Thad Jones

[Milestones]

I would like some suggestions on Thad Jones.

As I noted in the thread on Monk's big band record, Thad is under-represented in my collection. I do enjoy 5 by Monk by 5, and it's a shame Monk didn't stick with this particular quintet a bit longer. After Hours is nice jam session with Wess, Burell, and Waldron.

I don't really have anything by the Jones/Lewis Orchestra, but I imagine he's often lost in this big ensemble.

In fact, Thad Jones seemed to show a major affinity to playing in medium and large ensemble--such as the long stint in the Basie band. I even find he's lost on the relatively small ensemble on Hancock's Speak Like a Child.

I would appreciate recommendations of both albums and particular pieces.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Milestones

[jlhoots]

Mosaic MD3-172

[John Tapscott]

Yes, the Mosaic is a splendid set.

This will be much cheaper.

[colinmce]

Mosaic MD3-172

Best option. The Magnificent Thad Jones is available as an RVG and may be his best work. The self-titled album on Debut is also exceptional.

[John Tapscott]

Thad is in great form on this one. Lots of solo space.

[Joe]

Not easy to find, but worth tracking down...

The CD adds bonus tracks.

There's also some ass-kikcing-and-taking-names to be heard on these Dex sessions:

[Milestones]

One wonders if it was in the nature of the Jones brothers to be sideman. Very talented one and all, but Thad worked a lot in the bands of others and seemed to enjoy composing and arranging at least as much as playing; Hank didn't get a serious solo career going until late in life; and one wonders if Elvin would have been Elvin (a legend) had he not been Coltrane's drummer.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Milestones

[paul secor]

My favorite Thad are the recordings he did with Mingus and Monk.

[sidewinder]

Lots of good Thad Jones solo features on the Thad/Mel Mosaic. Any fan of Thad will be sure to appreciate this excellent set.

Other good ones which come to mind as Thad Jones sideman sessions - 'Speak Like A Child' with Herbie H. and 'Another Story' with Stanley Turrentine.

Edited November 6, 2014 by sidewinder

[BillF]

I would like some suggestions on Thad Jones.

I don't really have anything by the Jones/Lewis Orchestra, but I imagine he's often lost in this big ensemble.

As he co-led the orchestra and wrote and arranged many of the compositions played as well as being a heavily featured soloist, I don't see how he could be "lost" in it. More accurate to say he expressed the whole of his musical personality through the orchestra.

Edited November 6, 2014 by BillF

[Larry Kart]

I've always had the feeling that Thad, for all his intelligence and at times striking individuality as a player, especially early on (Mingus famously referred him as "Bartok with valves"), never quite realized his potential as a player. A fair number of times IMO there was something a bit studied about his solos, a certain lack of "blowing" feel compared to such figures as, say, Clifford Brown or Lee Morgan. OTOH, one could argue that a "blowing" feel is not everything nor is it an unimpeachable virtue in itself. Also, If I'm pointing to something that was in fact there, that thing probably was just a part of who Thad was and thus was not separable from the undeniable virtues of his playing. Thad as a writer probably is another whole story.

[JSngry]

That Period album with Sonny on one side, and a group of Thad group on the other has some excellent playing by both leaders. The Sonny cuts are out there in The Freelance Years, but the Thad cuts are a little more orphaned.

Discussed here, sorta

I still like the stuff with Mingus as "Oliver King". Thad was handling all that bitonal stuff with a perfectly straight face, a quality he would maintain for as long as I can tell, so I guess he was hearing like that before, during and after. I love it, there's a color that comes from it that you really don't get out of anybody else's playing, especially with that real bright tone of his thrown into the mix.

Ok, this is probably all written (except for, perhaps, the ending tag, which if improvised would be all the more telling), but still, delivered with full understanding, purpose, and conviction.

[JSngry]

OTOH, one could argue that a "blowing" feel is not everything nor is it an unimpeachable virtue in itself. Also, If I'm pointing to something that was in fact there, that thing probably was just a part of who Thad was and thus was not separable from the undeniable virtues of his playing.

Yeah, I'd go with that one.

Funny, on that Period side I posted above, I just noticed how Thad's phrasing sounds a lot like Don Cherry only with a brassy sound. Real "bursty".

He was playing coronet a lot in those days, wasn't he?

[Larry Kart]

I spent some time with Thad one long, very interesting (at least to me) and also semi-goofy night in NYC in 1985, just after he briefly took over leadership of the Basie Band. That there was a whole lot running through his mind at any one time was among the impressions I had; he noticed everything, and the fact that he did so somehow seemed to ensure that more stuff would be happening than otherwise would be the case. I plan to write about that night some time, as one of a series of jazz-related anecdotes that I was a part of and/or present for, many of them somewhat humorous (I hope). Names may have to be changed in some cases (though not this one) to protect the innocent.

