Milestones Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) OK, my formative years in jazz coincided with the rise of Marsalis, so I bought into the Downbeat covers, the TV appearances, and everything. I did learn soon enough he was not the Second Coming. But some things caught my eye even later on, such as the Monk record (1999). Every halfway decent jazz musician can do something with Monk—and despite what the detractors say, Wynton is much better than halfway decent. He had some good musicians at the time, such as my man Wycliffe Gordon and Eric Reed. I like the ensemble size (septet), and many tracks emphasize the higher sounds—soprano sax and trumpet in upper register (through not shrill). I don’t know what Marsalis thought of Steve Lacy (or Lacy of Marsalis), but having the two together in an ensemble of this size would have been intriguing. I did listen to this record not long after it came out and found some tracks to be very good while others were quite underwhelming. Now in checking it out again I find that most of it works. I especially like the tracks with smaller groups—a trio of soprano, piano and bass; a piano trio. Wynton certainly does not hog the limelight. But when he gets a spotlight feature on “Ugly Beauty” (a duet with Reed), he really shines; in fact, I think this is one of his finest ballad performances ever. It’s basically a relaxed and fun record. But that's just the point. Wynton never was (or will be) the great composer/arranger he aspires to be. But let him explore Monk...and the music is pretty fine. Edited February 11, 2015 by Milestones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hmmm... I'll have to revisit, but I found it terribly unimpressive when I first heard it. And I'm a thoroughly unrepentant fan of Wynton Marsalis. I just found that to be one of his turds (among several, unfortunately). But I'll make a point to pull it off the shelf after what you've written here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I haven't really bothered with new Marsalis releases in the 15 years since, except I did like the meeting with Willie Nelson. Also, he has a fine feature on "Picasso"--on a big band record under Ted Nash's name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I bought a couple of his albums when I started collecting jazz in the late nineties. I never truly connected with them. Like Milestones, I haven't bothered with the Marsalis family for years, Wynton especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 The general feeling seems to be that his first three albums (along with his appearance on Hancock's Quartet) are his best. I would agree with that assessment. Still, he has real talent, and I don't understand those who dismiss most or all of his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmce Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I used to have this one. I thought the conceit of doing Monk with a trad-like lineup was smart and the record was not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 The general feeling seems to be that his first three albums (along with his appearance on Hancock's Quartet) are his best. I would agree with that assessment. Still, he has real talent, and I don't understand those who dismiss most or all of his career. I used to own Citi Movement and the cheap Live at the Vanguard box. Of the albums you mentioned I only have the Hancock Quartet from the Columbia box. I've yet to listen to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I like this one. I like a lot of Marsais records. So what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I haven't really bothered with new Marsalis releases in the 15 years since, except I did like the meeting with Willie Nelson. Also, he has a fine feature on "Picasso"--on a big band record under Ted Nash's name. Does that cover Live At The House Of Tribes, as well as the phenomenal Village Vanguard box set? If so, I would highly recommend each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I like the Monk record, but it's taken me a while. It's unusual to hear Monk's music performed in that way, and i think the slightly pristine/not-sterile-but-not-particularly-warm-either recording adds to the initial cognitive dissonance. I haven't listened to it in a while, but from memory i was disappointed that they did Brilliant Corners only as a piano trio! On his more recent stuff, The Vitoria Suite from 2010 is a kick arse big band record. He actually hasn't released anything that isn't a collaboration with Nelson/Clapton or a compilation since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John L Posted February 11, 2015 Report Share Posted February 11, 2015 I listened to it once and didn't like it. So I gave my copy away and never listened to it again. Maybe I have missed something? Live at the House of Tribes is far and away my favorite Wynton Marsalis record. I also like J-Mood and Standards Vol. 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I remember ( I'm very sure correctly) that it was simply the worst attempt at Monk I've ever heard Try ICP, Lacy, Available Jelly, Ellery Eskelin and numerous others first Please Btw - currently listening to Lacy's Quartet rip up Epistrophy Standing on a Whale Fishing for Minnows Edited February 12, 2015 by Steve Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Still, he has real talent, and I don't understand those who dismiss most or all of his career. It's kinda like Will Clark taking over the Hall Of Fame and remaking it in his own image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I heard him play "Think of One" live with his brother Branford and Mel lewis at the late, lamented Mt. Hood Festival of Jazz and was quite taken with it. Lots of energy there. And then heard the album in question and wasn't nearly so impressed, still thought it was better than the Jelly Roll Morton thing he did 'bout the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ugh... The Jelly Roll album may be his all time worst. That's really the biggest issue with Marsalis. He has put out some real gems. Even Mr. Reynolds, who holds a rather profound hatred of all things Wynton Marsalis, gave a fairly enthusiastic thumbs up to the Village Vanguard box. But, he has also lined his catalog with some truly epic turds. His catalog is a minefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Ugh... The Jelly Roll album may be his all time worst. That's really the biggest issue with Marsalis. He has put out some real gems. Even Mr. Reynolds, who holds a rather profound hatred of all things Wynton Marsalis, gave a fairly enthusiastic thumbs up to the Village Vanguard box. But, he has also lined his catalog with some truly epic turds. His catalog is a minefield. I believe the Vanguard box also contained some Monk covers, and they felt wrong to me. On the other hand, I think Anthony Braxton's Monk tribute album on Black Saint is brilliant. Paul Motian's Monk in Motian is also alright. Those are the only Monk tribute albums in my collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Like it or not, Monk is the Mozart or Beethoven of jazz, and everyone ought to take a crack at some of his music (not necessarily full album tributes)--and most have. Hell, half of Steve Lacy' long career was playing Monk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Reynolds Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Taking a crack at it is one thing. Succeeding is entirely something else. Why wouldn't you want to go out and find the musicians who kick ass and take names when they cover Monk?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Like it or not, Monk is the Mozart or Beethoven of jazz, and everyone ought to take a crack at some of his music (not necessarily full album tributes)--and most have. Hell, half of Steve Lacy' long career was playing Monk. I'm just not sure how you successfully play Monk as a trumpeter. I always figured that why he almost always used a speed merchant sax player in his groups. Rouse being the exception, but he solo'd exact the same way as Monk, so it worked well. Monk leaves too much space for most trumpeters to fill, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Monk leaves too much space for most trumpeters to fill, IMO. Please explain? Space is space, not sure if there is intrinsic "trumpet space" to be filled vs "tenor space". Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the notion? Either way, Ray Copeland & Thad Jones both handled the spaces they were given just dandily...I'd add Joe Gordon too, but slightly less dandily. And from a different instrumental approach, Don Cherry played him some Monk too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milestones Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 So Miles was not very good at playing Monk? Thad Jones? Many others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMB1968 Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Still, he has real talent, and I don't understand those who dismiss most or all of his career. It's kinda like Will Clark taking over the Hall Of Fame and remaking it in his own image. I don't think even that evocative image does it justice -- more like Will Clark taking over all of baseball from Little League on up to the HOF and trying to remake it in his image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 So Miles was not very good at playing Monk? Well... not on the music's own terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danasgoodstuff Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 So Miles was not very good at playing Monk? Well... not on the music's own terms. Inotherwords, he was very good at being Miles playing Monk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 FWIW, Miles recast/simplified the bridge of "Well You Needn't," just as he did the bridge of Benny Carter's "When Lights Are Low." For the most part, most people now play those pieces using Miles' simplifications. OTOH, in both cases, what Miles chose to do to those pieces was not malicious or thoughtless or some such; what he did just made those pieces more attractive for him to play on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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