bLiNdFoLd TeSt #7 - discussion

[couw]

Mike (or anyone else):

Track 2. Somebody tell me more about that drum pattern that sets in around the 2:10 mark

Then quoting mike's remark on # 8: "More film sound tracks ... Good use of the alto flute. But the rhythm section is a little too loose for my taste, not really together."

I think the percussion and the blowing part were put together after the fact. Judging from what I know that is.

[mikeweil]

Not sure if the hose was for sanitary purposes, or if some models came with that so you could hold it in front of you like a regular keyboard (perfect for the anal types who can't FUNCTION unless everything is "just so"), or if you could use it to get a Vocoder-like effect, not unlike what a harmonica player does by varying the size and shape of his/her oral cavity. I just don't know.

Yes, that's a very simple and practical explanation for that hose: It came together with a stand to put the melodica on so it lay on the table like a keyboard, and the hose enabled you to blow into it while playing two-handed like on a piano .... I bought me one of these ditties way back around 1970. The hose and stand was available only for the larger model Jack deJohnette so splendidly used on the DeJonette Complex:

But you couldn't get no vocoder effect with this, no way! I still have it.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

# 18: This could be the same percussionist playing on the original Decca single of Peggy Lee's "Fever" - I always wanted to know who this is. Damn, I've hardly written this and it's over - part of a suite or more film music?

At the onset of compiling this set I actually had "Fever" in this same spot as played by the New York Composers Orchestra with the saxophonist from the next cut. I love it when this stuff happens.

[mikeweil]

Mike (or anyone else):

Track 2. Somebody tell me more about that drum pattern that sets in around the 2:10 mark

Before that it's basically a samba. After 2:10 it's a calypso pattern or tresillo the drummer plays, but the trumpets on top play the rhythmelodic pattern of some sacred cuban song for the Oricha Shangó, so the arranger must know his stuff or he just picked it up from some cuban record without knowing what he did. That blues melody - the main theme - sounds familiar to me, but I can't put my finger on it.

That drum pattern is a very common one.

[couw]

After 2:10 it's a calypso pattern or tresillo the drummer plays...That drum pattern is a very common one.

I dig the shit out of it everytime I hear it.

[Jim R]

12. ...The piano solo strikes me as tenative, as if the player wasn’t really comfortable with this piece...

Or, with this instrument? (now that I've read some of the other posts, it begins to become clearer... I own this CD )

[mikeweil]

Then quoting mike's remark on # 8: "More film sound tracks ... Good use of the alto flute. But the rhythm section is a little too loose for my taste, not really together."

I think the percussion and the blowing part were put together after the fact. Judging from what I know that is.

To me the problem is that the

1. flute and vibes,

2. drum set and conga,

3. rhythm guitar,

4. piano,

5. bass

all play with slightly different phrasing.

The piano tinkling and guitar are simply too much for me - without them it would have been a perfect track.

But I don't think anyone here overdubbed.

[Jim R]

FWIW...

Melodica

Variations of this keyboard have since been manufactured by numerous companies in different regions of the world, each giving the instrument a different name i.e. pocket piano, blow accordion, melodeon, diamonica, melodyhorn, wind piano, keyboard harmonica, pianica, cassotto, etc

The melodica is a free-reed instrument similar to the accordion and harmonica. It has a musical keyboard on top, and is played by blowing air through a mouthpiece that fits into a hole in the side of the instrument. Pressing a key opens a hole, allowing air to flow through a reed. The keyboard is usually two or three octaves long.

Tenor melodicas are the most common type of melodica. The left hand holds a handle on the bottom, and the right hand plays the keyboard. Tenor melodicas can be played with two hands by inserting a tube into the mouthpiece hole and placing the melodica on a flat surface.

Soprano melodicas are thinner than tenors and are designed to be played with both hands at once; the left hand plays the black keys, and the right hand plays the white keys.

Popular melodica manufacturers include Hohner, Samick, and Bestler.

[mikeweil]

After 2:10 it's a calypso pattern or tresillo the drummer plays...That drum pattern is a very common one.

