Finally pushed too far (MS Office)

[ejp626]

I didn't say I didn't know how to use external I/O. What I don't like is the not-so-subtle push away from physical media and towards the Cloud and/or Apple's various subscription services.

But that is also the way Windows is moving, so I'm feeling extremely upset at the moment. I've just found out that Windows 8 has removed all games and some other stuff. Now there are a fair number of decent apps (even free ones) at the Windows "store," but for every single one of them you have to sign up with an email account (that is actually a Windows email account) and to run the apps you have to be signed on and allow MS to track your activity. This is total BS. But a whole generation have gotten so used to putting all kinds of crazy tracking apps on their phones, so it goes on pretty much unremarked. I hate it and I hate the way this is going, both with Apple and MS.

[Chuck Nessa]

I read just a couple of weeks ago something that I didn't know - that Apple Mac doesn't make much effort to ensure that its OS upgrades will handle programs that are more than four years old.

That's true with iOS, but I've seen no evidence of that with OS X.

With an upgrade a couple of years ago I lost the ability to use my Nikon slide/negative scanner and "The Complete New Yorker" dvd set. I found a third party developer with software to run the scanner but the New Yorker set remains a large paperweight.

[mjzee]

I read just a couple of weeks ago something that I didn't know - that Apple Mac doesn't make much effort to ensure that its OS upgrades will handle programs that are more than four years old.

That's true with iOS, but I've seen no evidence of that with OS X.

With an upgrade a couple of years ago I lost the ability to use my Nikon slide/negative scanner and "The Complete New Yorker" dvd set. I found a third party developer with software to run the scanner but the New Yorker set remains a large paperweight.

You can't use the Mac's Image Capture app with the Nikon? It works fine with my decade-old Epson scanner.

[Chuck Nessa]

I read just a couple of weeks ago something that I didn't know - that Apple Mac doesn't make much effort to ensure that its OS upgrades will handle programs that are more than four years old.

That's true with iOS, but I've seen no evidence of that with OS X.

With an upgrade a couple of years ago I lost the ability to use my Nikon slide/negative scanner and "The Complete New Yorker" dvd set. I found a third party developer with software to run the scanner but the New Yorker set remains a large paperweight.

You can't use the Mac's Image Capture app with the Nikon? It works fine with my decade-old Epson scanner.

No.

[Scott Dolan]

I didn't say I didn't know how to use external I/O. What I don't like is the not-so-subtle push away from physical media and towards the Cloud and/or Apple's various subscription services.

But that is also the way Windows is moving, so I'm feeling extremely upset at the moment. I've just found out that Windows 8 has removed all games and some other stuff. Now there are a fair number of decent apps (even free ones) at the Windows "store," but for every single one of them you have to sign up with an email account (that is actually a Windows email account) and to run the apps you have to be signed on and allow MS to track your activity. This is total BS. But a whole generation have gotten so used to putting all kinds of crazy tracking apps on their phones, so it goes on pretty much unremarked. I hate it and I hate the way this is going, both with Apple and MS.

So they can't be used offline?! That's absolutely insane.

Apple may have apps that work like that, but I sure haven't encountered them. And I've got a ton of apps.

With an upgrade a couple of years ago I lost the ability to use my Nikon slide/negative scanner and "The Complete New Yorker" dvd set. I found a third party developer with software to run the scanner but the New Yorker set remains a large paperweight.

You can't use the Mac's Image Capture app with the Nikon? It works fine with my decade-old Epson scanner.

No.

Understood, but that sometimes happens with Windows as well. I was just saying there is no evidence that Apple has some kind of four year window that they enjoy slamming shut on users.

[.:.impossible]

I don't have a ton of apps, but I do have a six year old mbp that I use Safari and various programs within Adobe Creative Suite, iPhoto when I absolutely have to, and that's about it.

I recently performed a clean Mavericks install and the machine runs like new. There are always compatibility issues with an OSX update and Apple has, in recent years, decided fuck it you can't please everyone. Adobe has also decide to stand their ground on support of legacy software. Off the top of my head, five years sounds about right.

I would advise anyone with any doubts to hold off on updating their OS until all compatibility/support lists have been finalized. I have been in situations before where I updated the night the official update was released, only to be SOL until x.1 was released a couple of weeks later. Shame on me for using outdated software.

I prefer CS3 honestly. It does everything I want/need and nothing more. It is my comfort zone. It is old now. I do subscribe to CC. A friend works at Adobe, so it is very affordable with the friends/family discount. It is subscription based. Everything seems to be moving in that direction. Their are pros and cons, as there are with everything.

I loathe Microsoft Word. So much so that I will even use Excel for word processing instead. So much easier to format.

