Orrin Keepnews, RIP

[johnblitweiler]

It's too bad that he never got around to writing an autobiography. Thank you for your contributions, Mr. Keepnews, and rest in peace.

Here's my review of Keepnews' book "The View From Within," which has some memoir material but no secrets, no intimacy at all: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/02/books/in-short-nonfiction-in-short-nonfiction.html

I'm very grateful to him for the Riverside, Milestone, and Landmark sessions he supervised. But I wish a more careful person had produced the Fantasy reissues beginning in the 1970s, and I wish a more careful person had produced the Bluebird, Decca, and other reissue series Keepnews produced for CDs.

Thanks for this, John. Was reading this thread thinking that those feeling sentimental for Keepnews had not read his book, which is mostly awful and evidence, were one curious, that Orrin's biggest fan was... certainly Orrin and not-- by all evidence to date-- the musicians his association with Bill Grauer first enabled him to work with. Yes, OK's name is on some swell records and I'm happy that, say, Johnny Griffin's varied Riverside dates exist but...

sidenote: been going issue by issue (at the library) through "Kulchur" magazine and it's great to see you there!

I've got a near complete run of Kulchur, which I read avidly at the time. Had a big educational effect. Quite a turn it gave me to meet John L. at the time and realize that he lived in the same neighborhood I did (Hyde Park in Chicago) and was a just year or so older than I was. I'd assumed from what I'd read that he was very mature, learned gentleman -- not that John wasn't learned, but I'd been thinking maybe, pipe and slippers, and an Irish Setter in front of a fireplace, kind of Whitney Ballet image.

BTW, it was darn strange when Kulchur, originally a Black Mountain School offshoot by and large, underwent a near total conversion to the work and the viewpoints of Ted Berrigan's crowd -- this I assume because the magazine's bankroller, Lita Hornick, changed allegiances herself. I'm sure that the literary and personal politics involved have been written about somewhere, perhaps in the autobiography of LeRoi Jones' first wife, Hettie Cohen.

IIRC Baraka told me that when Hornick got married she changed her allegiances.

[JSngry]

FWIW, when Stollman goes, as rightly vilified as he might be, I'll still be bummed.

Which raises the ethical/existential question what is the bigger evil, to have something to be used and have it not used at all, or to have that thing used but unfairly and/or exploitative?

Don't ask me, i don't know.

[Chuck Nessa]

good questions.

[jlhoots]

Not exactly a beloved guy, his name on releases being questionable (as far as how much he actually contributed to the sessions' production), and yet I still want to say 'RIP.' Guess that's how it is in this business.

FWIW, when Stollman goes, as rightly vilified as he might be, I'll still be bummed.

I agree.

Some of you are full of it.

What did you do to advance the music??

R.I.P.

[duaneiac]

Well, I trust every one who has been horribly offended by the life and work of Orrin Keepnews will now go out and burn every recording they have on which his name appear. That'll learn the sumbitch!

I mean after all, jazz is certainly no place for a contentious or egotistical person to be. (I'm lookin' at you , Jelly Roll!)

So far as I know, Mr. Keepnews paid the musicians he recorded what they were due, both in salaries and royalties. It's not like the man was Herman Lubinsky or something.

If all he did for the recordings on which his name appeared was get the money together to pay for the studio time and the musicians recording time, to pay for pressing the albums, to pay to have them distributed and promoted nationally -- that's a hell of a lot of work itself. Do I care if he possibly/probably inflated his role in the music making process? Not really. I'd rather not waste any time stewing over that when I could be listening to some Thelonious Monk albums or Cannonball Adderley albums or Wes Montgomery albums . . .

[mjzee]

I remember owning the Japanese King vinyl of "Cool Struttin' Volume 2" where the liner notes writer (some Japanese guy) made the claim that Alfred Lion had nothing to do with the success of Blue Note, that it was all due to the musicians. Whatever.

[danasgoodstuff]

"It's not like the man was Herman Lubinsky or something." RIP, he helped Monk get to where he could get some $.

[clifford_thornton]

Some of you are full of it.

What did you do to advance the music??

I'd argue that people like Nessa, Litweiler, Kart, Sangrey and Crompton (the last two are excellent musicians) have done quite a bit...

[duaneiac]

What say you, Bobby Hutcherson?

“Orrin was always going like a house on fire, coming up with new ideas and recording people so they could be heard,” says Hutcherson, the great jazz vibraphonist who lives in Montara and was the first artist Mr. Keepnews recorded when he started Landmark in 1980.

“He was quite a guy,” says Hutcherson, who would dine with Mr. Keepnews and his late first wife, Lucy, at their Richmond District flat —appropriately located on Parker Street, as in the jazz comet Charlie Parker — and go over a few details about a forthcoming session. “Orrin would call a few days later, and you’d go into the studio and he had everything arranged. All you had to do was play.”

