Is streaming technology saving the music industry?

[Scott Dolan]

Ligeti, you haven't got your facts right.

But he's going to continue to blindly barrel along anyway while blaming everyone else for their entrenched views and pointing a finger of blame and shame at those evil "MP3's" iTunes make you download! .

Having been a Wind'ohs user for over a decade, I switched to Apple simply because the shit they make does one thing, and does it well: they work. And having come from the Microsoft world, I find the purveyors of the "Apple as religion" mythology just as hilarious and misinformed as they find the elusive religious fanatics of the Apple world.

As Clunky correctly mentioned earlier, no, you don't have to use iTunes. And no, you don't have to download anything if you don't want to. And even if you choose to download digital files, they can come from anywhere, and can be placed into any music program you wish to use.

I also find it highly disingenuous when somebody claims to avoid a company for ethical reasons, yet continually blasts their products and their users. If you choose not to use the wares of a company because you find them to be unethical, then you have NO idea what their wares are capable of. You just base any and all rantings on myths and half-truths you've heard from others.

It's be like me railing against Microsoft because I feel they're unethical, but then ranting and carrying on about how shitty Windows 7/8 is, or how shitty the Windows Media player is because it won't convert ALAC to FLAC, and that people who use Windows are gullible because there are better alternatives and that they only buy it because that's all that they offer on the PC's in the big box stores, etc...

Edited November 17, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[.:.impossible]

The real myth is that the two operating systems are vastly different. From the daily user's perspective, they are not. Highlighting features and benefits of either is just marketing.

Software applications cross platforms almost seemlessly at this stage.

Regardless, a consumer is not required to have a rational reason for choosing one product or service over another.

As for the streaming discussion, I don't have a strong opinion. I stream, download, play CD, LP, XM, AM, FM, and cassette if the need arises.

I'm not looking to lock horns on this. Just sharing my perspective.

[Scott Dolan]

Vastly different? Of course not. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

That said, I don't miss the days of adware, malware, worms, viruses, etc...

That is the major difference, and it's a huge one for this daily user. And the integration across the Apple ecosystem is pretty sweet, though not necessarily a deal maker/breaker between the two major operating systems.

In the end, my overall point is that if you don't like one, use the other and don't talk trash about something you're completely unfamiliar with.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Ligeti]

We have to accept that there are people out there who just can't handle a PC. So they get viruses, malware, and unstable OS's. On the other hand if you're not opposed to actually learning something about the OS, and you install the necessary tools, you can live a trouble-free life on a Windows PC if that's your thing. My PC is a Windows 7 install - and it's never turned off. It runs great. But I'm not someone who clicks on links sent anonymously via email, or go to websites without adequate protection. Others can't resist. I also don't upgrade the OS unless there is a compelling reason to do so - which is strangely not what many people do these days, they install new OS's as though it's an email client.

Apple and Microsoft took different paths. Microsoft, at the hardware level, is open. Anyone, anywhere can make parts, write drivers, etc. If you just look at motherboards alone there are dozens of different makers. Apple on the hand have a closed system. Their so-called stability comes from having complete control over the base hardware, The downside of this is pricing - Apple costs more because initially they were more expensive to make - the higher pricing seems to have stuck now though - since Apple machines aren't much different from a PC build at this point. There's also a certain lack of flexibility (Apple actually did try to let third-party vendors build their own versions of Apple computers a decade or so back, but it all ended rather badly.)

Of course, the differences between Apple and a Windows box is much smaller now. Apple never used to be an Intel shop, fo9r example - but they jumped on it eventually. They also had OS's that had a more Unix-centric source, which has now changed.

It's all a matter of taste. A PC can be every bit as stable as an Apple - you just have to configure it properly, and install the necessary safeguards (Anti-virus/Malware - which you can get for free of pay for premium services, plug-in's for your browser that restrict scripting on web pages, and alerts to click-thru dangers (all free)).