We have Open Office, but everything seems compatible inside of Google Docs as well.

I can't speak to your specific application unfortunately, but good luck. I have a real love/hate with computers.

All this being said, I have a Lenovo THINKPAD through work that is the most responsive Computer I have ever used. Very quick and efficient. It is about the size of a MB Air (no optical drive). It runs Windows, which is fine. I'm rarely using the operating system for anything. It runs the software I need it to run very well, and there is very little difference within the software across platforms over the past ten to twelve years.

[ejp626]

All this being said, I have a Lenovo THINKPAD through work that is the most responsive Computer I have ever used. Very quick and efficient. It is about the size of a MB Air (no optical drive). It runs Windows, which is fine. I'm rarely using the operating system for anything. It runs the software I need it to run very well, and there is very little difference within the software across platforms over the past ten to twelve years.

I don't see any upside whatsoever for the subscription model. It is pure greed on the part of these software companies, and it will ultimately push middle-of-the-road people like myself to extreme measures (shareware, piracy, etc.)

I used to really like the IBM ThinkPad. I realized that when Lenovo took it over there were some real problems and quality control had suffered greatly. I was negatively impacted, mostly related to how badly they implemented System Restore, and they caused me to lose a huge amount of data. At that time, I swore off Lenovo never to return. I'm glad I did, as the last 6 months or so of Lenovo computers have been intentionally infected with some of the worst adware ever to be installed on a personal computer (certainly the worst intentionally):http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/02/lenovo_superfish_scandal_why_it_s_one_of_the_worst_consumer_computing_screw.html

People are pretty uninformed on the whole. In a perfect world, this abuse (and very poor reaction when being caught) would ensure that Lenovo went out of business. That probably won't happen, however. But I guarantee you I will never buy Lenovo again -- to the point that if my job moved us in that direction, I would start looking for another place to work.

[Scott Dolan]

So were there any lawsuits against Lenovo due to people's identities being stolen and bank accounts emptied? Or was the Slate article just a breathless theory from an IT flunky? I mean, he goes on at length in full blown "trust me" mode, telling us everything that supposedly "could" happen. But there's zero evidence that it ever really did.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[.:.impossible]

Good to know. I have no issues, but these laptops have been customized by the corporation. Adware is not a factor here.

Until something drastically changes, I will continue buying Apple hardware for my personal use. The Lenovo thing was just an aside because I've been very impressed with the computer. Prior to this one, I had a Toshiba Portege that held up well. It is now five years or so and had no issues when I booted it about a year ago. Both are protected by an IT department of course. I realize if I were tasked with securing these machines, I'd despise them.

All this being said, I have a Lenovo THINKPAD through work that is the most responsive Computer I have ever used. Very quick and efficient. It is about the size of a MB Air (no optical drive). It runs Windows, which is fine. I'm rarely using the operating system for anything. It runs the software I need it to run very well, and there is very little difference within the software across platforms over the past ten to twelve years.

I don't see any upside whatsoever for the subscription model. It is pure greed on the part of these software companies, and it will ultimately push middle-of-the-road people like myself to extreme measures (shareware, piracy, etc.)

I used to really like the IBM ThinkPad. I realized that when Lenovo took it over there were some real problems and quality control had suffered greatly. I was negatively impacted, mostly related to how badly they implemented System Restore, and they caused me to lose a huge amount of data. At that time, I swore off Lenovo never to return. I'm glad I did, as the last 6 months or so of Lenovo computers have been intentionally infected with some of the worst adware ever to be installed on a personal computer (certainly the worst intentionally):http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/02/lenovo_superfish_scandal_why_it_s_one_of_the_worst_consumer_computing_screw.html

People are pretty uninformed on the whole. In a perfect world, this abuse (and very poor reaction when being caught) would ensure that Lenovo went out of business. That probably won't happen, however. But I guarantee you I will never buy Lenovo again -- to the point that if my job moved us in that direction, I would start looking for another place to work.

[ejp626]

So were there any lawsuits against Lenovo due to people's identities being stolen and bank accounts emptied? Or was the Slate article just a breathless theory from an IT flunky? I mean, he goes on at length in full blown "trust me" mode, telling us everything that supposedly "could" happen. But there's zero evidence that it ever really did.

Wow -- a breathless expose, huh. When reputable people have pointed out that the issues here are far beyond what a simple malware exposes users to, that the security certificates have been compromised at the very core of the machine.

Anyway, it is too early to know if there will be lawsuits and that IT departments are probably just finding out what the problems and compromises were. Frankly, if my company had Lenovo machines, I would be very worried indeed unless one's IT department was very, very good, and most are only middling to good.

[.:.impossible]

I'll certainly keep you posted. You have piqued my curiousity.

