Name some Prestige CDs you find underrated

[GA Russell]

I am under the impression that Herbie Mann's/Bobby Jaspar's two albums Flute Souffle and Flute Flight were more popular as CDs than as LPs.

[JSngry]

"Underrated", hardly, but overlooked...the two Bayete albums, which form an interesting "fuller picture" of the whole Bobby Hutcherson Head On/Hadley Caliman Iapetus thing...and for an appearance by Fred Berry on Seeking Other Worlds.

[gmonahan]

Sigh. This thread promises to be great for my ears, not so good for my bank account!

gregmo

[soulpope]

Not on Cd (to my knowledge), but PRESTIGE...

[Scott Dolan]

I find it hard to believe that anything from Hawk or Taylor is "underrated".

Maybe a better term here, in some cases, would be "not that well known." For instance, Hawkins' excellent "On Broadway," which combines three Prestige LPs:

http://www.amazon.com/Broadway-Coleman-Hawkins/dp/B000000ZFO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1409885535&sr=1-1&keywords=coleman+Hawkins+%22On+Broadway

Yes, that sounds like the better way to describe them.

[king ubu]

Not on Cd (to my knowledge), but PRESTIGE...

it's on this twofer (one tune or two of one of the albums might be missing):

http://www.allmusic.com/album/trust-in-me-mw0000012925

Lots of albums mentioned here that I'd not have expected to be underrated, but what do I know ... but then yeah, George Braith, Taft Jordan, Freddie Webster ... the Prestige vaults are heavy! Lots of love for Dickerson and Jack McDuff here ... but McDuff, Willis Jackson - underrated? Today maybe, but back in their days? Not sure if Rusty Bryant is a similar case ... (re: Houston Person, I still don't quite "get" him ... it took me a while to wrap my mind around players like Fathead or Don Wilkerson, but I guess I'm still not quite ready for Person)

Oh, and Clifford, go get that Hal Singer! Perfect candidate for this thread! Wonderful album indeed!

Edited September 5, 2014 by king ubu

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Not on Cd (to my knowledge), but PRESTIGE...

It was. It was included in this one

which his a twofer of 'Chocomotive' and its follow-up, 'Trust in me'. But one cut from 'Chocomotive' - 'Girl talk' was cut to fit the two LPs onto one CD. In my view, Fantasy would have done better to have linked 'Trust in me' with its follow up, 'Blue oddysey', which would have fitted, and put 'Chocomotive' out as an OJC. But there we are.

Of those three albums, personally I rate 'Blue oddysey' the highest, even though it has Curtis Fuller on it - because it also has Pepper Adams in there.

MG

[king ubu]

I buy an album for Fuller, but rarely for Person ... different strokes.

And I guess Fuller's Prestige albums would fit here.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Yeah, so do most people

Personally, I find Fuller's sound completely characterless - no vibrato, no colour, just like J J Johnson's, in fact.

Let me have trombonists about me that are fat with big brash sounds full of personal quirks like Bennie Green, Kid Ory, J C Higginbotham, Fred Wesley, Lawrence Brown, Wayne Henderson, Harold Betters and the uncredited man who did a solo on the original version of 'Don't answer the door' by Jimmy Johnson.

I don't like those smooth guys who tone down their sounds so they can play fast.

MG

[king ubu]

I guess I like all kinds o'bones

Another one:

[paul secor]

Yeah, so do most people

Personally, I find Fuller's sound completely characterless - no vibrato, no colour, just like J J Johnson's, in fact.

Let me have trombonists about me that are fat with big brash sounds full of personal quirks like Bennie Green, Kid Ory, J C Higginbotham, Fred Wesley, Lawrence Brown, Wayne Henderson, Harold Betters and the uncredited man who did a solo on the original version of 'Don't answer the door' by Jimmy Johnson.

I don't like those smooth guys who tone down their sounds so they can play fast.

MG

Curtis Fuller recorded some great ballads.

[king ubu]

well, as for Bennie Green, he made some fine rekkids for Prestige too and you don't see them mentioned all that often:

I'm generally pretty fond of two-brass quintets ... and love the cover of the one w/Art Farmer! You get Addison Farmer on bass, too - how's that for underrated!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

well, as for Bennie Green, he made some fine rekkids for Prestige too and you don't see them mentioned all that often:

I'm generally pretty fond of two-brass quintets ... and love the cover of the one w/Art Farmer! You get Addison Farmer on bass, too - how's that for underrated!

Those are all REALLY nice albums. My favourite is 'Walking down', because Eric Dixon's tenor playing is so strongly snaky. But are they underrated? Well, how would I know? I LURVE Bennie.

