Kind of Blue - Mostly Other People Do the Killing

[mjzee]

I can't wait until the woman who reviews her husband's stupid record collection shares her thoughts about this album. Talk about meta!

[B. Clugston]

OK, but can they do the same with Get Up With It?

[Teasing the Korean]

That article reveals that the whole thing was not just a prank, no matter what you may think of the album, or the intentions of the group in recording it.

Edited. I misread your post. Lo siento.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Teasing the Korean

[jazzbo]

You'll note that Lord Ptah said "NOT just a prank."

The fact that they have raised the dander of a bunch of aging male jazz purists indicates that they have succeeded on some level.

Word

[Guy Berger]

This article explains a lot regarding their intentions: http://www.popmatters.com/feature/185662-kind-of-kind-of-blue-a-conversation-with-mostly-other-people-do-the-/

Ha! So someone did tell them about Pierre Menard.

Anyway, big shrug here. Fun philosophy exercise and, if they succeeded in their aim, bad music. Save your time and your money - read the Borges story.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Guy

[Rooster_Ties]

Is the remake a quarter-tone sharp?

[David Ayers]

The fact that they have raised the dander of a bunch of aging male jazz purists indicates that they have succeeded on some level.

So true. Who wouldn't want to dedicate their life to generating technically obsolescent products for middle-age guys to hoard in their hobby room. Ars lunga vita brevis.

[bluenoter]

Very interesting. I'm interested, but it seems it's only available as a digital MP3 file, and I don't do those. . . . If a cd appears I'll try it.

It is available in CD format at Squidco, so I assume you can (or will soon be able to) get it from other retailers as well.

Per the lede of the article linked to in #1, it's "due out on Tuesday."

[Teasing the Korean]

Is the remake a quarter-tone sharp?

Yes, and it is the superior mono mix.

[medjuck]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/arts/music/09fireworks.html?_r=0

That's what I thought of right away too. And I really didn't like that film.

Edited October 11, 2014 by medjuck

[jazzbo]

Very interesting. I'm interested, but it seems it's only available as a digital MP3 file, and I don't do those. . . . If a cd appears I'll try it.

It is available in CD format at Squidco, so I assume you can (or will soon be able to) get it from other retailers as well.

Per the lede of the article linked to in #1, it's "due out on Tuesday."

My order from Squidco was mailed today.

[jlhoots]

Very interesting. I'm interested, but it seems it's only available as a digital MP3 file, and I don't do those. . . . If a cd appears I'll try it.

It is available in CD format at Squidco, so I assume you can (or will soon be able to) get it from other retailers as well.

Per the lede of the article linked to in #1, it's "due out on Tuesday."

My order from Squidco was mailed today.

Squidco is great FWIW.

[CJ Shearn]

http://insidethespangalang.tumblr.com/ I read the article, listened to "All Blues" and my thoughts are contained in a brief podcast. I may have to re do it to clean up some rough edges but wanted to get my thoughts out before I forget

Edited October 11, 2014 by CJ Shearn

[Quasimado]

Pretty dumb name for a jazz group ... what were they thinking? (Or am I insensitive?)

Q

[Guy Berger]

Pretty dumb name for a jazz group ... what were they thinking? (Or am I insensitive?)

Q

It's based on a supposed quote from Leon Theremin exculpating Joseph Stalin for murdering millions of Soviet citizens.

[mracz]

I listened to brief samples on the website. For me, whatever the purpose of the exercise, what scuppers it from the beginning is the bass and drums. It just ain't Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb, and the subtleties of the hook-up and subtleties of time feel are completely inimitable, however well you might "imitate" a Miles solo. Re: classical performance, try sampling different versions of the Rite of Spring on the big box set issued last year. You'll be amazed at how wildly different the performances are from each other in countless ways. Playing the notes is NEVER just playing the notes...

[Hot Ptah]

You'll note that Lord Ptah said "NOT just a prank."

The fact that they have raised the dander of a bunch of aging male jazz purists indicates that they have succeeded on some level.

Word

Well, that is a first. I have been called a lot of four letter words, but never Lord.

I have been thinking about this album. It raises an issue about an artist's right to produce whatever kind of art they want. Some art purists did not want Andy Warhol to paint Campbells soup cans. Roy Lichtenstein was criticized for merely copying comic book pages for his paintings. Stravinsky was attacked for "The Rite of Spring." The early French Impressionists came under severe negative criticism from the art establishment. John Coltrane's collaboration with Eric Dolphy was called anti-jazz. Jackson Pollock was called a fraud who just dripped paint randomly onto canvas.

If a musical artist wants to copy Kind of Blue note for note, or play 45 minutes of unaccompanied alto saxophone with no conventional melody or rhythm, or record an unremitting wall of dense sound for 45 minutes which strikes many listeners as sheer cacophony--who are we to pass judgment on their decision to do it? Who are we to say that they can't do it, or shouldn't do it? We may decide as a matter of personal taste that the artist's choice does not speak to us, but I think that is different from questioning the artist's right to produce the art.

Also, it hit me that Kind of Blue seems to get reissued every few years in new packaging at varying degrees of higher or lower pricing--but rarely with anything added to a listener's experience of the album. That has struck me more than once as rather ridiculous, a blatant commercialized mining of the gold so many times that one wonders when the mine will finally be played out. So this new album by Mostly Others...could be viewed as a comment on how the unceasing marketing and reissuing of the album has turned it into a commodity, an object, which is fair game for any treatment or handling.

I have not heard the album by Mostly Others yet. I am just commenting on how the album has made me think about different issues.

