Japanese Jazz

[JSngry]

Sleepy, that guy, the time is not right.

Maximum points for sincerity though, that's not the issue. 

[mjazzg]

7 hours ago, T.D. said:

If you want straight-ahead, perhaps exercise a degree of caution with the Watanabe/Mariano albums. I have a couple on which Charlie Mariano goes into his Indian bag and plays some nagaswaram. Not unpleasant, but perhaps not what the OP had in mind. The bossa titles should be safe.

They sound great, which albums are they?

[T.D.]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

They sound great, which albums are they?

Definitely this one (CM only listed on as, but see cover image):

Although similarly not credited, I get the impression at least tracks 1 and 4 on this album also have nagaswaram (ditto on the cover photo). It's a fine album at any rate, with essentially the same personnel except for Togashi(!) on drums.

Edited October 6, 2023 by T.D.

[Rabshakeh]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

The West Liners is a name that I come across sometimes.  Any suggestions for their records or adjacent?

9 hours ago, HutchFan said:

Interesting.  I would be hesitant to say that Japanese jazz was more dependent on American models than European jazz was -- as a blanket sort of statement -- particularly if we're focusing on first half of the Seventies.  I might be more comfortable with the assertion if we were talking about the second half of the decade.  During that time, in Japan there was definitely a lot of jumping on the fusion bandwagon. 

But -- even if we take the later-70s into account -- it seems like there were many European and Japanese jazz musicians  striking out in new & interesting directions during the decade. 

Rereading that post, it was an absurd overstatement, and not what I had really intended to say. I have gone back amended.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Rabshakeh

[mjazzg]

42 minutes ago, T.D. said:

Definitely this one (CM only listed on as, but see cover image):

Although similarly not credited, I get the impression at least tracks 1 and 4 on this album also have nagaswaram (ditto on the cover photo). It's a fine album at any rate, with essentially the same personnel except for Togashi(!) on drums.

Thanks T.D. I have the second but the first is new to me

[clifford_thornton]

5 hours ago, T.D. said:

Definitely this one (CM only listed on as, but see cover image):

Although similarly not credited, I get the impression at least tracks 1 and 4 on this album also have nagaswaram (ditto on the cover photo). It's a fine album at any rate, with essentially the same personnel except for Togashi(!) on drums.

Don't forget this one:

also issued later with this cover:

It's a bit more straight ahead than We Got a New Bag. Iberian Waltz isn't that out -- and I think it's probably their best.

[unitstructures]

Anyone have recommendations for jazz spots (performance or records) in Kyoto area?

My girlfriend's twin sibling lives there and we are planning on visiting in the spring (we are gonna see a show by the Japanoise artist Masonna)

Edited October 6, 2023 by unitstructures

[clifford_thornton]

6 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

The West Liners is a name that I come across sometimes.  Any suggestions for their records or adjacent?

Rereading that post, it was an absurd overstatement, and not what I had really intended to say. I have gone back amended.

I took History of Modern Japan in college -- taught by westerners of course, as this was the 1990s in the Northwest -- and one point repeatedly made was the idea of "borrowing" in Japanese culture, or taking something and making it one's own. I think this occurs in every culture to varying degrees but it was interesting to kick around in a sophomore seminar. 

[HutchFan]

6 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Rereading that post, it was an absurd overstatement, and not what I had really intended to say. 

No sweat!  . . . In an ideal world, we'd all be sitting around a table in a pub for these sorts of conversations.  It's so much easier to be understood when we have the benefit of seeing one another's facial expressions, body language, and all the rest that comes along with in-person interactions. 

 

[Rabshakeh]

1 minute ago, HutchFan said:

No sweat!  . . . In an ideal world, we'd all be sitting around a table in a pub for these sorts of conversations.  It's so much easier to be understood when we have the benefit of seeing one another's facial expressions, body language, and all the rest that comes along with in-person interactions. 

For context, I was typing with one thumb whilst trying to get my three year old daughter to go to sleep.