[marcello]

The Thad & Mel quartet set that was originaly on Artist House and The Magnigficent Thad Jones are wonderful things. A original improviser!

[Michael Weiss]

I spent some time with Thad one long, very interesting (at least to me) and also semi-goofy night in NYC in 1985, just after he briefly took over leadership of the Basie Band. That there was a whole lot running through his mind at any one time was among the impressions I had; he noticed everything, and the fact that he did so somehow seemed to ensure that more stuff would be happening than otherwise would be the case. I plan to write about that night some time, as one of a series of jazz-related anecdotes that I was a part of and/or present for, many of them somewhat humorous (I hope). Names may have to be changed in some cases (though not this one) to protect the innocent.

I saw the Basie band directed by Thad at the Henry Street Settlement that year. I don't think he played any of his arrangements. I know he didn't play any of his compositions.

[danasgoodstuff]

Fine musician to be sure, but that Pop Goes the Weasel quote just grates every time I hear it, and I'm OK with quotes generally, so go figure...

[flat5]

Thad Jones - After Hours 1957
Thad Jones - Debut Thad Jones 1955
Thad Jones - Detroit, New York Junction 1956
Thad Jones - Jones Inc. 1956-1957
Thad Jones - Mad Thad 1957
Thad Jones - Olio 1957
Thad Jones - The Complete BN-UA-Roulette Recordings 1956-1960
Thad Jones - The Jones Brothers - Keepin' Up With The Joneses 1958
Thad Jones - The Magnificent Thad Jones 1956

Sideman dates:
Frank Wess - Opus De Blues 1959
Frank Wess - The Long Road 1962-1963

Edited November 7, 2014 by flat5

[Gheorghe]

I don't really have anything by the Jones/Lewis Orchestra, but I imagine he's often lost in this big ensemble.

If he had been only "lost", it would have been much more than I witnessed.

When I saw the band (Thad Jones-Mel Lewis) around 1978, Thad Jones didn´t even have his trumpet. He just "conducted", a big disappointment for me, since I was a young guy, already had heard Thad Jones´ trumpet on records and was lookin forward hearing him with HIS Big Band.

Well , after so many years, naturally my musical insight grew, and now I understand what it means to conduct, but then I didn´t understand what´s about music if you don´t play your instrument....

Anyway, even if I was disappointed that Mr. Jones didn´t play the trumpet on that evening, later I noticed there must have been something about his conducting, because after he died and Mel Lewis continued the band for a short time, nothing was happening. Sad, because Mel Lewis was a helluva drummer, but the band without Thad wasn´t the band anymore.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Gheorghe

[soulpope]

[Milestones]

Bear in mind I don't really know the work of the Jones/Lewis orchestra at all.

[mjzee]

Another vote for The Magnificent TJ. The CD has a beautiful duet with Kenny Burrell as a bonus track. And a great cover:

[John Tapscott]

I don't really have anything by the Jones/Lewis Orchestra, but I imagine he's often lost in this big ensemble.

, later I noticed there must have been something about his conducting, because after he died and Mel Lewis continued the band for a short time, nothing was happening. Sad, because Mel Lewis was a helluva drummer, but the band without Thad wasn´t the band anymore.

My point of view is significantly different.

[JSngry]

The subject of Thad's sudden disappearance from the America scene (and the circumstance under which he return) are still one of the "unsolved mysteries" of jazz. Plenty of rumors at the time, and Mel never seemed to really find his peace about it.

I can see both points about Thad/Mel vs Mel/Vanguard Orchestra. Those really were (or became) two different orchestras in terms of style and personality. Time was making that happen even before Thad left, but once he did, everything accelerated. For me, the early-ish Thad/Mel was definitive, the later Thad/Mel sweet but changed, and Mel?Vanguard something else entirely, something I enjoyed but for totally different reasons. But that early Thad/Mel, up until the "veteran" contingent had dwindled down to just a few stalwarts, that was something special.

[Peter Friedman]

The subject of Thad's sudden disappearance from the America scene (and the circumstance under which he return) are still one of the "unsolved mysteries" of jazz. Plenty of rumors at the time, and Mel never seemed to really find his peace about it.

I can see both points about Thad/Mel vs Mel/Vanguard Orchestra. Those really were (or became) two different orchestras in terms of style and personality. Time was making that happen even before Thad left, but once he did, everything accelerated. For me, the early-ish Thad/Mel was definitive, the later Thad/Mel sweet but changed, and Mel?Vanguard something else entirely, something I enjoyed but for totally different reasons. But that early Thad/Mel, up until the "veteran" contingent had dwindled down to just a few stalwarts, that was something special.

Jim has summed up my opinion very well. I enjoyed all 3 periods of the Orchestra, but each was a bit different and the first was my favorite.