I dig the shit out of it everytime I hear it.

Then you will dig the shit of some of the Olatunji stuff I copied for ya ... I have to send it, my God --- don't blame me, gettin' older is hard work

[couw]

ouch!!! sorry mike, I was thinking about track 9.

I will check where my counting went off and correct my post above.

Sorry once again.

[Man with the Golden Arm]

After 2:10 it's a calypso pattern or tresillo the drummer plays...That drum pattern is a very common one.

I dig the shit out of it everytime I hear it.

Oh man guys. This is what's great about this whole BFT thing. That cut has some big shoulders. I put it up after that brazen intro just because of how they both seem to have those huge Red Sea breaks in the mix of all that's going on. Track #2 seems inconsequentail at the start when butted up to the first one but it's how Mike splains it that it just goes over the top. How often do we get a cuica with a triple shot in a so called cheese laden tune? Trust me on this one that the arranger knows his stuff!

And then #3 just picks up the ball and ...

[mikeweil]

The basic principle of free reeds used in Melodicas, harmonicas and accordions was copied from an East Asian instrument family, the oldest of which probably is the khene from Laos.

The Chinese sheng and Japanese sho were developped from this.

Another khene link with sound sample.

Edited February 24, 2004 by mikeweil

[JSngry]

I used to have a bong that looked like that...

[couw]

I used to have a bong that looked like that...

but bigger I bet

[mikeweil]

I used to have a bong that looked like that...

... but I bet he has more tubes than you had .

[mikeweil]

I used to have a bong that looked like that...

but bigger I bet

Be careful: there are khenes up to five or even six feet high!

[JSngry]

I dunno, man, Denton in the 70s was not a place for amateurs, if you know what I mean...

[couw]

somehow, I'm glad I'm younger than you guys...

[randyhersom]

Nice set. Seems to take off in the groove of track 1 from couw's BFT and work in that area. Mellow and a little lounge-y. Solos support the mood and composition, don't generally call attention to themselves.

1. Usually the modern synth jockeys don't go for real horns, so even though this sounds contemporary and from outside the jazz mainstream, I'm thinking the leader is associated more with the jazz mainstream than trance or house or lounge. I like the monolithic crunching beat. Graham Haynes?

2. Nice segue into a west coast feel, then another shift within the song itself. I don't recall Shorty Rogers or Bob Brookmeyer incorporating this much in the way of African elements. Maybe Duke Pearson?

3. Art Pepper? Plus Eleven?

4. It feels like Sonny Criss, but it's not the Sonny's Dream album, and I don't know of other larger groups featuring him except JATP. Not funky enough for Cannonball Adderley or Lou Donaldson. I'll guess Charles McPherson

5. Gerry Mulligan?

6. Shorty Rogers?

7. Cool vibes, and some voicings in the horns that remind me of Oliver Nelson's Stolen Moments. Oliver will be my guess, although that would likely make the vibist Lem Winchester, and this sounds too modern for him.

8. Cal Tjader? Not an overwhelmingly Latin feel.

9. I get the feel of a more avant-garde player holding back a bit here. Jimmy Guiffre on tenor?

10. Kip Hanrahan comes to mind here, although it could be someone identified with a more purely Latin style.

11. One of those segues that you have to look at the track number indicator to check. Very similar melody and groove. Tito Puente?

12. I have a feeling I'm falling for the bait, but I'm going with Stan Getz.

13. Hendrik Meurkens? Latin plus harmonica. I should listen closer, that could be a concertina or something. It's not a harmonica. The only name I know to try is Mat Matthews, who I've never heard. The tenor soloist is quite good.

We've got ourselves a true connoisseiur of the squeeze box here. I don't know the names of enough accordianists to come up with enough guesses. I'm totally shooting in the dark here.

14. No real clue, but very nice. Richard Galliano?

15. No real clue, but very nice. Astor Piazzolla?

16. Seems to be an update of the smoky romanticism of Gil Evans, probably featuring one of the newer tenors. Joshua Redman perhaps?