[HutchFan]

2 minutes ago, Rabshakeh said:

For context, I was typing with one thumb whilst trying to get my three year old daughter to go to sleep.

Ha!  I remember those days very well -- but it's been a while.  My youngest just turned 21.  😲

 

 

I mentioned Akira Miyazawa earlier.  Neither of us were familiar with his work before Bull Trout in '69. 

Here's a self-titled effort from 1962:

Clearly, the guy liked to fish. 

   

[T.D.]

8 hours ago, clifford_thornton said:

Don't forget this one:

also issued later with this cover:

It's a bit more straight ahead than We Got a New Bag. Iberian Waltz isn't that out -- and I think it's probably their best.

Thanks. I haven't been able to track this one down, but it's on the list.

Does CM play any unusual instruments on this recording? My original post may have been a little misleading: I like the nagaswaram on the other 2 albums.

[clifford_thornton]

Ah -- yeah, this one is pretty much alto-itis. But it's good.

Yamame is an excellent album with an even more excellent cover image -- definitely not so indicative of the territory Miyazawa got into in the late '60s/early '70s, but still a strong Japanese modern jazz effort and his tenor playing is unmistakable.

[T.D.]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, HutchFan said:

Ha!  I remember those days very well -- but it's been a while.  My youngest just turned 21.  😲

 

 

I mentioned Akira Miyazawa earlier.  Neither of us were familiar with his work before Bull Trout in '69. 

Here's a self-titled effort from 1962:

Clearly, the guy liked to fish. 

   

Agreed that Yamame is excellent. Pretty much straight-ahead hard bop and very well done. Only slight criticism I can make is that it's recorded with really heavy reverb, which may not be to everyone's taste.

[T.D.]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:26 PM, Rabshakeh said:

Just revisiting this great thread. Haino, Hino and Heino. Sad that nobody thought to throw in Heinrich Heine.

Turning back to topic, does anyone have a feel for what the acknowledged "classics" of the Japanese jazz scene are for jazz that is not free / fusion / post bop? I.e., what are the most well regarded records in a bop / modernism idiom, between 1945-1968 or thereabout, corresponding to the likes of the Jazz Couriers records, the early Jutta Hipp sides or Barney Wilen's Tilt, in Europe?

Whilst exploring, it seems obvious that there was a scene there that was pretty prolific, and which birthed the 'Big Names' of Akiyoshi and Watanabe among others, but it doesn't seem to attract the reissues like the later stuff. The J Jazz comps start with a 1969 start date.  I don't know whether that is because it was all released on 10"s, because it was a little derivative, or because the covers don't look as cool.  I see names like Shungo Sawada, Hideo Shiraki, George Otsuka and Takeshi Inomata pop up quite a lot.

Does anyone know the records with which to start?

Bossa records welcome. I have happy memories of living Japan and classic j-bossa being a common thing to encounter among certain kinds of middle aged guys.

This is a very boppish 1959 release by Hideo Shiraki (w. Akira Miyazawa on ts):

 

[Rabshakeh]

29 minutes ago, T.D. said:

This is a very boppish 1959 release by Hideo Shiraki (w. Akira Miyazawa on ts):

 

Thanks!

[mjazzg]

An interesting looking reissue label just starting to release downloads of albums from the King label

https://180g-soundfuji.bandcamp.com/music

@Rabshakehlooks like they may cover the era you were asking about up thread

Edited November 8 by mjazzg

[Rabshakeh]

1 hour ago, mjazzg said:

An interesting looking reissue label just starting to release downloads of albums from the King label

https://180g-soundfuji.bandcamp.com/music

@Rabshakehlooks like they may cover the era you were asking about up thread

Oh that does look good.

I'm always interested in these records. The Japanese and European analogues of Britain's Tubby Hayes, Joe Harriott or Dick Morrissey. Like Britain perhaps the more creative stuff came after 1968, but the Europeans and Japanese modernists who came before that point don't seem to have received the same retrospective reissues as the Brits.