Is streaming technology saving the music industry?

[JSngry]

One Taylor Swift Tweet reaches a bajillion times more people before they get out of bed than will see one billboard in a week, and with more information.

And that's just one Tweet. Nobody does just one Tweet.

At some point, I could see Taylor Swift becoming to the music industry what Mary Pickford and her cohorts became to the film industry, a brave surge of independence that make a new day and a new way and eventually becomes pretty much the same thing it declared independence from. That's just the way things go.

[Scott Dolan]

Other than fucking up otherwise beautiful views, I've never seen the sense in billboards to begin with.

[Shawn]

The purpose of a billboard is not to reach millions of people, it's to reach people in the local market. Different tier of same marketing strategy.

[JSngry]

I get that part of it, but it seems to me to be Stone Age, because even that "local market" is plugged into all the social media tools, which are faster and more efficient to accomplish the same point, unless some Stonehenge/2001-esque monolith thing still holds an appeal for a selected audience. But yeah, really stone age. There was a time when it was cool, all these billboards creating buzz, it really was a part of the culture, becuase you did not have the instantaneousness of information dissemination that you do now. Now, they're really trailing edge. Unless a release is following some retro marketing strategy, it's quite possible to have the release info'ed, previewed, pirated/"pirated" and already circulated to some degree before a billboard gets viewed by, say, 5000 people.

[Scott Dolan]

Not to mention it's harder to get people to look up these days.

[Shawn]

Billboards were designed to be viewed by people stuck in traffic, last time I checked that still happens on a daily basis in every major metropolitan area in the country.

[JSngry]

Ok, then. Instead of discussing whether or not steaming is killing the music industry, let's discuss how billboards are saving it!

[Scott Dolan]

They might be stuck in traffic, Shawn, but they ain't looking at billboards. They're busy tweeting their current fate and checking their Facebook page.

[David Ayers]

Or posting on their bloody stupid bulletin boards.

[Ligeti]

I'm happily stone age. I don't have a Facebook account. I don't have a twitter account. I don't subscribe to anyone else's twitter accounts. I don't watch broadcast TV. I don't listen to music on the radio. I don't have a smartphone. Yet somehow I have thousands of CD's, and a wish list at Amazon that I blew up (turns out there's a maximum size of 2500 items, who knew?) Honestly, opting out of all that nonsense is not difficult at all, you've just got to want to do it. Oh, and I work - and have always worked - in IT. I'm not a luddite when it comes to new technology - but I find most of it is just noise.

[Scott Dolan]

Well, now. You are obviously a cutting edge rebel who is simply above the rest of us.

[mjzee]

Since this thread is titled "Is streaming technology saving the music industry?", I think it's important to quote this article in full:

The war of words continues between music streaming service Spotify and powerful pop icon Taylor Swift. After Swift removed her entire catalog from the streaming service last week, Spotify boss Daniel Ek said that she, along with other mainstream artists, was on track to earn over $6 million in royalties this year. But Scott Borchetta, CEO of Swift's label Big Machine, has countered that claim, saying that the "Shake It Off" singer had earned less than $500,000 from Spotify streams in the US in the last 12 months.

A Spotify spokesperson told Time that Swift had been paid a total of $2 million over the last 12 months for the global streaming of her songs, but Borchetta still maintains that Spotify is a blight on the music industry. "The facts show that the music industry was much better off before Spotify hit these shores," he said, clarifying the amount Spotify paid out over the last year as "the equivalent of less than 50,000 albums sold." According to Borchetta, Swift earns more from her videos on Vevo than she did from having her music on Spotify.

Of course, half a million dollars in a vacuum is an impressive figure, but Swift is phenomenally successful in terms of sales, and one of a few remaining mega pop stars. Her most recent album, 1989, became the first this year to sell more than a million copies in a week — a feat only equaled by 18 albums in history. Unlike most, Taylor Swift can make millions off the back of traditional album sales, but by keeping her music away from Spotify even as it begs for her to come back, she and Borchetta say they're trying to make the larger point that the service doesn't pay its artists a reasonable fee. "[Taylor Swift] is the most successful artist in music today," Borchetta says. "What about the rest of the artists out there struggling to make a career?"

