Mosaic Dial set coming soon

[AllenLowe]

de hiss is another matter, yes, and the source of some of the most disgustingly bad work I have heard; though even the cheap de-hiss programs are quite useable if you ignore the auto-settings and work them by hand and frequency.

by the way, I think it is likely that the "swooshing" you are hearing is related to problems on the original recordings, with phasing and mic placement. In which case there is no way to eliminate it short of notch eq. And even that would probably not work.

Edited September 30, 2014 by AllenLowe

[erwbol]

Hello Jonathan,

I noticed your post this morning but was away for the day (dog had to visit the trim salon). I'll post a proper reply in a couple of hours.

Thank you for taking an interest in the discussion on Organissimo.

Email sent.

[romualdo]

Wow, this is going to be a hard call - I've got all of this material except for Garner

Bird Savoy/Dial Atlantic set & the UK Spotlite CDs

[bogdan101]

I believe the samples on the Mosaic site have been changed; sorry, even now they have a processed quality to them that I don't quite like. Short samples of the Parker material from the Fremeaux edition I found online sound more natural, as does my JSP set.

Does anyone have more info about what is the source of the transfers for this new edition? By crediting the producers of that set, Mosaic seem to imply that it is the Japanese edition previously published.

These are arguably some of the most important recordings in jazz; I hope someday someone can come up with better transfers of whatever original sources are still in existence.

[Clunky]

JLH's track record with his reissues is second to none. I'd trust his ears and judgement.

Reviewing my existing Dial material on Spotlite and Stash reveals very marked variations in sound . The Parker material for example is better than the McGhee or Dodo sessions. I'd be especially interested to hear how these latter sessions fair with these new masterings.

[SwingItTrev]

Unfortunate that they sound overly processed, but I guess they can only work with what's available.

[bogdan101]

Spotify has the Charlie Parker "Complete Savoy and Dial Master Takes" from Savoy Jazz, and both Relaxing at Camarillo and especially Cool Blues sound clearly better, with more high frequency content in the horns and cymbals. And, indeed, they are noisier as well.

Maybe the Mosaic samples are still poorly encoded?

Edited October 2, 2014 by bogdan101

[erwbol]

Let's await the finished product. November's not that long off.

[David Ayers]

Let's await the finished product. November's not that long off.

Why the need to wait? Why can't the samples properly reflect the files which will be used for the CDs? The opposite, surely. The samples are and must be reliable.

[Brad]

This will be the first Mosaic I've ordered in a very long time. When I got the email yesterday, my first reaction was "Wow!"

Obviously have all the Bird but getting it anyway. Sweet.

[David Ayers]

Agree with Brad. It's a must. For me the SQ question is much more about different views of how to do things and I'll be interested to hear how it has been done.

[ghost of miles]

The loudest take announcements I've heard are Sonny Stitt's on the VEE of Only the Blues. Holy moley. They're deafening. Almost funny actually.

Just pulled out my CD and listened to these--I think he gets louder with each take! Till take 9, anyway.

[Kevin Bresnahan]

This is a bit confusing so let me ask a few questions to (maybe) clarify some things.

Are the masters no longer available?

If they are not, who has issued the best sounding versions of these sessions?

If they are not, what versions were used to make this set? Were they "masters" from another company's release? Which company? When were they mastered? What did this company use for their sources?

If most of this material was issued on 78 rpm discs, why wouldn't these become the new "masters"?

[kh1958]

My understanding was that the Dial catalogue was not well preserved, unlike Savoy, for which most of the masters were (and are) still in existence when the complete Savoy Bird box set was released. The Dial catalogue was in disarray until Spotlight purchased the rights in the 1970s and issued the Bird Dial LP box set. These were transferred from the best available sources at the time, but I thought mostly from 78s, not masters.

This I thought was why the Dial recordings generally do not sound as good, fidelitywise, as the Savoys.

If this reissue is a significant improvement over the Spotlight version, I'll definitely buy it.

Edited October 3, 2014 by kh1958

[crisp]

The loudest take announcements I've heard are Sonny Stitt's on the VEE of Only the Blues. Holy moley. They're deafening. Almost funny actually.

Just pulled out my CD and listened to these--I think he gets louder with each take! Till take 9, anyway.

