Scott Dolan Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Here's my problem, Larry. I'm strictly opposed to any violence, and especially that perpetrated by a male on a female. To say a slap is more acceptable than a punch is simply a road I cannot go down. Or to say that a show of concern somehow makes it better than a show of indifference. I disagree with that 100%, with no exceptions or wiggle room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GA Russell Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I read a comment on the Washington Post's website that said that the chief investigator Mueller and the Ravens president Cass were partners in the same law firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Here's my problem, Larry. I'm strictly opposed to any violence, and especially that perpetrated by a male on a female. To say a slap is more acceptable than a punch is simply a road I cannot go down. Or to say that a show of concern somehow makes it better than a show of indifference. I disagree with that 100%, with no exceptions or wiggle room. I'm not saying that in the realm of the unacceptable there are levels of unacceptability but rather that in the realm of the unacceptable some versions of or variations on the unacceptable tell somewhat different stories than other versions of or variations on the unacceptable do, and I feel that those differences have meaning and are worthy of some attention. For instance, you may recall that in Iraq on some occasions some U.S. troops killed captured Iraqis. Unacceptable, right? But those troops in some cases also urinated on the corpses of the men they had killed and took pictures of themselves doing so. To me that says something potentially meaningful about what was going on the minds of those troops in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Still completely disagree. I don't care if they cut their victims skin off and wore it around a la Ed Gein. All that shows is just how twisted and depraved they were. It has no bearing, none, on the fact that they committed murder. The act stands alone, in both a moral and a legal sense. I couldn't care less how Rice responded to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Still completely disagree. I don't care if they cut their victims skin off and wore it around a la Ed Gein. All that shows is just how twisted and depraved they were. It has no bearing, none, on the fact that they committed murder. The act stands alone, in both a moral and a legal sense. I couldn't care less how Rice responded to it. I would say that it reveals or suggests something about the nature of their depravity and also why they committed murder. The act may stand alone in moral and a legal sense but not in a psychological sense. The ramp down from the unacceptable crime may tells us something about the ramp that led up to it. For instance, the situation I mentioned in post #53. One can imagine soldiers who recently had lost comrades to enemy action and were full of a desire for revenge that in some cases was not satisfied by the act of killing their antagonists alone. One can also imagine soldiers who felt up front that their antagonists were alien inferior beings who deserved not only to be killed but also ritually humiliated, and who felt that memorializing and sharing these acts of posthumous humiliation would bolster their self esteem. Meaningless differences? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Ok, they were yelling/cussing at each other, she spit on him and then he hit her and knocked her out. And then she woke up, wondered how he could do that to the mother of his baby and went on ahead and married him. What part of fundamentally co-dependently mutually dysfunctional is not jumping out here? What if Bobby/Whitney was NFL? Or Tyson/Givens? Or George/Tammy? Just sayin', all kinds of people be all kinds of crazy. Unless you're in the bedroom (or outside the door) long enough to really know...all you can know is what you get to see.. Me, I'd keep a safe distance from both of them, because ain't no happy ending to be had in any of that. Not "defending" either party, because hey. The dude punched out his woman and then cavemanned her out. Problem, Officer? Ultimately, you wanna play that game, as a couple or solo, do it where you got your own jurisdiction. That's not in the NFL, and for damn sure not in a hotel elevator., And wherever that is, let me be going as far away as possible in the other directions. Problem is, wherever you go, there that shit is. Crazy dudes and crazy chicks who think they're gonna not do what they do and then do it anyway. What are the odds of a dysfunctional need to act out not being accommodated by another dysfunctional need to accept the action? Sometimes, plenty of times, there's true victims. But often enough, there's just two crazy motherfuckers playing their own fucked up game. I lived across the street from one such couple as a kid. Three times they married, and but twice they divorced. But never, never, were they quiet. At some point...this is just how Bill & Patsy rolled. No sense in hoping that they would "change", because no, not gonna happen, and holding out that fantasy of "hope" in the face of incontrovertible reality just leads to the sickness that one gets when one stays in place while smelling a stench rather than moving as far upwind as possible. At some point... So yeah, fuck you Ray Rice, see you on your new reality show in 5 years or so. If this is really how y'all roll, both of you, that's the place for it. And if it's not how y'all roll, then go away, go far away, and figure out wtf happened and see to it that it never happens again, please. And to show us that you mean it, don't show us anything again, ever. Now - y'all ready for some football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Still completely disagree. I don't care if they cut their victims skin off and wore it around a la Ed Gein. All that shows is just how twisted and depraved they were. It has no bearing, none, on the fact that they committed murder. The act stands alone, in both a moral and a legal sense. I