced it for more than a few days. Just a notch too warm and a degree or two too warm, but neither warm nor humid enough to be something else, something meaningful, something real altogether for my sustained enjoyment. I was kinda like, hum, Balmy's neither fish nor foul, just some kinda half-assed teaseweather that never gets anywhere, it just stays put and expects you to love it just for being there. Well, that's good for people, but not for weather. IMHO, of course. Hopefully Melody the weather girl was not like Balmy, although if she was pretty, she would be like herself, which in fairness to Balmy, was also the case. I guess life is too complicated for me. Life, yes, but pie, no. Oh HELL no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 and I thought this would be a simple topic without sturm und drang. silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Oh, you use the phrase "world champs at melody", four words out of which only one is 100% universally agreed upon (and that one a preposition, no less, and in the service of a proposition at that), and you expect a simple conversation to ensue? That's not silly, that's delusional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Nothing wrong with delusional in my world. I spend most of my time there. Glance at my work and state otherwise. Edited April 16, 2015 by Chuck Nessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnblitweiler Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 Chopin would be high on my list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 17, 2015 Report Share Posted April 17, 2015 guru forgot Mozart But wtf do I knowMaybe baroque and rokoko don't count because they're ornament (and that is crime, as we all know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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