17. Stanley Turrentine on CTI?

18. Short interlude for tenor and trumpet. Johnny Griffin?

19. Kinda reminiscent of Ghetto Lights. I'll guess Wynton Marsalis by a hair over Freddie Hubbard?

20. You expect to hear piano, not organ, on a Mose Allison date. I'm thinking not quite for various reasons on Kurt Elling, Jon Hendricks, Mark Murphy and even Trudy Pitts with Mr C. I guess that brings me back to Mose Allison.

I've got very little confidence in my guesses, I'd be thrilled to get four right.

[Nate Dorward]

Two players who use the melodica regularly (& well) are Michael Moore (the saxophonist not bassist) & John Wolf Brennan.

Hm, so I goofed on the Gordon i.d.! Ah well... But I'm sure it's Zorn on 4. No idea who the pianist on it is though. For my money Zorn's best stab at making it as a hardbopper is the Sonny Clark tribute disc on Black Saint, though--it's not bad at all. -- Nice to hear some informed discussion of the percussion rhythms on the various tracks, as that's easily my weakest point (shortly followed by melodica playing, obviously). In discussing any music in this area I usually end up just throwing up my hands & lumping everything together as "Latin", which I'm sure is enough to give anyone who knows something about the matter (e.g. Pete C) the willies.

[Peter Johnson]

Man, it's unbelievable watching you guys speculate about the tunes...everytime I think I know a lot about music, I come to these threads and see that some of you know more about it than I'll ever forget!!!

Love watching these answers...oy!

[Man with the Golden Arm]

But I'm sure it's Zorn on 4.  No idea who the pianist on it is though.  For my money Zorn's best stab at making it as a hardbopper is the Sonny Clark tribute disc on Black Saint, though--it's not bad at all. --

Nate,

I'd love to get more of your take on Zorn here. You got him and he appears elswhere that I think you nailed too. His playing on track #4 doesn't seem to thrill you I know and frankly I agree that the Clark "Voodoo" on Black Saint is truly a must for any. I was going to toss on another of his from the Spillane sessions called "Skit Rhesus" where he really goes at it in his accessible post bop thrash. Aside from his Masada work, which seems to be becoming totally his own sole avenue for his soloing, I'd be curious for you, or anybody, to pick at him a bit more. I must confess that without that 'News For LuLu' disc from years ago that turn-on that was lying in wait with only a handful of BNs at the time might have never become a realization.

The piano player is actually the leader of the date on #4. His relaxed excellence and comfort is the key to this cut. I really just love the bouncey-ness of it all, especially after it starts out with such a bright noir lick. Jim's classic quote here regarding it being "Monk with all the night-time removed" is perfect. The rest of the "orchestra" are the usual suspects with the very smiley guy, who for my money is the "trap god", being replaced.

Edited February 24, 2004 by Man with the Golden Arm

[billyboy]

I just received mine Saturday and hadn't had a chance to really listen to it until last night. Although I hadn't heard any of them before, I really enjoyed the groove and flow of the thing. Selected comments below:

1. Henry Mancini with a heavy, funky beat. In a good way.

2. Hip, 60's cool.

3. More hip, swinging cool. I hear this music playing behind the credits to a Matt Helm movie.

5. Like the dancing scene from Band of Outsiders. *clap!*

Don't let my lack of comment imply I didn't like this cd. I don't currently have much, if any, of this type of music in my collection. All of it is very easy and pleasant to listen to, and none of the songs were challenging in an avant-garde kind of way. I feel like I 'got' this music right away, and repeated listenings won't reveal much more that I didn't already hear. And while I probably won't run out and buy any of these cds once I know what they are, I'm very happy to have this cd. Thanks!

[couw]

If track 4 is Zorn, I don't have it in my collection. Go figure. I need to go into seclusion and do nothing all day but listen.

[billyboy]

Relistening to track one, and reading previous comments and hints, it has a Wax Trax sound to it, like an instrumental Revolting Cocks or Foetus.