Allan Pettersson

[MomsMobley]

I am a fan.

[Larry Kart]

Geshrei on toast, with a side order of weeping. I fell for it way back when (a Dorati LP recording of Symphony No. 7), but when batch after batch began to emerge, I checked out. Perhaps I've missed something mighty important, but I doubt it.

[MomsMobley]

LK, I blew off Pettersson at first myself, generally wanting more harmonic advernture in my modernism but once that need/preference passed...

I was initially turned on by the three concertos for string orchestra (1949-1957), then the sonatas for two violins--

and the 2nd vc above (which is Haendel/Blomstedt btw) & the symphonies. i sing this in the shower lately also--

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwCA-vPcQyU

certainly-- to use 'pop' repertoire examples-- all Sibelians and most who listen to/enjoy 1960s/70s Shosty would find Pettersson at least interesting.

Edited November 21, 2014 by MomsMobley

[Rooster_Ties]

I'm recalling some sort of work of his for String Orchestra (I think), that I just love. Will have to consult my discs at home later tonight to recall the exact title.

[Stefan Wood]

[jeffcrom]

The only thing I've heard by Pettersson is his 16th (and final) Symphony, for alto saxophone and orchestra; I have it on a Swedish Society Discofil LP. It's oddly constructed - in a single movement, with the saxophone featured throughout. I like it, although saxophonist Fred Hemke gets kind of strident in the louder passages.

Larry's first sentence in the second post above is one of the best lines I've read here in awhile.

[Ligeti]

There is an excellent series of CD's put out by BIS - I have a few of them, here's one:

SACD for those people interested in such things - the CD layer sounds great though.

[MomsMobley]

The BIS series is tremendous, I agree Ligeti, though the CPO and other stray recordings, like the DG Baltimore 7th also valuable. You might get kick out of this excerpt from liner notes of Swedish Caprice recording of Concerto for Strings No. 1

"... the largely self-taught composer uses rhythms and sounds that could belong to Stravinsky's "La Sacre du Printemp (which in 1949 had never been performed in Sweden). Likewise, he anticipates the compact sound sounding clusters that Ligeti and Penderecki were to develop into a stylistic device in the 1960s. But the difference is important. Pettersson uses these dense sound-effects as a rhythmic and dynamic relish, whereas Ligeti fashions them into the substance that bears up his practically static world of sound." -- Leif Aare, 1977

[Spontooneous]

I remain a fan despite the sameness that Larry points out.

Great fondness for this disc of the 14th, worth seeking because the recording on CPO doesn't get it:

[David Ayers]

The BIS series is tremendous, I agree Ligeti, though the CPO and other stray recordings, like the DG Baltimore 7th also valuable. You might get kick out of this excerpt from liner notes of Swedish Caprice recording of Concerto for Strings No. 1

"... the largely self-taught composer uses rhythms and sounds that could belong to Stravinsky's "La Sacre du Printemp (which in 1949 had never been performed in Sweden). Likewise, he anticipates the compact sound sounding clusters that Ligeti and Penderecki were to develop into a stylistic device in the 1960s. But the difference is important. Pettersson uses these dense sound-effects as a rhythmic and dynamic relish, whereas Ligeti fashions them into the substance that bears up his practically static world of sound." -- Leif Aare, 1977

Duh. Rite had been published. Are we saying he could neither read music nor leave Sweden to hear it? And re. the difference between substance (Ligeti) and sound-effect (AP) - give me strength. Like all those reviewers in the Wire who think any example of grungy electronica is Stockhausen.

So from Moms in the last few weeks we have had Pettersson yes Boulez no. Hm.

[Daniel A]

Of course he could hardly have been unaware of Stravinsky. But he came from a very poor family and suffered from a lifelong illness that severely restricted his ability to move. I doubt he traveled much.

[Chuck Nessa]

I possibly introduce Larry to Pettersson back in the late '70s, but I followed the same path.