MG

Yeah, so do most people

Personally, I find Fuller's sound completely characterless - no vibrato, no colour, just like J J Johnson's, in fact.

Let me have trombonists about me that are fat with big brash sounds full of personal quirks like Bennie Green, Kid Ory, J C Higginbotham, Fred Wesley, Lawrence Brown, Wayne Henderson, Harold Betters and the uncredited man who did a solo on the original version of 'Don't answer the door' by Jimmy Johnson.

I don't like those smooth guys who tone down their sounds so they can play fast.

MG

Curtis Fuller recorded some great ballads.

Sure you're right, but the point about adopting vibrato-less tone (not just trombonists, of course) was to achieve greater facility to negotiate fast bop changes, wasn't it?

MG

[king ubu]

well, as for Bennie Green, he made some fine rekkids for Prestige too and you don't see them mentioned all that often:

I'm generally pretty fond of two-brass quintets ... and love the cover of the one w/Art Farmer! You get Addison Farmer on bass, too - how's that for underrated!

Those are all REALLY nice albums. My favourite is 'Walking down', because Eric Dixon's tenor playing is so strongly snaky. But are they underrated? Well, how would I know? I LURVE Bennie.

MG

Well, how would I know how to define "underrated" in the context of this very thread?

These are good albums, I love Bennie too (and many of those other big-toned, rough'n'tumble trombone players you listed as well!), and you don't see them (or Bennie) mentioned all that often ... so I guess yeah, they might indeed be underrated.

[Scott Dolan]

Sigh. This thread promises to be great for my ears, not so good for my bank account!

gregmo

Preach it, brother!

I basically only experienced J.J and Kai as leaders, yet love the trombone. I had heard of Brookmeyer, but I'm not sure I've ever heard him play.

So my bank account will be joining yours, in flames...

[king ubu]

Well, on "Dual" you get him in both his "roles": trombone and piano. The Mosaic Select (OOP of course) collected some of his finest. His hip-revisionist "Traditionalism Revisited" is a wonderful album. You also get to hear him with Gerry Mulligan (quartet, sextet, Concert Jazz Band) and he was a key contributor to the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra ... and he also made a two-piano album with Bill Evans (which Blue Note/EMI has dutifully neglected, I still don't properly own it, all there currently is is some Spanish crap edition, I think) - a terrific musician!

[soulpope]

Not on Cd (to my knowledge), but PRESTIGE...

It was. It was included in this one

which his a twofer of 'Chocomotive' and its follow-up, 'Trust in me'. But one cut from 'Chocomotive' - 'Girl talk' was cut to fit the two LPs onto one CD. In my view, Fantasy would have done better to have linked 'Trust in me' with its follow up, 'Blue oddysey', which would have fitted, and put 'Chocomotive' out as an OJC. But there we are.

Of those three albums, personally I rate 'Blue oddysey' the highest, even though it has Curtis Fuller on it - because it also has Pepper Adams in there.

MG

Ok thnx - actualy I was suprised (= the intention of my previous statement) that this saw neither release as OJC nor as part of a japanese Reissue Series with original cover art, liner notes etc.......

Edited September 5, 2014 by soulpope

[king ubu]

Well, really, if LPs get reissued in CD format, if they re-use the original cover or not does only make a big diff'rence to anally-retentive folks, since it's not "original" anymore anyways ... but original liner notes were often re-printed in those Prestige twofers (though if they reproduced 70s vinly twofers you might get those notes - or both sets of notes) and the original covers were mostly there in stamp size, too ... and you guys ignored my post it seems, not that it really matters, of course.

[soulpope]

Well, really, if LPs get reissued in CD format, if they re-use the original cover or not does only make a big diff'rence to anally-retentive folks, since it's not "original" anymore anyways ... but original liner notes were often re-printed in those Prestige twofers (though if they reproduced 70s vinly twofers you might get those notes - or both sets of notes) and the original covers were mostly there in stamp size, too ... and you guys ignored my post it seems, not that it really matters, of course.

dear friend,

seemingly I should not post if being too tired.......nevertheless as for today

i`ve read your post and appreciated

i am a dedicated fan of original cover art (and in subject case me believe it`s not worth the discussson whether the new cover was an improvement) but here - even worse - a title was cut due to time constraint......so wonder whether this alltogether qualifies to make me anally-retentive

i believe much obscurer titles made it to OJC or OJC Limited edition level, so I was simply wondering btw questioning the choices , but it`s a free country and/or global world.....