couldn't care less how Rice responded to it. I would say that it reveals or suggests something about the nature of their depravity and also why they committed murder. The act may stand alone in moral and a legal sense but not in a psychological sense. The ramp down from the unacceptable crime may tells us something about the ramp that led up to it. For instance, the situation I mentioned in post #53. One can imagine soldiers who recently had lost comrades to enemy action and were full of a desire for revenge that in some cases was not satisfied by the act of killing their antagonists alone. One can also imagine soldiers who felt up front that their antagonists were alien inferior beings who deserved not only to be killed but also ritually humiliated, and who felt that memorializing and sharing these acts of posthumous humiliation would bolster their self esteem. Meaningless differences? I don't think so. Right. In other words, a kinder, gentler murderer/rapist/domestic abuser is to be looked at in a different, perhaps more sympathetic light. I'm not sure why you keep reiterating that, yet at the same time demand that you're not saying that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Still completely disagree. I don't care if they cut their victims skin off and wore it around a la Ed Gein. All that shows is just how twisted and depraved they were. It has no bearing, none, on the fact that they committed murder. The act stands alone, in both a moral and a legal sense. I couldn't care less how Rice responded to it. I would say that it reveals or suggests something about the nature of their depravity and also why they committed murder. The act may stand alone in moral and a legal sense but not in a psychological sense. The ramp down from the unacceptable crime may tells us something about the ramp that led up to it. For instance, the situation I mentioned in post #53. One can imagine soldiers who recently had lost comrades to enemy action and were full of a desire for revenge that in some cases was not satisfied by the act of killing their antagonists alone. One can also imagine soldiers who felt up front that their antagonists were alien inferior beings who deserved not only to be killed but also ritually humiliated, and who felt that memorializing and sharing these acts of posthumous humiliation would bolster their self esteem. Meaningless differences? I don't think so. Right. In other words, a kinder, gentler murderer/rapist/domestic abuser is to be looked at in a different, perhaps more sympathetic light. I'm not sure why you keep reiterating that, yet at the same time demand that you're not saying that at all. Has nothing to do with kindler, gentler or looking at a particular "murder/rapist/domestic abuser in a different, perhaps more sympathetic light." Has to do instead with how and why particular criminals do what they do. Shifting the ground a bit to the geopolitical realm, in terms of their crimes against humanity, many would say (and I would agree) that Hitler and Stalin were both utterly horrific figures. But did they commit the acts they did in the same ways and within much the same historical, social, and geopolitical contexts and for the same reasons? Few historians would say so. And the differences, such as they are, are not in the least exculpatory. The need to defend/to punish etc. does not preclude the drive to understand (which again does not imply hand-holding but rather accuracy of insight into how and why). Indeed, a better understanding of how and why might lessen the dangers to humanity down the road. No need to reply BTW. We're clearly talking past each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Fine, Larry. Then clarify this for me. Let's say Rice slapped his girlfriend, she hit her head which knocked her out, then he dragged her out of the elevator and just stood there with no regard for her. Conversely, he punched her and knocked her out. Showed the same disregard for her in the elevator that we saw after he dragged her out of the elevator. How do you view those acts differently, and how would you have punished them differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I would not have punished these acts differently, But to my mind, given who Ray Rice is as an athlete, I think there is some difference (but again not a difference on any scale of guilt or punishment) between a slap from him and the consequences of her then hitting her head as a result of that slap and the punch we saw Rice deliver, which looked to me like a full-force blow that (again given who Rice is as an athlete and also given the nature of her size relative to his) that could have killed or gravely injured her right then and there. But again I don't see this only through the lens of punishment: I also see it in terms of how and why. And the blow we see in the video looks to me like a blow (again given Rice's athletic skills and build) that easily could have been deadly. How does that matter? Well, if one has a weapon that one has good reason to know could be deadly, using that weapon tells me something about who that person who used it is or might be and what he was thinking (or not thinking, as in not considering) when he used it -- something that is or might be different than if that person slapped someone who then as a result hit her head and was knocked unconscious. No, no difference in terms of punishment or guilt, but some difference in what I would call the motivation for/the ramp up to the awful act. Why does looking at such things amount to, as you feel, an attempt to excuse? Is there, for example, no good reason to attempt to understand and differentiate between (if differences there be on the level of psychology, motivation, etc.) ) the behavior of, say, John Hinckley Jr. and Dylan Klebold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 My final word on this, Larry. I knew an athlete of his size and strength could have killed her with one blow from the very beginning. I do not care about the how and why, nor any other motivating factors. I am only concerned with the act and consequence. The lobby video told me all I needed to know. The elevator video reduced us to voyeurs. It's violence porn, and I refuse to intellectualize it. So, I appreciate your elaboration, as always, but we will simply have to agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kart Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Garrett Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 One of the better pieces I've seen about this: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/columnists/solomon/article/Domestic-violence-a-bigger-issue-than-Goodell-5749376.