What does it mean when a sax player says his mouth piece is leaking?

[Hardbopjazz]

Last night I saw George Coleman and his quartet. During each tune George was changing his reed. After the first set, he told his son, who is in the band that his mouth piece was leaking and he would need to go have it fixed tomorrow. What exactly is a leaking mouth piece?

[AllenLowe]

that's an odd one, never heard it before - maybe the seal between the reed and the opening was doing something.

[BeBop]

Odd indeed. The other possibility is that the cork has compressed so that, when adjusted to be in-tune, there is a leak between mouthpiece and cork. But that'd be a cork problem.

Or Coleman was just jiving the guy.

Like the mechanic who attributes your car problem to a muffler bearing.

Edited February 12, 2015 by BeBop

[Hardbopjazz]

There is a metal clamp that you put over the mouth piece that you would then tighten with some sort of screw to hold the reed in place, George kept turning the screw, or whatever it is called, and it wasn't remaining secure/tight. Throughout both sets George would take his mouth piece off the sax and the reed would just fall out of the mouth piece.

Edited: He referred to this as "my mouth piece is leaking."

Edited February 12, 2015 by Hardbopjazz

[Hardbopjazz]

I was wondering what something like this does to your playing.

The issue had to be the mouth piece. George told George Jr. that he needed him to drive to the shop tomorrow to get it fixed. George Jr. said why not use a spare mouth piece. George replied, no, I can't use another mouth piece.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Hardbopjazz

[Hardbopjazz]

I guess you have a mouth piece that is your game mouth piece.

[BeBop]

That metal piece, commonly called ligature, may be built into the mouthpiece or integrated with it. That would explain it, kind of. Consistent with Allen Lowe's original suggestion of poor seal between reed and mouthpiece.

[JSngry]

That "clamp" is called a ligature, and it is what holds the reed in place, both horizontally and vertically, to enable a tight and secure seal of the reed against the mouthpiece table, and against its rails and tip when the reed is vibrating.

When that seal is not secure, it allows air to escape before getting into and then through the horn, which is where it's all supposed to go.The object is for all air to vibrate the reed, which produces the sound, and then keep it going all the way through the bore of the instrument.

George is probably playing a metal Link, which has long (*forever?) had the "knob" type ligature.

Important that air does not get lost befre it gets to where it needs to be, Reed needs to form perfect seal on all parts of mouthpiece at all times.

Same thing with the neck cork getting worn down - air goes out of horn before going through it.

Sometimes a mouthpiece table will get pitted or nicked or whatever and the reed doesn't have that perfectly flat table to sit on. Or sometimes ligatures get old and flabby. But almost everything is fixable with the proper tools. You'll see a mouthpiece guy looking like he works in a machine shop, and really, he does.

[Hardbopjazz]

Okay, now it make sense to me. The reed wasn't flush to the mouth piece so air was leaking.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Hardbopjazz

[page]

When a sax is leaking the "polster" doesn't get closed enough while playing. A polster is made of felt with a bit of leather covering it. On top of that, there is the metal button. I don't know whether I got all terms correct in English, but that is what it means when it is leaking. You can't intonate correctly when a polster is leaking, you simply can not get the right tone. A bit like when you play recorder and you don't set your fingers exactly on the openings. Then there is a leak too. Ah, now I see, you are talking about a mouth piece. I'm not sure then. The term leaking is usually used for the polsters.

Edited February 12, 2015 by page

[JSngry]

I suspect that "polsters" = pads?

[page]

Ah yes, are they called pads in English? Why didn't I think of that. You can see here: http://www.saxshop.nl/contents/en-uk/d91_saxofoon_onderhoud.html
(Sorry website seems to stay in Dutch, although I pointed out the link for the English version) You can see different kinds that are used.

Edited February 13, 2015 by page

[AllenLowe]

yeah, a pad leak is another thing, I think.

[Hardbopjazz]

yeah, a pad leak is another thing, I think.

LMAO.

Youtube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfDhaeePf6w&feature=youtu.be

[page]

Another thing: a friend of mine always kept his reeds in some strong alcohol. I think it was white rum. Do you guys do that too? Is that a common thing, to preserve reeds in alcohol? Watching your video, what would be the advantage?