[.:.impossible]

I just had an opportunity to read the article.

"...wiping the entire machine and installing vanilla Windowsnot Lenovos Windows. Then change all of your passwords."

I am fairly certain that this is common practice, and considered replying before reading the article with this suggestion. It seems like a best practice no matter who you are, or where you bought your computer, regardless of manufacturer. I have had to help my mom with her best buy windows laptops over the years. They are chock full of bullshit, so I can see this being an issue for the consumer side, or a small company without a real IT department, and shame on whomever signed off on the deal at Lenovo. I don't think I have anything to worry about though.

I'm not in front of the Lenovo today, otherwise I would check for the breach. The laptop was purchased before September 2014.

Edited March 4, 2015 by .:.impossible

[ejp626]

I just had an opportunity to read the article.

"...wiping the entire machine and installing vanilla Windowsnot Lenovos Windows. Then change all of your passwords."

I am fairly certain that this is common practice, and considered replying before reading the article with this suggestion. It seems like a best practice no matter who you are, or where you bought your computer, regardless of manufacturer. I have had to help my mom with her best buy windows laptops over the years. They are chock full of bullshit, so I can see this being an issue for the consumer side, or a small company without a real IT department, and shame on whomever signed off on the deal at Lenovo. I don't think I have anything to worry about though.

I'm not in front of the Lenovo today, otherwise I would check for the breach. The laptop was purchased before September 2014.

The laptop is probably fine, but it is still pretty shocking. All these companies (Acer, Asus, Lenovo) put an unbelievable amount of crap on the system that takes a while to kill. And of course you don't even know what the government is doing...

[Scott Dolan]

If it's been in the market for the last six months, you'd have to think there would already a ton of breaches being reported. That's all I'm getting at, ejp. It's not like I'm trying to run some kind of interference, I'm strictly an Apple guy and have no dog in the fight.

But ever since the apocalyptic Y2K pronouncements from all the "experts", I've learned to take all of these "this is what could happen" reports with a grain of salt. I won't simply take these things on faith anymore.

[ejp626]

If it's been in the market for the last six months, you'd have to think there would already a ton of breaches being reported. That's all I'm getting at, ejp. It's not like I'm trying to run some kind of interference, I'm strictly an Apple guy and have no dog in the fight.

But ever since the apocalyptic Y2K pronouncements from all the "experts", I've learned to take all of these "this is what could happen" reports with a grain of salt. I won't simply take these things on faith anymore.

I guess the only good news is that most hackers are too lazy to take full advantage of these exploits.

At this point, probably most Americans have had their credit cards compromised more than once with Target and Home Depot just being among the more prominent examples.

But most of us are pretty boring and not worth going after, but still the horror stories are pretty chilling.

[Scott Dolan]

I guess the only good news is that most hackers are too lazy to take full advantage of these exploits.

But, IMO, that opinion doesn't really hold water. If the exploit were such an evil open door as the "experts" are claiming, hackers would be climbing over each other for a chance to take advantage of it. Hell, Lizard Squad would have been all over it in a matter of days. Yet another reason why I think this may be much ado about…well, not nothing. But very, very little.

[BFrank]

I bought a new laptop last year. It had been a while since I bought a new computer (the last one was an HP), and needed a new one. Realizing that desktops aren't necessary anymore I decided to go online with Dell - big mistake. I used to buy from them and always had good experiences, but things have changed. While this new one works OK, I had to make several support calls (sales AND tech) in the process and found them to be nearly worthless. Nobody seemed to know what they were talking about and always reverted to scripted responses to my questions.

I won't be buying from them again.

[Scott Dolan]

I hear that loud and clear, Beefy! My last Windows machine was a Dell laptop, and it was a disaster from day one. I bought it around 2006-7, and all I had ever heard about was how awesome their custom service was. Come to find out, it was quite possibly the worst customer service I'd ever experienced. Vista was shit, the machine was shit, and their tech support had less of an idea of what was going on than I did!

The one positive thing I will say is that when they replaced my hard drive (twice!), the new drive was on my doorstep less than 24 hours after my service call. I understand how, but it was still impressive none the less.

[BFrank]

Too bad about Dell, they used to be a class operation. I suppose the whole desktop/laptop business is collapsing, so they must be cutting expenses anywhere they can. They probably take care of their corporate customers.

[Dave Garrett]

Too bad about Dell, they used to be a class operation. I suppose the whole desktop/laptop business is collapsing, so they must be cutting expenses anywhere they can. They probably take care of their corporate customers.

Most consumer-grade Windows laptops suck, with the exception of the high-end models. The business-class ones are in general much better built, and are free of crapware (although as was pointed out earlier in the thread, most decent-sized companies usually build a standardized custom software image so they have complete knowledge of and control over everything installed on a computer at initial deployment).