[soulpope]

IMO impressive readings of Symphonies 7+11 by Norrköping Symphony Orchestra and Leif Segerstam (released on BIS)

[MomsMobley]

The BIS series is tremendous, I agree Ligeti, though the CPO and other stray recordings, like the DG Baltimore 7th also valuable. You might get kick out of this excerpt from liner notes of Swedish Caprice recording of Concerto for Strings No. 1

"... the largely self-taught composer uses rhythms and sounds that could belong to Stravinsky's "La Sacre du Printemp (which in 1949 had never been performed in Sweden). Likewise, he anticipates the compact sound sounding clusters that Ligeti and Penderecki were to develop into a stylistic device in the 1960s. But the difference is important. Pettersson uses these dense sound-effects as a rhythmic and dynamic relish, whereas Ligeti fashions them into the substance that bears up his practically static world of sound." -- Leif Aare, 1977

Duh. Rite had been published. Are we saying he could neither read music nor leave Sweden to hear it? And re. the difference between substance (Ligeti) and sound-effect (AP) - give me strength. Like all those reviewers in the Wire who think any example of grungy electronica is Stockhausen.

So from Moms in the last few weeks we have had Pettersson yes Boulez no. Hm.

uh... reading comprehension? i don't know Leif Aare but the implication is NOT that Pettersson didn't know Stravinsky 'Sacre' but rather that the musical conservatism of Sweden then excluded 'Sacre'-- which seems surprising but I'm not Swedish-- and thus it's instructive example of Pettersson's individualism that he'd pursue that line knowing the cold reception likely awaiting.

re: Pettersson v. Ligeti, we await your more informed comparison of the scores?

FWIW, Aare literally wrote the book on Pettersson--

https://openlibrary.org/works/OL2574845W/Allan_Pettersson

Swedish Wiki sez (caveat lector)--

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Aare

which doesn't mean Aare's correct, let alone infallible & he likely has a rooting interest but...

... who else would even bother?

Sym 12 with chorus, texts fron Neruda,

choral director above Anders Eby is revered by an informed coterie for his superb recording of JSB Massa H-moll

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004UUGY

Edited December 1, 2014 by MomsMobley

[Larry Kart]

I possibly introduce Larry to Pettersson back in the late '70s, but I followed the same path.

Yes, you did (introduce me to Pettersson, that is). I've still got that Dorati Symphony No. 7 LP.

[David Ayers]

Actually there are several books on Swedish on Pettersson so Aare is not the only one that would bother. I'm not going to read any though.

[MomsMobley]

from http://pettersson100.de/literatur.html

Literatur (Auswahl)

Göran Bergendal, 33 svenska komponister, Stockholm 1972, S. 207–213.

Rolf Davidson, Om Allan Petterssons sextiotalssymfonier, in: Nutida musik 17 (1973/74), H. 2, S. 30–36.

Leif Aare, Allan Pettersson, Stockholm 1978.

Paul Rapoport, Allan Pettersson and his Symphony No. 2, in: ders., Opus est. Six Composers from Northern Europe, London 1978, S. 108– 132.

Allan Gustaf Pettersson 1911–1980, Berlin 1984.

Peter Revers, Allan Pettersson: 7. Sinfonie, in: Melos 46 (1984), H. 3, S. 103–125.

Gerhard Schönfelder, Allan Pettersson, 7. Sinfonie, in: Prinzip Wahrheit – Prinzip Schönheit, hrsg. von Gerhard Schönfelder und Hans Åstrand, Stockholm 1984, S. 311–340.

Ivanka Stoianova, Die Raum-Symphonik von Allan Pettersson, in: Allan Pettersson Jahrbuch 1986, Wuppertal 1987, S. 17–34.

Peter Revers, Gustav Mahler und Allan Pettersson, in: Das Gustav-Mahler-Fest Hamburg 1989, Bericht über den Internationalen Gustav-Mahler-Kongreß, hrsg. von Matthias Vogt, Kassel 1991, S. 363–373.

Ola Nordenfors, »Känslans kontrapunkt«. Studier i den svenska romansen 1900–1950, Uppsala 1992 (= Skrifter utgivna av Litteraturvetenskapliga Institutionen 28).

Musik von Allan Pettersson. Konzerte 1994/95 und ein Symposion, hrsg. vom Sekretariat für gemeinsame Kulturarbeit in Nordrhein-Westfalen, (Wuppertal 1994).

Rolf Davidson, Allan Pettersson, in: Musiken i Sverige, Bd. 4: Konstmusik, folkmusik, populärmusik 1920–1990, hrsg. von L. Jonsson u.a., Stockholm 1994 (= Kungl. Musikaliska Akademiens skriftserie 74/4), S. 463–475.