[Ligeti]

Well, now. You are obviously a cutting edge rebel who is simply above the rest of us.

Absolutely not, I'm most definately below you. Way below. My point is simply that I've made a conscious decision to not follow certain paths and trends. It's easy to get sucked into trends without ever making a truly conscious decision to do so.

Still, I don't see this as an argument about superiority of one view over another. If we talk about music - I have thousands of discs. This week so far I've received 6 new ones I've bought, and I'm waiting on another 2. So my question is - how do you guys find time to listen to the music you buy, and to listen to music on a streaming service? I don't have enough time to digest everything as I'd like to - if I add a streaming service it would make the window even smaller.

To be clear - I was a paid subscriber of Spotify for a month. I found it changed how I digested music. With a entire catalog to pull from, I became less discerning. Anything and everything was a least worth a partial listen. After a month I had a list of things to hear some 60 albums deep. In the mean time I was still buying physical media, but didn't have the time to enjoy it.

Easy solution - I don't need Spotify, so I cancelled.

That's all I'm saying. I'm most definately not superior to others - quite the opposite. For me it's just that I love music, I have a addiction to it. So, offered an endless stream - I consume it ravenously. In the end I found this detrimental to my overall appreciation - so I bailed out. I'm no better, perhaps just different.

[Scott Dolan]

I don't use a streaming service. I've used the free Spotify app to preview albums I was interested in, but even that has happened less than 8-10 times.

Furthermore, I never buy 6 albums at a time. I buy one, and listen to it over and over until I'm satisfied. I like to thoroughly "consume" albums, rather than listen to one and immediately move on to another. Which it sounds as though that is exactly what you're doing.

And how that is different than using a streaming service is beyond me.

[Big Beat Steve]

Furthermore, I never buy 6 albums at a time. I buy one, and listen to it over and over until I'm satisfied. I like to thoroughly "consume" albums, rather than listen to one and immediately move on to another. Which it sounds as though that is exactly what you're doing.

And how that is different than using a streaming service is beyond me.

Who says you immediately have to move from one to the next just because you bought several in one go? What would be keeping you from buying a load at one time (if only to take advantage of shipping all in one go or of special offers available for a limited time only? There may be a dozen reasons to group purchases) and yet listening to them one after another, keeping the "next ones" on hold until you've really digested the one before?

From what I've witnessed with others who do streaming I can fully understand what Ligeti says about becoming less discerning and finding almost anything worth a partial listen. Listen in here, listen in there, and out the window goes the tune after some consumptive listening ... on to the next ... it happens too easily if you are flooded with items and don't even have to make an effort to select.

About all this being detrimental to one's overall appreciation, maybe streaming is the final step in everything in music being at your fingertips indiscriminately. It a way it is the "culmination" of an evolution that in some pensive moment I've been wondering about every now and then ever since CD reissue (and issue) programs have mushroomed to the extent they have now:

It is nice and convenient for music lovers and collectors to be able to access their wishes much more easily but do we really get that deeply into the music anymore? As deeply as, say, in the 60s when you were oh so happy to find a reissue LP of your favorite artist with 16 tunes that had been unavailable for years and years, with everything else by that artist being OOP, or one import LP of a contemporary artist out of 5 or 6 LPs he had already out? I believe those LPs were "ingested" with much more intensity (because they were all there was to the avid listener) than later "complete works" series that you can buy at the click of a button somewhere and hop from one to aniother at will when listening ... And now streaming has taken this accessibility to yet another level and you might take much too much for granted and lose your ability (or willingness??) to discern?.

[Scott Dolan]

I'd say if he's averaging that 6-8 albums a week (which is how he's making it sound), and he works a full-time job, he can'e be spending a substantial amount of time on one album before having to move on to the next. Unless he just has hundreds of unopened/unplayed discs laying around. And again, I would question the overall point. Though, perhaps if he's single and does nothing but listen to music while not at work...