I have no issue with whatever someone uses. At the end of the day the OS is less important than the use we put these machines too. A lot of myths build up about Apple and Microsoft both. For Apple there's the idea you're not affected by viruses and malware, but anyone who follows such things know that's false. For Microsoft based OS's there's the myth that you have to constantly reboot it, that you get viruses every five minutes. Again, not true - not if you pay attention.

Again though - I sincerely don't think it matters. If someone is intimidated by Windows and are scared off by the horror stories - well an Apple computer will do the job.

I also find it highly disingenuous when somebody claims to avoid a company for ethical reasons, yet continually blasts their products and their users. If you choose not to use the wares of a company because you find them to be unethical, then you have NO idea what their wares are capable of.

For someone who seems to sit online for the sole purpose of lecturing others about how superior they are and posting acerbic respnses at every opportunity - you've yet to actually pull your head out of your ass long enough to smell the roses. I mean, you're not very good at debating, are you?

In order to make decisions, you get informed. You don't simply wake up one day and make a stance (which it looks like you've done just so you can can have more angst in your life). Still, trying to explain that to you is going to be an uphill task. For the record, IT matters, concerns, trends, have been part of my career for more than 25 years. I've written, and had published, books on various topics relating to technology. I've spoken at Security conferences in Las Vegas on four occasions (The MGM Grand is a fine place to hang). I was flown, literally, around the world to speak at conferences in Berlin, London, Sydney, and on both coasts in the US among others. I was a Director at a software development house which was eventually bought out by Symantec (they integrated our software into their core security suites). So while I may not know as much as you ( ), you'll perhaps give me credit for knowing where the ON/OFF button is, and forgive me for disagreeing with you.

Stop pretending you know anything about running a Windows PC - because obviously you didn't if you ran into so many problems. Caveat emptor. It's amazing you have time to write on this board at all, what with your spinning the same CD 100 times per. Lucky your last purchase wasn't a huge box set, you may not have left your basement for months if you had. That whistling sound you hear constantly isn't tinnitus, it's the steam leaking out of the hole where your brain should be.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ligeti

[Ligeti]

The real myth is that the two operating systems are vastly different. From the daily user's perspective, they are not. Highlighting features and benefits of either is just marketing.

Software applications cross platforms almost seemlessly at this stage.

Regardless, a consumer is not required to have a rational reason for choosing one product or service over another.

As for the streaming discussion, I don't have a strong opinion. I stream, download, play CD, LP, XM, AM, FM, and cassette if the need arises.

I'm not looking to lock horns on this. Just sharing my perspective.

You're spot on. There are as many reasons to use a PC as there are people using them. The OS shouldn't become entirely entrenched, because for the most part it's invisible. It's been true for more than 10 years that there is, in all practical senses, no difference between Apple and Windows. They do the same kind of things, and really who wants to worrying about the base OS anyway? it's what you do with it that matters. The idea that Windows is a buggy mess that is constantly infected with viruses and malware is silly. Tens of millions of people use Windows every single day - do you not think if the worst stories were true they'd have stopped by now? What's the rationale for them not changing - they didn't have the extra couple hundred for an Apple setup?

Fundamentally - from a user perspective, it shouldn't matter too much - that is the goal of an OS. Microsoft don't do everything right, for sure. An example is Internet Explorer. I can't stand it. I changed to Opera, and then on to Firefox due to the amount of good plug-ins and add-ons it supports. I've never been able to get IE to perform as well as Firefox. Oh well, doesn't matter, just download something else. My wife - not a computer junkie - only needs a tablet. My tablet is a Windows based install, her's Android. The Android suited her, because it's lightweight and had better (read: simpler) access to key configuration tools. She's far better with Android than I.

OS wars are a bit of madness really. Back in the day there was a real difference between them - but now? Not really, not in a practical sense.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Ligeti

[Scott Dolan]

A PC can be every bit as stable as an Apple - you just have to configure it properly, and install the necessary safeguards (Anti-virus/Malware - which you can get for free of pay for premium services, plug-in's for your browser that restrict scripting on web pages, and alerts to click-thru dangers (all free).

I rest my case!