Although not a musician, “he had ears,” Hutcherson adds. “He could hear harmonies. He could listen to an ensemble and tell you what needed to be tightened up.” Hutcherson recalls Mr. Keepnews asking Tyner if the pianist could keep a track to about five minutes so it could work on radio. “Sure enough, when the record came out, that was the tune on the radio all the time.”

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Deaths-Orrin-Keepnews-giant-of-the-jazz-world-6108907.php

[clifford_thornton]

As with a number of large-looming figures in the business of recording and producing this music, Keepnews clearly has his cheerleaders and detractors. Riverside was a fantastic label, no denying that. Most of us weren't there and "complex, weird guy whom some dug and some hated - RIP" seems like a fair response.

[MomsMobley]

Well, I trust every one who has been horribly offended by the life and work of Orrin Keepnews will now go out and burn every recording they have on which his name appear. That'll learn the sumbitch!

Duaneiac, I ask this respectfully, why don't you tell us about Bill Grauer & if you have nothing say about Bill Grauer yet...

have such a strong feeling for Orrin Keepnews... why might that be?

I defy anyone to read Keepnews' book and come away with a "better" opinion of the man-- or the professional-- than they began with. Ironic since much of his life was seemingly devoted to burnishing (inventing?) his own reputation but there you go. Sometimes acute self-conciousness comes out the other end, revealing truths one intended to obscure.

***

LK, agreed on the transition of "Kulchur"; I like Berrigan but... I've also been going through the run of Jones/DiPrima "Floating Bear"; I can't recall which-- I think "Kulchur"-- but besides John, it was great to see a terrific poet like Kenneth Irby-- check him out Clifford Thornton, if you don't already know you'll quickly see why I point out) writing about music there-- Ellington I think?

Edited March 4, 2015 by MomsMobley

[duaneiac]

I have no particularly strong feelings about Orrin Keepnews. I don't like speaking ill of the recently departed. If others enjoy pissing on his yet to be dug grave, that's their business.

Life's a tough business. None of us make it out of here as perfect and unblemished as the day we were born. We struggle along and do the best we can. We'll please some folks and piss off other folks. But when we die, we should at least allow the former group to recall us fondly and the latter group to leave it be.

[jlhoots]

Some of you are full of it.

What did you do to advance the music??

I'd argue that people like Nessa, Litweiler, Kart, Sangrey and Crompton (the last two are excellent musicians) have done quite a bit...

You know who I meant - not the people you listed.

[JSngry]

As with a number of large-looming figures in the business of recording and producing this music, Keepnews clearly has his cheerleaders and detractors. Riverside was a fantastic label, no denying that. Most of us weren't there and "complex, weird guy whom some dug and some hated - RIP" seems like a fair response.

I'd offer the suggestion (just to kick around, to to advocate for) that as important as Riverside was in its time, Milestone (and Galaxy) might have eventually been more important in its, fully stipulating that they were completely different times and that "importance" doesn't mean any one thing, really.

Or not, maybe.But a lot of chapters in a lot of careers exist because of that label, and I wonder what those chapters would have looked like otherwise (or in the case of Sonny Rollins, would they have existed at all, which I know to some would have been the preferable outcome, all things considered?)?

Regarding Grauer, I have no bone to hunt in either dog here, but what part of the "yes, beautiful soulful cat, unlike Keepnews, but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

[clifford_thornton]

Right you are about Milestone - somehow omitted that equally significant imprint.

[GA Russell]

but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

Jim, what are you referring to? I thought that Grauer was the businessman, and that Riverside went broke because Grauer died and was no longer there to take care of the business.

[MomsMobley]

Regarding Grauer, I have no bone to hunt in either dog here, but what part of the "yes, beautiful soulful cat, unlike Keepnews, but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

Without Bill Grauer, there's no Riverside "up" to come down-- simple as that. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't know enough about Riverside & its associated labels internal accounting & management to say Grauer was "irresponsible." Lotsa variables there... See these Billboard mag articles 1960-1964 for starters--

https://books.google.com/books?id=4x4EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA12&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=LkUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA32&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA32#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=zBMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA30&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963

https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler?

And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism?

Seems highly unlikely but...

Now, if we want to talk about the great Gene Deitch

Edited March 4, 2015 by MomsMobley

[GA Russell]

I remember reading something written by Orrin, I think from the liner notes of the Riverside Records box, where he says that Grauer signed a contract for a large amount of money for many hours in a recording studio.

Orrin said that he initially thought it was a very bad bargain, but later came to think that it was genius, because Riverside could not have recorded what it did without the contract Grauer negotiated.

