2015 MLB Season - Let's Play Two!

[JSngry]

Or at least watching it from the stands!

[Tim McG]

I wasn't around in the 1910's to verify your statement, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Doctored balls broke far harder than any sliders these days. That's why they were outlawed.

Hahahahaha!!!

I wasn't around back then either, but if the highlight reels are any indication, that plus the fact pitching is far and away better now than back just 30 years ago, I think it's a fair bet. Besides he broke in during the 1914 season and played until 1935. That would mean he faced a lot of fairly mild pitching.

He still didn't see a circle change, screwball, two seamer [was the knuckler thrown back then?] or any number of pitch variations like the slurve or a four seam splitter. And some of the best pitchers of that time period weren't allowed in MLB. Then there's the short porch in the old Yankee Stadium. That had to help more than a few HRs over the fence in RF. I just don't see the Babe as much to shout about compared to modern day players. Just my two cents.

Edited May 4, 2015 by TimMcG

[Scott Dolan]

Yes, the Knuckleball was around then.

[paul secor]

I wasn't around in the 1910's to verify your statement, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Doctored balls broke far harder than any sliders these days. That's why they were outlawed.

Hahahahaha!!!

I wasn't around back then either, but if the highlight reels are any indication, that plus the fact pitching is far and away better now than back just 30 years ago, I think it's a fair bet.

He still didn't see a circle change, two seamer [was the knuckler thrown back then?] or a any number of pitch variations like the slurve or a four seam splitter. And some of the best pitchers of that time period weren't allowed in MLB. I just don't see the Babe as much to shout about compared to modern day players. Just my two cents.

How many modern day players can match his record as a pitcher and hitter? If you say one, that's one too many. He was one of the best pitchers in the majors until he turned to everyday playing.

[JSngry]

Only one way to settle this debate once and for all.

[Tim McG]

1. Ruth did face wicked forkballs and legal spitballs. To say he would ride the pines today is outrageously ignorant.

2. Barry's accomplishments are just fine because it wasn't 'against the rules', Tim? You really want to go there? Performance Enhancing Drugs: A-Rod used them, Barry used them. A pox on all of them.

3. A-Rod will never sniff the Hall of Fame. Ever. And why you would think there is even a question is completely beyond me.

Well, I respectfully disagree.

I said what I did because the sporting media is just full of A-Rod news. That's all they seem to talk or write about every time the guy picks up a bat. Just pointing out the inequities is all.

As to Babe Ruth, he never saw the best pitchers in that time period because they were all in the Negro Leagues. Satchel Page, as an example, would have had him for lunch. No Latino players ever pitched to him, either. In those days, the only truly good players played for a handful of teams. Most were on the Yankees. With his alcoholism and obesity, he wouldn't hold a candle to modern day players of equal or greater talent. Just my opinion of the matter is all.

And the media was full of Barry news when he was over-taking Ruth, and when he was over-taking Aaron too. Maybe your problem is that he is leaving another famous Giant in the dust but there just isn't enough mention of his use of PEDs?

And as to Ruth what you are really saying is that every single legendary player of the era - who hardly only played for the Yankees, BTW - are in fact all frauds because they didn't face black pitchers.

Utterly ludicrous and appallingly ignorant.

Bonds was breaking the all-time HR record. A-Rod has been in the news 24-7 since way before last year's suspension, mostly for gossip purposes, and only now tied for 4th all-time. Besides, it's only the Yankees. I'm not that tied into it.

No big, Dan. Just a game.

Cheers!

I wasn't around in the 1910's to verify your statement, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Doctored balls broke far harder than any sliders these days. That's why they were outlawed.

Hahahahaha!!!

I wasn't around back then either, but if the highlight reels are any indication, that plus the fact pitching is far and away better now than back just 30 years ago, I think it's a fair bet.

He still didn't see a circle change, two seamer [was the knuckler thrown back then?] or a any number of pitch variations like the slurve or a four seam splitter. And some of the best pitchers of that time period weren't allowed in MLB. I just don't see the Babe as much to shout about compared to modern day players. Just my two cents.

How many modern day players can match his record as a pitcher and hitter? If you say one, that's one too many. He was one of the best pitchers in the majors until he turned to everyday playing.

Good point, Paul. Pitchers don't hit very well at all and nobody since Ruth.

However, he faced-off against the same mild pitching as a pitcher, too.

I'm just not impressed.