Edited February 13, 2015 by page

[jeffcrom]

Another thing: a friend of mine always kept his reeds in some strong alcohol. I think it was white rum. Do you guys do that too? Is that a common thing, to preserve reeds in alcohol? Watching your video, what would be the advantage?

Not common, but one of my colleagues in Atlanta is pretty eccentric about reeds. He went through a period where he kept his reeds in a mixture of mouthwash (with alcohol) and water. This was followed by a period where he drilled a small hole in the top of the reed - right in the heart (!), a part of the reed I never touch. I don't think he's doing anything weird with his reeds now, but he'll probably come up with something new to try.

[Chuck Nessa]

Few things more disgusting than leaking saxophonists.

[JSngry]

Another thing: a friend of mine always kept his reeds in some strong alcohol. I think it was white rum. Do you guys do that too? Is that a common thing, to preserve reeds in alcohol? Watching your video, what would be the advantage?

Not common, but one of my colleagues in Atlanta is pretty eccentric about reeds. He went through a period where he kept his reeds in a mixture of mouthwash (with alcohol) and water. This was followed by a period where he drilled a small hole in the top of the reed - right in the heart (!), a part of the reed I never touch. I don't think he's doing anything weird with his reeds now, but he'll probably come up with something new to try.

I've known any number of people who used either gin or vodka. Still not convinced that the reed was their main concern...

I went through a period where I kept my reed in a jar of water, 24/7, theory being that a soaked reed won't break like a dry one, plus will be more ready on the spur of the moment than will a dry one. I found this to be true, always, but the water turned nasty in a hurry, and the reed followed suit. It didn't bother me, really, not when I was playing regularly, but if you let that shit go for, like two months, it gets as disgusting as it does impractical.

That guy filing the reed from the underside...I don't know...you can llok at the reed from the top and tell it wasn't cut on the center, you got one side with rails way up higher than the other, no way that reeds gonna vibrate evenly until you fix that...and also, looked at from the butt end, I can guarantee you that the hump is not centered. When you get that, I think it's best to just play the damn thing until it's reduced to the garbage that it already is, no sense in trying to polish a turd as they say. I used to shave and sand and all that, just not worth it, at least most of the time not.

Remember when folks had "recording reeds", "gig reeds", and "practice reeds"? Maybe they still do. But that was when your change of getting a really properly cut reed with good quality cane were better than they have been in a long time.

[page]

Ok, thanks guys. Maybe it was vodka, but I thought he said rum at the time. I wouldn't know about the different kinds used the way like you say Jim, I'm just a singer myself. I know he went back home once when we were at a gig, since we had to perform and he didn't bring a spare one. It made me kind of nervous, since he barely made it back in time.

[JSngry]

Dude came to a gig with just one reed? That's CONFIDENCE!

[king ubu]

re: pads - is it all leather with saxophones? fish skin only on clarinets? (I got them all at home but I usually don't screw around on 'em myself ... once took my tenor halfway apart and it wasn't easy getting everything in place again, with my two left hands )

[Hardbopjazz]

I did manage to get the answer to the leaking mouthpiece. The clamp that holds the reed in place on the mouthpiece was not tightening. When George blew into his mouthpiece the reed didn't have a tight seal and thus it would just product air. That is the leaking mouthpiece.

Wouldn't it be better to have a mouthpiece where the clamp is all one piece? The only reason I can see why not wouId be changing reeds on the fly during a tune may not be as easy as the clamp being separate component.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Hardbopjazz

[JSngry]

Players will adjust the vertical placement of the ligature on the reed to accommodate different reed shapes/sizes (they're not all uniform!) and/or to get the best available resonance out of any given reed.

The old Strathons used to have a ligature that was incorporated into the mouthpiece body:

They were not, however, universally loved.

Links, otoh, pretty much always have been and always will be a solid favorite over the ages. Many, many cats who play a Link will not play anything else, ever. And am9ong them, some will only play certain vaieties/vintages.

Saxophonists and their mouthpieces...as a rule, you don't wanna go their, trust me.