[Big Beat Steve]

Regarding Grauer, I have no bone to hunt in either dog here, but what part of the "yes, beautiful soulful cat, unlike Keepnews, but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963

https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler?

And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism?

Seems highly unlikely but...

Makes you wonder, though, what Billboard, politically correctly (??) tried to hint at by stating "The mistakes he might have made were done with the same boldness he built the firm".

[clifford_thornton]

tangential question: is Joanne Grauer related to Bill in any way?

[MomsMobley]

Regarding Grauer, I have no bone to hunt in either dog here, but what part of the "yes, beautiful soulful cat, unlike Keepnews, but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

Bill Grauer, 40, Dies Suddenly, Billboard, December 28, 1963

https://books.google.com/books?id=SwsEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA4&dq=bill%20grauer%20riverside&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer%20riverside&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=AUUEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA16&dq=bill%20grauer&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q=bill%20grauer&f=false

Now, is it "possible" Keepnews was the 'brains' and 'soul' of the operation and he considered Grauer nothing more than a useful hustler?

And is it also possible Keepnews rarely spoke of Grauer out of politeness, not egotism?

Seems highly unlikely but...

Makes you wonder, though, what Billboard, politically correctly (??) tried to hint at by stating "The mistakes he might have made were done with the same boldness he built the firm".

I think there's little question that Riverside was NOT, at least at certain points, a 'conservatively' run record company; indeed, think of hustling indies in other genres, and of the 1950s/60s independent record biz in general, and that's to be expected.

But, it also seems clear it was that very boldness that gave Keepnews the window to do whatever things of merit he actually did.

Has there been a Wonderland Records-- Riverside's children's label-- thread before?

http://www.discogs.com/label/356330-Wonderland-Records-7

If anyone has the 2 January 1964 "Downbeat" at hand, there was an article on Riverside's bankruptcy there.

https://books.google.com/books?id=F6wJAQAAMAAJ&q=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&dq=grauer+bankruptcy+downbeat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qCj3VNe0CK7isATWlYDwAw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ

$3,056,000 in liabilities

$1,300,000 in assets

Textile Bank of New York largest creditor

Would be interesting for some intrepid scholar to get the federal court records ...

Edited March 4, 2015 by MomsMobley

[Larry Kart]

As with a number of large-looming figures in the business of recording and producing this music, Keepnews clearly has his cheerleaders and detractors. Riverside was a fantastic label, no denying that. Most of us weren't there and "complex, weird guy whom some dug and some hated - RIP" seems like a fair response.

I'd offer the suggestion (just to kick around, to to advocate for) that as important as Riverside was in its time, Milestone (and Galaxy) might have eventually been more important in its, fully stipulating that they were completely different times and that "importance" doesn't mean any one thing, really.

Or not, maybe.But a lot of chapters in a lot of careers exist because of that label, and I wonder what those chapters would have looked like otherwise (or in the case of Sonny Rollins, would they have existed at all, which I know to some would have been the preferable outcome, all things considered?)?

Regarding Grauer, I have no bone to hunt in either dog here, but what part of the "yes, beautiful soulful cat, unlike Keepnews, but, also unlike Keepnews, was pretty much responsible for the demise of Riverside by irresponsible financial practices" picture am I not getting right?

A key chapter in Sonny Rollins's career would not have existed without Riverside? What? "Freedom Suite" and what else? "The Sound of Sonny"? Am I missing something here?

Prestige was the key label is establishing Rollins as the great tenorman of the late '50s, and IMO the best of his work for Prestige (e.g. "Worktime," "Saxophone Colossus') leaves "Freedom Suite" in the shade. Hey, if we're talking about Rollins and labels other than Prestige, I'll take Contemporary snd "Way Out West" and "Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders" or Blue Note and the album with Philly Joe and "Asiatic Raes."

[ghost of miles]

I think Jim was referring to Milestone, not Riverside--implication that given the trends & currents of the 1970s/80s, certain artists such as Rollins, McCoy Tyner, etc. might not have recorded as prolifically in that era if it hadn't been for Milestone. (Somewhat like Granz and his stable of artists on Pablo during the same period.)

Edited March 4, 2015 by ghost of miles

[gmonahan]

Didn't Keepnews blame Grauer for signing Chet Baker? It seems like I remember seeing that somewhere. Keepnews had *no* time for Chet Baker and considered him nothing but a hustler. My issues with Keepnews have nothing to do with the people he recorded. He seems to have been honest with them and deeply devoted to the music. Rather, I always objected to how he did reissues. He wasn't always as sensitive to sound issues as he should have been, and he could be pretty odd in the choices of what he chose to reissue. That said, there is a LOT of great music on my shelves because of him, so I gratefully wish him a peaceful rest.

gregmo

[mikeweil]

Maybe he just didn't want to have another junkie on the artist roster ...