Allan Pettersson (1911–1980). Texte – Materialien – Analysen, hrsg. von Michael Kube, Hamburg 1994.

Anna Kwak, A performer's Analysis of Allan Pettersson's Concerto No. 2 for Violin and Orchestra, D.M.A. Ohio State University (Columbus / Ohio) 1994 (mschr.).

etc etc

***

Paul Rappaport also a notable Sorabjist & Holmboevine

from memory?

atypical maybe but

[JSngry]

Heard this (Concerto No. 1) today and was drawn in by the stubborn sternness of line, how he never really let it go, just kept it on an endless runway of starting to leave the ground but then pulling it back down, very interesting on initial hearing, but I could see how "that kind of thing" could/would grow wearying over time/multiple works, so my question is - is it all like this/that or what, exactly? Maybe it's a Nordic thing, I wouldn't understand? Past a certain point, anyway?

One more question, seriously - who pays these guys to write all this stuff? Is it all government or are there some individual patrons? Corporate sponsors? I know they don't have a working band and I know they're not starving, and I know they have a lot of time to do all this, so...where does the money come from?

[David Ayers]

How composers earn is a good question. In Pettersson's case I read that he had a Swedish government award from 1964. So there were lean years from 1952 when he had to resign his position as an orchestral player due to rheumatoid arthritis. He was from a relatively poor background. In Finland, Aho has had a state salary to compose since 1993. No wonder he can - as moms said - do what he likes. One difference is that Pettersson was an outsider, just a musician, while Aho was a professor of composition. These countries are doing a logical thing in trying to develop a national talent base and a national concert music, and in terms of the Nordic countries I'd say the big success is the number of conductors that come out of the Sibelius Academy- Salonen, Saraste, Vänskä, Oramo, Storgårds - but I do think some composers are pushed at us too hard.

[Larry Kart]

As I mentioned on this thread (I think), at one point I bought a lot of Scandinavian modern classical CDs from the Jazz Record Mart, where some guy in the community who received them as freebies was selling all or most of those he received. Much of what I encountered that way I found interesting, particularly up to the time (late-1960s, perhaps?) when most Scandinavian composers still had some regional (not international) inclinations and ambitions -- e.g. pre M. Lindberg, Saariahio, et al. In any case, everything on those labels was (I believe) subsidized in some form or another.

[JSngry]

Subsidized a lot, ok, cool.

Now as for the works of Mr. Pettersson, is the work I heard pretty much representative of his intent & method, or is he one of those guys who morphed/evolved as he went along?

[MomsMobley]

Subsidized a lot, ok, cool.

Now as for the works of Mr. Pettersson, is the work I heard pretty much representative of his intent & method, or is he one of those guys who morphed/evolved as he went along?

I'd say the string concertos are somewhat predictive but not representative of AP, who definitely evolves. The symphony is his primary meat and though his fans quibble, I'd say from Symphony 5 through 11 are 'most' representative (12 is choral symphony, see above). You can snag cheap single issues from the CPO series on Amazon btw, any/all are recommended. Christian Lindberg on BIS is great, however.

This is symphony 9 cond. Alun Francis from CPO cycle (which like the BIS is mixed conductors/orchestras)--

[MomsMobley]

There is, it has been been learned, a very good website devoted entirely to Pettersson both on cd and in concert, the latter almost unimaginable in what passes for concert life in America (tho' there is at least one notable exception)--

http://allanpettersson100.blogspot.com

Author is ex-Wisconsin music student / musician moved to Helsinki, where he seems to befriended the major Petterssonians from beloved Robert von Bahr & Christian Lindberg on down... Includes fascinating testimonials from conductor Alun Francis, meeting with Leif Segerstam etc ++.

Fans and skeptics alike can't fail to be enlightened, esp. re: close listening in era where many drown / slip in big box / streaming vomit.

Alan Silva sidenote: I would not be surprised if some of Alan's orchestral endeavors were at least slightly informed by the energy / density of Allan P. Likewise Anthony Braxton though it's possible-- likely?-- they got there seperately, it'd be interesting to find out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4INtNxem-0