[Ligeti]

That it? Shame.

[Scott Dolan]

As a former tweaker, over-clocker, and registry raider who knew his way all over and around the Windows OS, I'm not ashamed to say I now choose to spend more time with my family than babysit, tweak, and configure a problematic OS.

As someone who never received a single piece of e-mail spam due to being overly-cautious, and therefore had no nefarious links to click on, I find your snottery to be quite hilarious.

And as someone who grew to know better, I don't miss having to "configure properly" or "install the necessary safeguards" in order to have a functional and trouble free machine.

Nor am I completely misinformed, and base my opinions on such.

But hey, at least you finally learned the difference between MP3 and AAC.

Welcome to the 21st century, supposed IT guy!

Edited November 17, 2014 by Scott Dolan

[Ligeti]

You keep telling yourself that.

You're so easy - but then conceited people often are.

[David Ayers]

In an attempt tp get back on topic, I went to look for a Barry Guy title which I had listened to before on Spotify only to find that (most of) the Maya catalog has now been removed from that service.

Every label will make its own calculations, which is why I think that the question of payments will find its own level over time. I think the real risk is that streaming might falter.

Edited to add: after a more careful look it seems that only SOME of the Maya catalog has been taken down...

Edited November 18, 2014 by David Ayers

[BillF]

In an attempt tp get back on topic, I went to look for a Barry Guy title which I had listened to before on Spotify only to find that (most of) the Maya catalog has now been removed from that service.

Every label will make its own calculations, which is why I think that the question of payments will find its own level over time. I think the real risk is that streaming might falter.

It's swings and roundabouts with Spotify. Yes, albums do disappear, but if you look under an artist's name you may find a album which wasn't there before. Quite a different process from going to your CD/vinyl shelves. Takes a bit of getting used to, but makes for an active/living experience.

Edited November 19, 2014 by BillF

[Dave Garrett]

An interesting development that could have further ramifications:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/sirius-may-have-to-pay-up-for-pre-1972-songs-under-state-copyright/

[David Ayers]

An interesting development that could have further ramifications:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/sirius-may-have-to-pay-up-for-pre-1972-songs-under-state-copyright/

Interesting. I am guessing this won't go down. But interesting to see how it plays out.

[Scott Dolan]

David, which part don't you think will go down?

I have to admit that I'm shocked about the whole federal copyright thing not covering any material previous to 1972. That is something I was not familiar with. So who owns the IP? Is it essentially public domain?

[David Ayers]

I am only guessing. The judges' final comment seems to imply that hitherto sound recordings have been treated differently.

"Sirius suggests no reason why New York—a state traditionally protective of performers and performance rights—would treat sound recordings differently" than other public performance rights, McMahon wrote in her order.

So in part I wonder whether it is in practice late to set a precedent.

I am totally guessing of course. I also think that there are major interests tied up with this form of music distribution which will start to weigh in if it looks like still-fledgling businesses which they support are going to be bankrupted - which it seems would happen quickly if this copyright challenge stands.

[Neal Pomea]

See http://copyright.gov/docs/sound/

"Although sound recordings were first given federal copyright protection in 1972, sound recordings made before February 15, 1972 remained protected under state law rather than under the federal copyright statute. As a result, there are a variety of legal regimes governing protection of pre-1972 sound recordings in the various states, and the scope of protection and of exceptions and limitations to that protection is unclear. Current law provides that pre-1972 sound recordings may remain protected under state law until February 15, 2067. After that date they will enter the public domain."

[Scott Dolan]

Thanks, guys.

Very odd situation.

[Ligeti]

In an attempt tp get back on topic, I went to look for a Barry Guy title which I had listened to before on Spotify only to find that (most of) the Maya catalog has now been removed from that service.

Every label will make its own calculations, which is why I think that the question of payments will find its own level over time. I think the real risk is that streaming might falter.

Edited to add: after a more careful look it seems that only SOME of the Maya catalog has been taken down...