Edited September 5, 2014 by soulpope

[king ubu]

Certainly often those Prestige CD twofers had ugly covers ... but then the point is that an LP cover shrinked to CD size is never ever "original", it's just never the same and I will never get that fake pretension lying underneath the transposition of one format onto another - it just doesn't work. The "original album concept" for CD reissues of albusm originally on vinyl is bonkers (and I'm mostly a CD person, as you know), it's not taking the "original" its dignity if bonus tracks get added or cover art gets adapted ... reissue is never original.

And as for "ignoring", all I meant is I mentioned that twofer a few minutes before MG did.

Edited September 5, 2014 by king ubu

[JSngry]

Can we count this as a "Prestige"? If so...

Not at all for the fidelity-finicky, but...the REAL Dizzy Gillespie big band, not the one constrained by studio limitations.

Big Nick stretching out on "Ooh-Pop-A-Dah" and climbing over that insanely swinging brass riff (which any Sonny Clark fan will immediately appreciate) is worth the cost of admission alone, and that's just the first cut.

You can find it on CD still, I think, but then you don't get Dan Morgenstern's exquisite liner notes. Plus, the CD version I have doesn't have the pop of this LP. Noise reduction, perhaps? The way Benny Bailey's playing lead, you don't want to lose any pop.

What the hell, Prestige released it, so Prestige it is!

[JSngry]

Sorry, just now realized that the thread is referencing Prestige "CDs". My bad.

[Larry Kart]

Can we count this as a "Prestige"? If so...

Not at all for the fidelity-finicky, but...the REAL Dizzy Gillespie big band, not the one constrained by studio limitations.

Big Nick stretching out on "Ooh-Pop-A-Dah" and climbing over that insanely swinging brass riff (which any Sonny Clark fan will immediately appreciate) is worth the cost of admission alone, and that's just the first cut.

You can find it on CD still, I think, but then you don't get Dan Morgenstern's exquisite liner notes. Plus, the CD version I have doesn't have the pop of this LP. Noise reduction, perhaps? The way Benny Bailey's playing lead, you don't want to lose any pop.

What the hell, Prestige released it, so Prestige it is!

Right up there with this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Dizzy-Gillespie-And-Band-Live/dp/B000001OTH

[mjzee]

Sorry, just now realized that the thread is referencing Prestige "CDs". My bad.

I started this thread, and I hereby grant permission to recommend Prestige dates never released on CD. Carry on.

[Peter Friedman]

Many of those I would select have already been mentioned. There are an awful lot of Prestige records I like a lot that have rarely been given much recognition. Here are at least some of them.

Barry Harris Trio - Magnificent

Barry Harris Sextet - Bulls Eye

Barry Harris Sextet - Luminescence

Art Farmer - When Farmer Met Gryce

Art Farmer - Farmer's Market

Chet Baker - his 3 Prestige Sessions CD's - Lonely Star, On A Misty Night, Stairway To The Stars

Stan Getz - Prezervation

Illinois Jacquet - Bottoms Up

Illinois Jacquet - The Blues That's Me

Carmel Jones - Jay Hawk Talk

Budd Johnson - Let's Swing

Lee Konitz

Jackie McLean - Lights Out

Jackie McLean / Bill Hardman - Jackie's Pal

Elmo Hope - Hope Meets Foster

Charles McPherson - Bebop Revisited

Charles McPherson - Con Alma

Charles McPherson - Live At The Five Spot

Charles McPherson - McPherson's Mood

Hank Mobley - Messages

Sonny Stitt / Bud Powell / JJ Johnson

Art Taylor - Taylor's Wailers

Art Taylor - Taylor's Tenors

Bobby Timmons - The Soul Man

Cedar Walton Trio, Quartet, Quintet - Cedar

Jimmy Raney - A

Phil Woods Septet - Pairing Off

Art Farmer - Early Art

Benny Golson - Gettin' With It

Roy Haynes / Phineas Newborn / Paul Chambers - We Three

Yusef Lateef - Into Something

The Dual Role Of Bob Brookmeyer

Kenny Burrell

Gene Ammons - The Happy Blues

George Wallington - The New York Scene

Lem Winchester & Benny Golson - Winchester Special

Coleman Hawkins - Night Hawk

Coleman Hawkins - On Broadway

Coleman Hawkins - Hawk Eyes

Coleman Hawkins - Soul

Paul Quinchette - For Basie

Joe Newman with Frank Foster - Good 'N' ' Groovy

Ray Bryant Trio

Milt Jackson Quartet with Horace Silver

Kenny Dorham Quartet - Quiet Kenny

Phil Woods / Donald Byrd - The Young Bloods

Tommy Flanagan Trio - Overseas