Yes, the Knuckleball was around then.

Thanks, Scott.

Edited May 4, 2015 by TimMcG

[johnblitweiler]

Seems like a whole lot about pitching and batting changed when the strike zone was reduced in the 1980s. I don't have stats to prove this, but it surely seems like there are fewer bases on balls now than when I was a kid in the 1950s; today's batters have better reflexes and there are a lot more foul balls, since all pitches are in that litttle strike zone; no knuckle balls any more - the pitch was too uncontrollable; starting pitchers now throw more pitches in fewer innings. Babe Ruth and a current mlb batter can't be compared, neither can Eddie Cicotte or Hoyt Wilhelm be compared with any pitcher today. No doubt some folks have said these things on previous threads.

Speaking of Eddie Cicotte - the spitball was outlawed in 1920, only 8 older pitchers in each league were allowed to still throw it. Ruth couldn't have faced many spitballers when he set those records.

[Scott Dolan]

Well, that settles it. Babe Ruth sucked.

[Tim McG]

Well, that settles it. Babe Ruth sucked.

Well, OK then.

Seems like a whole lot about pitching and batting changed when the strike zone was reduced in the 1980s. I don't have stats to prove this, but it surely seems like there are fewer bases on balls now than when I was a kid in the 1950s; today's batters have better reflexes and there are a lot more foul balls, since all pitches are in that litttle strike zone; no knuckle balls any more - the pitch was too uncontrollable; starting pitchers now throw more pitches in fewer innings. Babe Ruth and a current mlb batter can't be compared, neither can Eddie Cicotte or Hoyt Wilhelm be compared with any pitcher today. No doubt some folks have said these things on previous threads.

Speaking of Eddie Cicotte - the spitball was outlawed in 1920, only 8 older pitchers in each league were allowed to still throw it. Ruth couldn't have faced many spitballers when he set those records.

Well put, John.

[GA Russell]

I have an opinion about the Negro Leagues that anyone is welcome to correct me on.

My understanding is that the teams were, for the most part, barnstormers.

There is no doubt in my mind that the best Negro League players deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. But I suspect that it is in the nature of barnstorming that the players did not develop their skills and their conditioning the way the Major Leaguers did. I suspect that most barnstormers (of any race) could not get much further than their natural ability could take them.

Another thought occurs to me: I've never seen praise for the coaching of the Negro League players. I've seen interviews with the old players talk about how they played inside baseball, but I never once saw one praise a manager or coach for being wily, or winning games by cunning.

[Tim McG]

The guy who would know the answer to that is David Jones from the old JazzCorner BBS. He was a font of historical baseball information and wrote a couple books on the topic, too.

They are available on Amazon if you are so inclined.

[johnblitweiler]

There were apparently some barnstorming games between Negro League and MLB players. Bill Veeck wrote that the best game he ever saw was a 1-0 pitchers duel between Satchel Paige and Dizzy Dean and also that before Paige came to Cleveland in 1948 he and Bob Feller had barnstormed vs. each other.

[GA Russell]

Thanks for that suggestion TMG. I looked him up, and saw that he is the author of Deadball Stars of the American League which I was familiar with.

John, in 1961 my dad took me to see Satchel Paige pitch for the Portland Beavers in Seattle against the Rainiers. This was in the Coast league. Paige started and pitched four innings. He did well, but obviously did not qualify for a win. He looked like he was made out of rubber!

Hot streaks count. The best team in history lost the world series to the Hitless Wonders, five games to three.

John, I am currently reading Turning the Black Sox White by Tim Hornbaker. Last night I read about the 1906 World Series. I recommend the book!

http://www.amazon.com/Turning-Black-Sox-White-Misunderstood/dp/1613216386/

[Scott Dolan]

He posts here as Face Of Bass, you may want to pm him if you have any specific questions.

I think he's the most arrogant and miserable prick on the face of the earth, but he does know baseball history.

[GA Russell]

Thanks Scott! I had no idea.

[Tim McG]

Awww...David's OK.

Some folks will tell you the same about me, too.

They're wrong, of course. I'm just a sweetheart.

Right, Scott?

[Scott Dolan]

No, David is a douche of epic proportions.

He WAS an OK cat, but then he took his trip to Africa and lost his friggin' mind.

You have some bad moments, just like the rest of us. He actively makes sure he lives them every second of every day.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[Tim McG]

Well, now that I'm past the worst with this cancer crap maybe I'll have fewer bad days.