I work full-time, and have a wife and son. My time has to be divided, and outside of the car on the way to and from work, I may not listen to anything for several days at a time unless it's simply playing in the background while we're doing something else (which is actually the case almost nightly in our house). But that's no way to truly consume music, IMO, especially considering how much we talk to each other.

[Ligeti]

I'd say if he's averaging that 6-8 albums a week (which is how he's making it sound), and he works a full-time job, he can'e be spending a substantial amount of time on one album before having to move on to the next. Unless he just has hundreds of unopened/unplayed discs laying around. And again, I would question the overall point. Though, perhaps if he's single and does nothing but listen to music while not at work...

I work full-time, and have a wife and son. My time has to be divided, and outside of the car on the way to and from work, I may not listen to anything for several days at a time unless it's simply playing in the background while we're doing something else (which is actually the case almost nightly in our house). But that's no way to truly consume music, IMO, especially considering how much we talk to each other.

Wow, I'm not a person who posts on here often, so I have no idea if you're so judgmental about all things, or if you have just chosen me and this particular topic. Your opinion is one to which you're entitled, but it's based on almost too many assumptions to mention.

Every CD I buy is a purposelessly chosen collection of music. It's not some random choice where I don't know if I like it or not. 6 CD's this week are titles I wanted to own and enjoy for as long as I'm on the planet. The CD's are part of my musical journey and are the results of my own judgment about whether I want to invest time and money in them. I shouldn't need to explain why this isn't at all like streaming.

I also find it bizarre that you would be trying to put me down because I buy too much music. How is my buying CD's in any way like streaming? What's your point - that I buy too much?

You then go off on some ridiculous tangent about your work and home life, with more judgments about the way people should listen. Why can't you see that your own way of listening may not suit others? I'm just happy people listen to music (I listen through my Linn, and often through my Shure SRH940's.) I think it's fair to say I've been willing to spend my money in maximizing my appreciation of music, I certainly don't need you to tell me that what I choose to do is "no way to truly consume music". Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about. But then, your entire rant on this topic is pretty poor form all around - again, I'm doing something wrong by buying too much?!? WTF.

So how about you roll up your guesswork and stop trying to lecture me about how much music I pay for, and offer feeble conjecture on how I listen. You know nothing about my personal circumstances at all, why do you feel qualified to offer guesses?

I have been very open about how I spend my time. Do you ever watch television or listen to the radio? As I've said, I don't. Ever. That's time I can invest in whatever I choose. No facebook, no twitter, that's more time for me to do what i choose. No smartphone, so no constantly checking SMS and instant messenger nonsense - more time. We tend to sculpt our lives around the things of most value to us. I rank music way up my list. Not as high as the wife, but she's a music lover too. She has no need of a TV or radio either.

But again, since when did anyone need an excuse to buy music? If I like something, or want to experience it, I buy it. Simple. I listen in great surroundings - such as my living room - and in non-optimal such as on the train. Music isn't anchored into one spot anymore, it has legs. While the venue can indeed be important, the primary importance is the LISTENING. Listening on a train is nothing to apologize for - better that than some ridiculous reality show on a tablet.

Regardless - there was no need for the tone of your messages, you sound a little frustrated to me. Maybe you could get a second job so you can buy more for yourself.

[GA Russell]

Yet somehow I have thousands of CD's, and a wish list at Amazon that I blew up (turns out there's a maximum size of 2500 items, who knew?)

That's news to me! I thought that my wishlist was long, but now I see that it is "only" 1,266 items.

[sonnyhill]

I had a Spotify subscription and got rid of it. In my opinion, Spotify is leveraging the hard work and sacrifice of thousands of artists to make very few people very rich. To me, it seems like its monetizing piracy -- $0.006 per play is abysmal. I feel it is unethical. Unfortunately, more artists do not vigorously defend their intellectual property rights. I do not understand why record labels and artists allow strangers to post entire newly released albums on You Tube.