Shocking isn't it? Chris Rock has nothing on him.

[ArtSalt]

The Verve Charlie Parker set I find very hard to listen to because of the many false starts and incomplete takes. I love how the Miles Davis/Gil Evans set was programmed.

Aye, there's only so many previously unreleased, newly found and break downs of Leap Frog a man can stand in one sitting.

I am looking forward to this Mosaic, I've the Charlie Parker Story on the 24bit TOCJ-6875/6 from 2007 and the crackles have always got me down, along with the other Dial releases this is a must have for me.

[David Ayers]

I really don't mind crackles. Something to be said for warts-and-all transfers.

[gmonahan]

I really don't mind crackles. Something to be said for warts-and-all transfers.

Hmmm. So are you a fan of the Phil Schaap-produced Benny Goodman Carnegie Hall Concert reissue? I find that unlistenable. I think one can take out the crazy noise and still preserve the music. Davies and Kendall (and others) have done it with remarkable skill.

gregmo

[Big Beat Steve]

Ah, the eternal debate of how to listen to 78s, even as reissues.

I am not familiar with the Schaap-produced BG Carnegie Concert (I still am quite happy with my CBS twofer) but I'd almost bet that reissue has nothing on "Benny Goodman on V-Disc" (Dan Records VC-5022 - yes, JAPANESE reissue!) when it comes to hiss and crackles - not by a LONG (ear)shot!

No difference of opinion here as for Davies' and Kendall's remastering of all those UK (etc.) reissues, but even they often had (to retain) that certain amount of typical 78s background noise and/or slightly muddied overall sound (to confirm, am listening to a Jazz Oracle CD remastered by Kendall as I write this) and it certainly does not detract IMO. It's just part of the game unless you have access to pristine source material.

You just have to make allowances for a modicum of background or (carried-over) surface noise, depending on the source material, and even more so in the case of obscure and rare indy label 78s where the pressing quality may not have been the best in the first place and no metal masters or acetates are available anymore anyway.

I'd prefer a moderate amount of surface or background noise in 78s reissues anytime to all-too-clean reissues where for each stellar remastering job that brings out unheard details you get 100 where all that tidying up has made the sound all too sterile and cuts off specific frequencies.

Maybe some (or possibly many) collectors who usually listen to hi-fi era (and beyond) source recordings may just have to attune their ears to 78s listening and/or get a different set of ears altogether - not least of all because some listening expectations of today's buyers maybe don't even correspond to the way people used to listen to 50s/60s hi fi recordings back then anyway (hasn't there been endless talk and complaints about many recent CD remasterings just being too loud - does this sometimes even mean "shrill", I wonder? - compared to original releases? ).

(Always talking about POST-acoustic era 78s - acoustically recorded 78s up to c.1925 admittedly are a different story, of course)

[king ubu]

Ah, the eternal debate of how to listen to 78s ...

I usually capture my cat and use one of her claws ...

[bogdan101]

Ah, the eternal debate of how to listen to 78s ...

I usually capture my cat and use one of her claws ...

I don't want to know where you put your ear...

Edited October 7, 2014 by bogdan101

[Head Man]

Ah, the eternal debate of how to listen to 78s ...

I usually capture my cat and use one of her claws ...

I don't want to know where you put your ear...

... or your head.

[CJ Shearn]

This set will be one I will definitely be looking after, having all the variety under one roof is too good to pass up. Same reason why I find the Clifford Jordan set appealing, and would like to grab down the line as well.

[Big Beat Steve]

This set will be one I will definitely be looking after, having all the variety under one roof is too good to pass up.

Basically I wouldn't disagree about the convenience of having a "complete opus" like this in one place, but seeing that just about all the Dial one actually needs is either on the usual Bird discs or on that series of Spotlite LPs done all through the 80s (and pretty nicely done IMO), this is not a case like the Keynote recordings, for example, which really were scattered piecemeal all over the place (even for seasoned collectors) unless you had that 21-LP Japanese box set.

But, of course and as always, YMMV (like some are constantly wont to say here )

[Chuck Nessa]

The faulty sound samples on the Mosaic site (http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.asp?number=260-MD-CD)have been replaced with corrected versions. They sound pretty darn good to me.