The Giants winning three WS rings in five years helps, I'll say that for sure!

BTW...my neighbor and I just purchased game tickets for an A's game and a Giants game on consecutive days in June!

It will be his 1st time in either ballpark. Looking forward to it!

Edited May 6, 2015 by TimMcG

[Scott Dolan]

That sounds really cool!

We once did a Cardinals game and a Royals game like that. They aren't as close together as San Fran and Oakland, so the travel was somewhat of a bitch. But it was still really neat. Drove to St. Louis for an afternoon game, then drove back home (which is damn near dead center between STL and KC). Headed for KC the next day for an evening game. Actually, I think we did two games in KC.

Either way, it was really neat. Your neighbor should get a real kick out it.

[Soulstation1]

Damn

The Tribe has the worst record in the AL

[Scott Dolan]

Damn

The Tribe has the worst record in the AL

It's early.

Kluber being 0-5 with a 5.04 ERA is kinda shocking, though.

[Tim McG]

That sounds really cool!

We once did a Cardinals game and a Royals game like that. They aren't as close together as San Fran and Oakland, so the travel was somewhat of a bitch. But it was still really neat. Drove to St. Louis for an afternoon game, then drove back home (which is damn near dead center between STL and KC). Headed for KC the next day for an evening game. Actually, I think we did two games in KC.

Either way, it was really neat. Your neighbor should get a real kick out it.

Hope so. What's cool is we can take the BART under the Bay to Oakland and the CalTrain to San Francisco. No driving hassles at all. Which is great because it is a four hour drive to get to the Bay Area. Luckily, his family owns a house on the Peninsula and we can park and ride the various surface transit.

He recently moved here from Orange County, Angels land. I spent a lot of time in that ballpark myself as a young lad.

But you know what's funny [not "Ha Ha" funny, odd funny], for the same money per ticket, we got Field Level seats in Oakland, but nose bleeds in San Francisco.

Go Figure.

Edited May 8, 2015 by TimMcG

[Scott Dolan]

Hope so. What's cool is we can take the BART under the Bay to Oakland and the CalTrain to San Francisco. No driving hassles at all. Which is great because it is a four hour drive to get to the Bay Area. Luckily, his family owns a house on the Peninsula and we can park and ride the various surface transit.

He recently moved here from Orange County, Angels land. I spent a lot of time in that ballpark myself as a young lad.

But you know what's funny [not "Ha Ha" funny, odd funny], for the same money per ticket, we got Field Level seats in Oakland, but nose bleeds in San Francisco.

Go Figure.

Well, that's a byproduct of 1. having a very successful team with a relatively high payroll, and 2. having a much more luxurious stadium.. MUCH more!

It's the same story here in Missouri, or it once was. Cardinals tickets were a fortune compared to Royals tickets. But, Royals tickets started creeping up after the stadium refurb (which is mind-blowing in its beauty), and now that their payroll is up and they've tasted success, the ticket prices have gone even higher. We used to get dugout box seats at The K for $25. Those same seats are now $53 for blah games, and up to $108 for "premier" teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, etc...

I once bought a seat just a few rows behind home plate for $90. Now you're lucky to find one for less than $200…even for shit games.

But, I'm not complaining. Give me a team that makes the playoffs, charge whatever the hell you want. After 29 years of missing the playoffs, not to mention all of those 95-100+ loss seasons you don't tend to be terribly picky about that kind of thing.

[Tim McG]

I hear you. But $50 bucks for the top of the stadium is crazy nuts.

Field Level is $200-250 or more....for ONE game? Geez. This isn't Levi's Stadium and 49ers football. It's baseball. I mean, 81 games at home vs 8 home games at the 49ers ballpark. The "cheap" seats there are going for $65 bucks a toss. That isn't much more than the "cheap" seats in ATT.

The Giants are threatening to price me out!

Edited May 28, 2015 by TimMcG

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, I hear that. It's not so much that you can't afford it, it's that you get to the point where you simply cannot justify the expense.

And with San Fransisco having one of the highest costs of living in the U.S., those ticket prices don't surprise me.

There may be downsides to living in the midwest, but cost of living certainly isn't one of them.

Hell, I can still play 18 holes at Justin Smith's golf club for $29! Which my son and I try to do eevry weekend. I sometimes go walk nine after work, and that's only $6. How the hell can you beat that?!