I think the issue here is that what's good for the label may not be best for the artist........ Also, it's a model that is once again okay for the Pop stars, but not good for more niche performers - like Jazz artists.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ligeti

[David Ayers]

In an attempt tp get back on topic, I went to look for a Barry Guy title which I had listened to before on Spotify only to find that (most of) the Maya catalog has now been removed from that service.

Every label will make its own calculations, which is why I think that the question of payments will find its own level over time. I think the real risk is that streaming might falter.

Edited to add: after a more careful look it seems that only SOME of the Maya catalog has been taken down...

I think the issue here is that what's good for the label may not be best for the artist........ Also, it's a model that is once again okay for the Pop stars, but not good for more niche performers - like Jazz artists.

In this case the artist owns the label.

[Daniel A]

Sometimes it seems as if some albums on Spotify come and go and then come again without an apparent reason. You might find that a few tracks on a certain album are unavailable in your country, but then discover they are available as part of a legit compilation album.

[Shawn]

Streaming catalogs (both music and movies) are in a constant state of flux, just because something gets added doesn't mean it will be there in 6 months, it may vanish for a while, then come back. Items are licensed for a specific period of time, once that time expires sometimes they get renewed, sometimes they don't.

I've been using Netflix streaming since 2009 and I've seen many films and TV shows get added, then get removed, then get re-added. It's all up to the whims of the content owners. The James Bond films have been added and removed so many times I've lost count, on for a few months, then off for a few months, then back again.

It's just the nature of the beast.

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, Netflix is really bad about the whole now you see it, now you don't thing. A lot of the ESPN 30 For 30 programs seem to come and go on a weekly basis.

And I watched the movie Melancholia show up and disappear at least twice over the past year.

[xybert]

Just a random thought that occured to me: i've always avoided thinking of myself as a 'collector', rather, i just listen to what i feel like listening to. I've never been a completist or a musicologist and i don't like to have something in my collection just because it is a classic or important recording. Having said that, i like having a CD collection and i guess i'm a collector by default. I enjoy adding to my collection. So how to reconcile this with the non-physical streaming world? I guess it could almost become like bird watching, where you keep a notebook or journal to keep a record of what you have streamed. You could note dates and how many times you've listened (some of you may already do this!). So, even though you're no longer adding to your collection, you still have a physical record in your hand of your aural adventures. I actually recall that i was doing this for a while with books that i was borrowing from the library, keeping a record of what i had read. Slightly took the edge off not having those trophies on my shelf. Anyway, just thinking aloud.

[BillF]

Just a random thought that occured to me: i've always avoided thinking of myself as a 'collector', rather, i just listen to what i feel like listening to. I've never been a completist or a musicologist and i don't like to have something in my collection just because it is a classic or important recording. Having said that, i like having a CD collection and i guess i'm a collector by default. I enjoy adding to my collection. So how to reconcile this with the non-physical streaming world? I guess it could almost become like bird watching, where you keep a notebook or journal to keep a record of what you have streamed. You could note dates and how many times you've listened (some of you may already do this!). So, even though you're no longer adding to your collection, you still have a physical record in your hand of your aural adventures. I actually recall that i was doing this for a while with books that i was borrowing from the library, keeping a record of what i had read. Slightly took the edge off not having those trophies on my shelf. Anyway, just thinking aloud.

I keep lists on the computer of albums I've found on Spotify that are worth listening to again. They're in alphabetical order of artist's surname and number about about 800 albums after almost two years' Spotify use. I add to them almost daily and delete the few which disappear from Spotify. It's intended as a guide to future listening, rather than a record of what's been listened to.

[Dave Garrett]

I guess it could almost become like bird watching, where you keep a notebook or journal to keep a record of what you have streamed. You could note dates and how many times you've listened (some of you may already do this!). So, even though you're no longer adding to your collection, you still have a physical record in your hand of your aural adventures. I actually recall that i was doing this for a while with books that i was borrowing from the library, keeping a record of what i had read.

Reading this, I was reminded of Art Garfunkel, who has kept a list of every book he's read since 1968:

http://www.artgarfunkel.com/library/list1.html