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Nothing in pro sports surprises me anymore but A Peterson with child abuse charges Pics over on TMZ beyond just a whipping IMO WOW!! My grandma is in the Switch Beating HOF She tore up a lot of ass in her day It was worse if you brought in a weak switch and she had to got outside and get one! --------------- I hate the Cowgirls as much as the next nfl fan WTF is some stripper / ex stripper bringing up charges vs Jerry Jones 5 years later???? Girl you got your feelings hurt..... Memo to Jerry stop getting your pics taken with strippers or hookers.... Still hang and bang but NO pics Edited September 13, 2014 by Soulstation1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Redskins pasting the Jaguars. RG3 hurt, on a mysterious ankle injury where no one touched him. We got a QB controversy here, with Cousins looking great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Watch the replay. He didn't need to be touched. He came down on it in a terribly awkward way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Only team/game that matters Browns win vs Saints..... I didn't think NO would be the 0-2 team Can anyone name Tennessee's starting RB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Watch the replay. He didn't need to be touched. He came down on it in a terribly awkward way. Believe me, it was shown many times here in DC. Just bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Tim Tebow might be last man standing at the end of this NFL season....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Wood Posted September 21, 2014 Report Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) What a tough, nasty, physical game in Eagles vs Redskins. I thought Washington had a chance, but there was some bad play calling and a missed FG that prevented overtime. Well played by Foles and Philly. Edited September 21, 2014 by Stefan Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 What a tough, nasty, physical game in Eagles vs Redskins. I thought Washington had a chance, but there was some bad play calling and a missed FG that prevented overtime. Well played by Foles and Philly. Didn't think that the refs could be worst than last year, but I was wrong on that count. The games are becoming unwatchable with all the flags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) What a tough, nasty, physical game in Eagles vs Redskins. I thought Washington had a chance, but there was some bad play calling and a missed FG that prevented overtime. Well played by Foles and Philly. Didn't think that the refs could be worst than last year, but I was wrong on that count. The games are becoming unwatchable with all the flags. In the 36+ years I've followed the game, it would have never occurred to me that I might one day be defending the refs. But, their job is likely the least desirable officiating job in professional sports. The NFL rules are as fluid as any in all sports, and at all levels. And they have to constantly attempt to interpret and enforce them. May as well be trying to hold water in their hands. Not giving them a complete pass, mind you. Just trying to empathize with them considering how increasingly difficult that fucking idiot Goodell and his band of merry sycophants make their jobs. Edited September 22, 2014 by Scott Dolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 What a tough, nasty, physical game in Eagles vs Redskins. I thought Washington had a chance, but there was some bad play calling and a missed FG that prevented overtime. Well played by Foles and Philly. Didn't think that the refs could be worst than last year, but I was wrong on that count. The games are becoming unwatchable with all the flags. In the 36+ years I've followed the game, it would have never occurred to me that I might one day be defending the refs. But, their job is likely the least desirable officiating job in professional sports. The NFL rules are as fluid as any in all sports, and at all levels. And they have to constantly attempt to interpret and enforce them. May as well be trying to hold water in their hands. Not giving them a complete pass, mind you. Just trying to empathize with them considering how increasingly difficult that fucking idiot Goodell and his band of merry sycophants make their jobs. Yeah, I agree, there are so many "directives" from the league office, that they no longer ref the game, but also have to interpret dangerous hits, insulting language, etc. They're put in a can't win situation, I still can't figure out why there is a need for a penalty for "insulting language," geesh, I imagine that can be called on every play. The 49ers are still bitching about that call on Kapernick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dolan Posted September 22, 2014 Report Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) Hurt feelings is a personal foul, Matthew. Perhaps you never received that memo. Isn't it just pathetic what Goodell has turned this league into? And BTW, when you say the games have become unwatchable due to the penalties, I actually couldn't agree more. Remember the uproar over the flags in the preseason? Goodell sent one of his lackeys out to calm the fears. Welp. Here we are. Same bullshit, different season... Edited September 22, 2014 by Scott Dolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulstation1 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2014 The Rob Bironas story is kinda weird/strange.. Drugs/Alcohol must have played a part Maybe mental health?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.