Wayne Shorter - Opinions sought

[Guy Berger]

I'm really embarrassed to say, as a big Wayne fan, that I have not yet heard Odyssey of Iska.

Et Cetera is a must hear if you're into the label's edgier mid-60s post-bop recordings.

[jazzbo]

The recent cd of Odyssey sounds really good imo. Give it a shot.

[marcello]

Which Wayne soprano sound are we talking about? The one he had when he was just starting to deal with the instrument, the one that he had when started feeling really comfortable with it, or the later one where he could/can make it make any sound it needed to make any time he wanted to?

Same thing with Sonny Rollins' post=comeback sound, people say they don't like it, I have to ask, again, which one? Because there are several, neither him nor Wayne are people who just got "a sound" and stayed there no matter what. They kept working with it and over time it would become something else altogether. Some of it age, some of is clarity, some of it is a greater command, all of that.

Well said and all of the above. He started out with a very good sound and it became more commanding over time. Just like Tim's.

[JSngry]

The level of affection I have for Moto Grosso Feio is not shared by anyone else, so I'm willing to believe that it's a quirk of mine.

Ok, I'd be interested in hearing what the appeal is for you, you know, compare notes. To me, the issue preventing my fuller enjoyment is what I hear as a tentativeness/lack of a real center like there is on Odyssey, which I hear as highly focused, almost laser-like so.

Moto almost strikes me as a rehearsal or a loose jam. Maybe that's what you like, the openness? Different strokes, and all that. . OTOH, I took off "Montezuma" and played it on gigs for about a year.

Seriously, I'd like to know what grabs you about this one, because I've been coming back to it for 30+ years thinking there's something there that I've missed. If you can lead me closer to finding it, I'd appreciate it.

Again, seriously. Lon, you too. I know you guys don't react to music casually or carelessly.

[danasgoodstuff]

Etc. is just as unique as the others, only more subtly so, IMHO. One of the things I particularly dig about it is Cecil McBee. And it's not really just another mid-60s Wayne Shorter BlueNote, not Adams Apple pt II, despite the title, ti's way darker for starters...

Etc. is just as unique as the others, only more subtly so, IMHO. One of the things I particularly dig about it is Cecil McBee. And it's not really just another mid-60s Wayne Shorter BlueNote, not Adams Apple pt II, despite the title, ti's way darker for starters...good pointabout the mallability of Shorter's sound, in the service of the compositions, always.

Edited November 22, 2014 by danasgoodstuff

[JSngry]

yeah, the four bar bridge on "Toy Tune" is insidiously subliminally subversive. Not that the rest of the tune isn't, but that bridge is like did that just happen, I know that just happened, but...did that really just happen?

[jeffcrom]

The level of affection I have for Moto Grosso Feio is not shared by anyone else, so I'm willing to believe that it's a quirk of mine.

Ok, I'd be interested in hearing what the appeal is for you, you know, compare notes. To me, the issue preventing my fuller enjoyment is what I hear as a tentativeness/lack of a real center like there is on Odyssey, which I hear as highly focused, almost laser-like so.

Moto almost strikes me as a rehearsal or a loose jam. Maybe that's what you like, the openness? Different strokes, and all that. . OTOH, I took off "Montezuma" and played it on gigs for about a year.

Seriously, I'd like to know what grabs you about this one, because I've been coming back to it for 30+ years thinking there's something there that I've missed. If you can lead me closer to finding it, I'd appreciate it.

Again, seriously. Lon, you too. I know you guys don't react to music casually or carelessly.

Just listened to Moto Grosso Feio, prompted by a desire to respond intelligently to this request. Now I find that I don't want to "explain" anything.

This record gets under my skin and touches my heart. That's all I care to say about it.

I used to play "Montezuma," too.

[JSngry]

That's the best explanation there is.

[jazzbo]

The level of affection I have for Moto Grosso Feio is not shared by anyone else, so I'm willing to believe that it's a quirk of mine.

Ok, I'd be interested in hearing what the appeal is for you, you know, compare notes. To me, the issue preventing my fuller enjoyment is what I hear as a tentativeness/lack of a real center like there is on Odyssey, which I hear as highly focused, almost laser-like so.

Moto almost strikes me as a rehearsal or a loose jam. Maybe that's what you like, the openness? Different strokes, and all that. . OTOH, I took off "Montezuma" and played it on gigs for about a year.

Seriously, I'd like to know what grabs you about this one, because I've been coming back to it for 30+ years thinking there's something there that I've missed. If you can lead me closer to finding it, I'd appreciate it.

Again, seriously. Lon, you too. I know you guys don't react to music casually or carelessly.

Well, I think the looseness is a draw, sometimes Shorter all tight and chiseled is not an enjoyable listen for me. Looseness and this personnel. . . somehow that allows me to have a slightly different experience with the recording each time.

[Guy Berger]

The recent cd of Odyssey sounds really good imo. Give it a shot.

Lon, this one? I want to make sure I don't get a CD-R by accident.

[jazzbo]

It's really hard to tell WHAT one that one is, it's probably the latest but very hard to tell. . . . similar release date but not exactly the same.

The one I know definitely is the one I'm talking about is this one from cdjapan, probably cheaper from them:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/TYCJ-81071

Edited November 22, 2014 by jazzbo

[xybert]

Feio and Iska are on Spotify for anyone wanting to give them a whirl without investing. I love Shorter, going to order the recent Japanese reissues soon.

[GA Russell]

Feio and Iska are on Spotify for anyone wanting to give them a whirl without investing. I love Shorter, going to order the recent Japanese reissues soon.

Thanks, xybert! I should have looked there first.

[Mark Stryker]

Nothing to add to the original question posed but would like to make this observation:

These were recorded within 12 months: Night Dreamer, JuJu, Speak No Evil, The Soothsayer

These were recorded within 24 months: Night Dreamer, JuJu, Speak No Evil, The Soothsayer, Etcetera, The All Seeing Eye, Adam's Apple

I mean, DAMN!

[Noj]

What a run!

[colinmce]

I simply think the Shorter blue notes with Joe Chambers have a great groove and that Etcetera, Adam's Apple and The All Seeing Eye have a special vibe even beyond fine recordings like Juju or Night Dreamer.

I've heard the later blue notes being discussed years ago and it confirmed to me (rightly or wrongly) that the early to mid 60's Shorter would never be approached again.

Still balking at trying Without a Net - I didn't like any of the earlier recent quartet records and I don't like his sound on soprano saxophone.

BUT upon relistening to the classic blue notes, they rate for me above almost anything released on the great label at that time - their (and his) legendary reputation are very well deserved

I've said it before but I really don't like Adam's Apple. I just don't feel like the tunes are there. The version of "Footprints" doesn't do it for me. All Seeing Eye is nice but muddled to my ears. Give me Night Dreamer, Speak No Evil, Etc, or The Soothsayer any day.

[niels]

Nothing to add to the original question posed but would like to make this observation:

These were recorded within 12 months: Night Dreamer, JuJu, Speak No Evil, The Soothsayer

These were recorded within 24 months: Night Dreamer, JuJu, Speak No Evil, The Soothsayer, Etcetera, The All Seeing Eye, Adam's Apple

I mean, DAMN!

Seconded! That is just plain sick

[Guy Berger]

It's really hard to tell WHAT one that one is, it's probably the latest but very hard to tell. . . . similar release date but not exactly the same.

The one I know definitely is the one I'm talking about is this one from cdjapan, probably cheaper from them:

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/TYCJ-81071

Finally picked this up. Great stuff. This was an amazing period for creative music.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Guy