[Big Beat Steve]

Also, it hit me that Kind of Blue seems to get reissued every few years in new packaging at varying degrees of higher or lower pricing--but rarely with anything added to a listener's experience of the album. That has struck me more than once as rather ridiculous, a blatant commercialized mining of the gold so many times that one wonders when the mine will finally be played out. So this new album by Mostly Others...could be viewed as a comment on how the unceasing marketing and reissuing of the album has turned it into a commodity, an object, which is fair game for any treatment or handling.

Not the worst point to make ... In fact,, you got a good point there, IMO.

This rehashing and recycling of KOB (and the apparently easy to forecast drooling of the target group about each and every new rehashing job) has also struck me as utterly ridiculous over time. The only objection to make to your statement would be if note-by-note copying is what you would truly call the work of an "artist" or if it isn't rather just a kind of gimmick (KOG?? ). Is this sort of copying truly a form of musical art or is it "just" some kind of musical craft?

As for KOB having "turned it into a commodity, an object, which is fair game for any treatment or handling", would this mean, then, that the ultimate level of treating KOB as such a commodity would be reached if it were given the P.D.Q. Bach treatment, for example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._D._Q._Bach

BTW, anybody care to comment on how the efforts of those KOB coypists would compare with, say, the works of Supersax, for example, when they played Bird's recorded works note by note? Does the scoring of unison or harmonized parts make all the difference? To the best of my knowledge, Supersax never came under fire for copying Bird's solos. But it MIGHT have been shrugged off as a gimmick too.

You'll note that Lord Ptah said "NOT just a prank."

If a musical artist wants to copy Kind of Blue note for note, or play 45 minutes of unaccompanied alto saxophone with no conventional melody or rhythm, or record an unremitting wall of dense sound for 45 minutes which strikes many listeners as sheer cacophony--who are we to pass judgment on their decision to do it? Who are we to say that they can't do it, or shouldn't do it? We may decide as a matter of personal taste that the artist's choice does not speak to us, but I think that is different from questioning the artist's right to produce the art.

True, the right to perform such music should not be questioned, but there is another aspect to cases like the examples you mention. For every one who questions the right to play "45 minutes of cacophony" there is another one who holds those "45 minutes of cacophony" in such high esteem that they go around and proselytize up to the point of - AGAIN - negating anybody's right to be unmoved by this sort of thing, up to the point of proclaiming that "anybody who is not struck in awe" by those "45 minutes of cacophony" has not grasped jazz PER SE.

Case of many typical discussions revolving around the works of Trane, Coleman, Ayler, Brötzmann et al.,. as you probably know ...

BOTH approaches - rejecting the right to perform this music outright as well as refusing the right to reject appreciation of this music - are dead wrong.

It would be futile which was first - the hen or the egg - but I have a hunch that if those proselytizers cut back on their missionary zeal that places those "45 minutes of cacophony" on such a high pedestal (within the wide field of jazz that has SO MANY facets anyway that do not all have to be taken in to the same degree by anybody) there certainly would be far fewer who refuse those artists the right to perform such music in the first place.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Hot Ptah]

^{Your mention of Supersax is very interesting. From what I recall, Supersax was viewed positively for the most part. So what is the real difference?}

^{Also, I heard a concert about fifteen years ago, in which David Baker conducted the Smithsonian Jazz Orchestra in note for note recreations of many of Duke Ellington's classic recordings. David Baker commented that the musicians were playing note for note transcriptions of the original recordings. Of course, this group could not capture the personality of the original Ellington soloists. I recall no critical controversy about this tour. The audience seemed to be delighted by the performance, as I recall. (What really struck me about the concert was how inattentive some of the musicians seemed to be, as they were playing. It hit me--this music seems very easy to them).}

[Hot Ptah]

I have to raise this point, as controversial as it may be. I wonder if this exact same album. literally the exact same music, would have created controversy if it had been recorded by a group of black men, ages 75-85, who presented it as a reverent tribute to the great Miles Davis, and who called their group "We Love Miles."

I wonder if this album is controversial partly because it has been recorded by a bunch of white and Asian musicians, who are young, with no track record of paying their dues in the usual way (the Jazz Messengers, Miles and his sidemen's groups, etc. ), and who have used goofy, irreverent humor in their album titles, liner notes and designs.

[jazzbo]

HP, if I recall correctly "Lord" would be an appopriate title to address Ptah with.

I don't quite seem to understand all the disdain for this release either. I'm actually looking forward to hearing it. The concept interests me. And I'm interested in the recording itself.

[Hot Ptah]

HP, if I recall correctly "Lord" would be an appopriate title to address Ptah with.

I don't quite seem to understand all the disdain for this release either. I'm actually looking forward to hearing it. The concept interests me. And I'm interested in the recording itself.

Oh I see about the Lord remark. My moniker, Hot Ptah, is based on a fictional character in Phillip Roth's "The Great American Novel", a hotheaded major league baseball catcher with a wooden leg, who is quite a comic character in the novel. That character is about as far from a godlike character as one can get, which may have been part of Roth's sense of humor in naming him.

[jazzbo]

That's interesting, I've never read that novel. But I've had an interest in Egyptology since I was 8 so when I see Ptah. . . it's not a catcher I think of!

[Stefan Wood]

For my Part, no disdain, but I wonder if conceptually it works in the same manner as in the visual arts. As a consumer, why would anyone buy this album when they can get the original?

[jazzbo]

This is intriguing to me both as a musician (I'm not much of one but I am one) and a person interested in making recordings (I've done a few as well as entertained an interest in the science/art of recording a long time.)

To me this is not like copying a painting or a drawing or a sculpture, but it may seem that way to an artist. I'm interested to hear if the feeling the music invokes in me has a similarity. I"m also interested in whether the recording captrues a similar ambiance and whether the recording itself is similar or considerably different.

Edited October 13, 2014 by jazzbo