If Spotify's head honcho Mr. Ek is so interested in compensating artists, he and his investors should distribute the IPO money that he is positioning himself and his investors for to the artists. He should also take as salary the median income of the artists whose music is offered on his service.

[Scott Dolan]

Ligeti, who is lecturing anyone here?

I'm glad you have taken on this musical journey, and I hope you gain nothing but pleasure from it. And I wasn't attempting to put you down.

Just wondered how buying the amount of music you do is somehow different than streaming? Mostly concerning the intellectual consumption of it.

Grow some thicker skin, son.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Shawn]

If anything Spotify (and Youtube, etc) has made me more discerning than I was before. It used to be I'd hear a song or listen to an online sample and would think "wow, that's sounds great, I think I'll order it". Then I'd get the album and realize that it wasn't as great as I initially thought and that I probably wouldn't listen to it very often. There goes $12 out the window.

Now I listen to EVERY album prior to purchasing. In the end I purchase less albums than I used to, but I'm almost always satisfied with those purchases.

[Ligeti]

Ligeti, who is lecturing anyone here?

I'm glad you have taken on this musical journey, and I hope you gain nothing but pleasure from it. And I wasn't attempting to put you down.

Just wondered how buying the amount of music you do is somehow different than streaming? Mostly concerning the intellectual consumption of it.

Grow some thicker skin, son.

Grow thicker skin? How about you being more courteous. Your stated intent was not evident in the post I replied too.

The thing is, what streaming is to me might be different for others. Shawn is an example of someone who handles it better (for him) than I was able to make it work for me.

My music process goes something like this. I like artist A because I've heard them before. I will buy the discography of that artist. I will seek out albums person A plays on, because it is likely I will enjoy it. Let's say I find an album that looks promising. I will take a look at who is on the album. If I know them, then it might be something I just buy. If not I will go to Amazon and read the reviews (if there are any, sometimes there's not). I take all the reviews on advisement. Meaning I don't let the reviews put me off, different people like different things, after all. If I read some things I like the sound of - and the price is right - I may order it. If in doubt it's time to hop over to Youtube. I often find complete tracks on Youtube, and I sample it there. If not it's time for a Goggle search for the album - I usually find at least some kind of sample. If I like, I buy. If I like and don't have the funds right now - I add it to my wish list at Amazon.

As it is - and this is just me, I understand - it is rare that i buy a CD that has no value to me. I don't have the experience Shawn mentions very often. It does sometimes happen that I get albums that I enjoy, but don't have legs. An example would be Floratone, a Frissell album. I liked the samples, and I liked the album on first spin. Subsequent spins gradfually drained the fascination for me. In the end I was simply bored of the music. It happens. I file it away. The thing is, I might find myself in a Frisell phase at some time in the future, and I'll be glad I've got the disc to try again.

That's it for me. I buy much experimental music, It can be very dense at times, and conversely sometimes it's the exact opposite, and it very slight. It can take some time to extract pleasure from some of it. I enjoy the challenge, the adventure. An example would be the SHOCK series of discs from Cage's tour of Japan. Or the huge box set of David Tudor's electronic works. it's very abstract music, and at times it's missing its visual components (he wrote and performed much with Merce Cunningham's dance troupe). But it's fun to come to terms with it. At least for me.

As for streaming..... I found it broke my method. I'm not saying it will affect everyone that way, but it did for me. I became less discerning. I'd listen to just about anything. It was all there. It was simple enough to download entire albums as MP3 files - but I only listen to them on the train. For me, my limited resources rein in over-indulgance. When i'm out of cash, I'm out of the market. When streaming the window never closed, and I felt a little lost. Call it self-control f you want.

Now, reading this thread has actually led me to go back to Spotify. I reinstalled it last night, and went with the free model. A simple Google search led me to free tools to avoid hearing the ads (the ads are still served, but they're muted). I MIGHT use it periodically - but again, I found it a problem so will likely rarely go to it.

Hey, I guess like every one here, I'm a music lover. There's worse things. And now I've given up alcohol I've even more to spend on my favorite hobby.