If you want a good Dell laptop, best advice is to keep an eye out for off-lease business machines in the Latitude family that are refurbished and sold at a discount via their factory outlet:

http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/latitude-laptops?~ck=anav

[Dave Garrett]

But ever since the apocalyptic Y2K pronouncements from all the "experts", I've learned to take all of these "this is what could happen" reports with a grain of salt. I won't simply take these things on faith anymore.

The "apocalyptic Y2K pronouncements" were indicative of an abundance of caution, which is a good thing. If the shit had hit the fan and the worst-case scenarios had previously been downplayed, can you imagine the uproar that would've ensued?

Anyone who's ever been involved with supporting mission-critical, high-availability systems (network, mail servers, financial systems, etc.) will tell you that no one ever says "hey, great job you're doing keeping [Critical System X] up and running", but if one of those systems hiccups or, God forbid, goes down, the backlash is swift and fierce. Communication and having properly set expectations are key when such events occur. There are very good reasons why support staff for such systems tend to prefer a conservative approach.

[JSngry]

If you want a good Dell laptop, best advice is to keep an eye out for off-lease business machines in the Latitude family that are refurbished and sold at a discount via their factory outlet:

http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/latitude-laptops?~ck=anav

Parallels my experience. Bought my daughter two Dell Inspirons, first one nothing but heartaches, they actually/finally replaced it with a newer model, which has survived if not thrived for about 5 years now.

OTOH, got a work-provided Latitude two years ago that has been a freakin' hoss, in spite of all the company-pushed security upgrades that attempt to defy Windows gravity. Apart from that, this thing does not bog down for anything, ever. The HP they gave me previously, you could swat that thing down like a drunk mosquito, although perhaps not incidentally, the old one was still limping along with SP and the new one came with a fresh (and presumably "customized") install of 7.

Also about Dell, the phone service, which I've not had to avail myslef of for a long time, went from great to horrible, but they always honored their next-day service agreement, and the guys who showed up were consistently badass. Consistently.

Keep telling myself I'm going to get a tablet when this desktop finally quits, but I don't think I'm ready to be that modern, at least not while I'm alive.

[BFrank]

Agreed about the phone service. I never felt like I was talking with anyone who actually KNEW anything. Very disappointing.

Fortunately, I haven't had any meltdowns with this unit, or needed anything replaced.

A couple of major irritations with the equipment, though. My laptop has a touch screen, which I kind of like and works well with the Windows 8 'color boxes'. So I ordered a new external 'touch screen' monitor and docking station so I could use my wireless keyboard and mouse and have everything quickly and easily connected at the desk. This type of setup was very convenient at work.

1) The Monitor: I plugged everything in and installed the software and drivers, but the touch feature didn't work. I tried every kind of fix, but no luck. Finally forced myself to call Dell......turns out that the touch feature of this brand new monitor is not compatible with brand new laptop. WHAAAAAAAAT??? I will give them ONE thumb up, though - they refund the price difference between this model and the non-touch version.

2) The "docking station": Not like any docking station I've ever seen. Usually the laptop slides into the unit in one easy step, and then everything's connected - monitor, network, peripherals, etc. Makes it easy to grab the laptop and go if you want to work out of the office. THIS station looks like an oversized candy bar with a bunch of different inputs and an AC plug - that's it. IT does NOT provide AC to the laptop for re-charging OR a monitor interface! So you still have to plug these in separately. Also, it's not something that you slide your laptop into - it just sits off to the side, taking up desk space. I almost sent it back, but decided that it's just useful ENOUGH to hang onto. Otherwise....worthless and overpriced.

Edited March 5, 2015 by BFrank

[Dave Garrett]

If you want a good Dell laptop, best advice is to keep an eye out for off-lease business machines in the Latitude family that are refurbished and sold at a discount via their factory outlet:

http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/latitude-laptops?~ck=anav

Keep telling myself I'm going to get a tablet when this desktop finally quits, but I don't think I'm ready to be that modern, at least not while I'm alive.

I love my iPad, but even with a Bluetooth keyboard case it'll never completely replace my desktop or laptop. Different tools for different tasks.

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, an iPad (or any tablet, for that matter) is most definitely no replacement for a desk/laptop. I know Microsoft loves to crow about their Surface Pro, and perhaps it's close enough to having a laptop, but tablets are essentially toys. They can replace your laptop if you still have a desktop, and they can replace your desktop if you still have a laptop. But, they're essentially big ass smart phones that can't make phone calls.

And from what I can see, tablets may be a suitable replacement some time down the road, but they aren't there yet.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Scott Dolan