Yet somehow I have thousands of CD's, and a wish list at Amazon that I blew up (turns out there's a maximum size of 2500 items, who knew?)

That's news to me! I thought that my wishlist was long, but now I see that it is "only" 1,266 items.

My wife would prefer I had your wish list.

But yes, when you hit 2500 items you get a message that says there is a problem adding it to your wish list. The messages isn't clear, but what it really means is - you've reached the maximum number of items. You have to either delete some things, or create a new wish list.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Ligeti

[Scott Dolan]

How about you being more courteous.

Absolutely hilarious coming from the person who previously stated: "...you sound a little frustrated to me. Maybe you could get a second job so you can buy more for yourself."

Got hypocrisy?

I have plenty of money, and I buy all of the music I want.

My current wish list is 0. Yours is 2500.

Who needs that second job more?

And my stated intent? That was made perfectly clear in post #189.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Big Beat Steve]

Your "stated" intent is and remains ridiculous the way you put down others for allegedly buying too much music (that IS what you do - re-read your post).

And who are you to judge if those others are able to digest the music thoroughly enough before moving on to the next one? As if your way of listening was the only one.

Besides, nobody put you down for taking in the music the way you do. It just is that preferences differ widely, and why not say so in an open discussion?

Like it or not, but it was rather pointless focusing that way on Ligeti. He stated his opinion, that's all. BTW, thin skins are were there are those who feel they by all means need to defend their own modus operandi (like with that initial "cutting edge rebel" retort that comes acorss very much as an underhanded put-down, just because there is somebody who states his opinion that these Spotify gadgets are just "Emperor's clothes" to hin - understandably so IMHO)

Edited November 14, 2014 by Big Beat Steve

[Scott Dolan]

Your "stated" intent is and remains ridiculous the way you put down others for allegedly buying too much music (that IS what you do - re-read your post).

And who are you to judge if those others are able to digest the music thoroughly enough before moving on to the next one? As if your way of listening was the only one.

Besides, nobody put you down for taking in the music the way you do. It just is that preferences differ widely, and why not say so in an open discussion?

Like it or not, but it was rather pointless focusing that way on Ligeti. He stated his opinion, that's all. BTW, thin skins are were there are those who feel they by all means need to defend their own modus operandi (like with that initial "cutting edge rebel" retort that comes acorss very much as an underhanded put-down, just because there is somebody who states his opinion that these Spotify gadgets are just "Emperor's clothes" to hin - understandably so IMHO)

What...in the fuck...are you talking about...

Ligeti stated, "To be clear - I was a paid subscriber of Spotify for a month. I found it changed how I digested music. With a entire catalog to pull from, I became less discerning."

And then later: "If we talk about music - I have thousands of discs. This week so far I've received 6 new ones I've bought, and I'm waiting on another 2. So my question is - how do you guys find time to listen to the music you buy, and to listen to music on a streaming service?"

Now, unless I was reading his first comment incorrectly, he was essentially bemoaning the fact that Spotify/streaming services has essentially turned music into a fast food of sorts. On that, we actually agree. Which is why I have no use for it myself. But, the second comment had him receiving 8 albums this week, and that strikes me as no less fast food than streaming.

So, I responded by wondering: "And how that is different than using a streaming service is beyond me."

Why do I keep putting everyone down for their music buying habits with such blatant ad hominem outbursts?! Noting that I simply don't see a difference in those two things!

Honestly, Steve. THAT'S putting someone down?!

Oh, and one last thing, the whole "cutting edge rebel" remark was in response to his I don't do Facebook/Twitter/television/radio/smartphones blather. Because what he was doing was patting himself on the back for eschewing all the evil things in this society that the rest of us unintelligent schlubs are too weak to resist. Thereby propping himself up as a superior being of sorts.

And in case you don't believe that was his intent, he went ahead and confirmed it for you in his following post where he said:

"It's easy to get sucked into trends without ever making a truly conscious decision to do so."

Edited November 14, 2014 by Scott Dolan