Beethoven Piano Sonatas

[J.A.W.]

Here are some very extensive reviews of several Beethoven piano sonatas cycles, including a few mentioned in this thread (Yves Nat, Friedrich Gulda). Have fun

So Hans, "Todd" is your screen name on that other Board?

Wish I had the resources to purchase and the time to listen to so many sets...

Really! I wonder if "Todd" ever listens to anything else?

As I know nothing about the Yves Nat set, I (quickly) read Todd's review and it's rather mixed. His review of the Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich set, which I've never heard either, is mainly negative, especially regarding the later recordings in the set - and so is the review of Jan de Kruijff, one of the foremost Dutch classical music journalists. The earliest (i.e. early 1990s) recordings in Kovacevich's set seem to be the best by far.

On the other hand, the latest Penguin Guide gives the complete Kovacevich set a rosette and says it's one of the best available, and an earlier edition gave his individual disc of 26 and 29 both a "key" AND a rosette and specifically said his Hammerklavier is one of the best ever recorded. So I guess it's just a matter of taste--or pride in a pianist now living in the UK.

Yes, I've read the Penguin Guide's recommendations, but I trust Jan de Kruijff's judgement more, after many (25+) years of reading his reviews and listening to him as a long-term member of a panel that reviews CDs on Dutch radio. On the other hand - like I said earlier - I've never heard Kovacevich's Beethoven interpretations, and I've just ordered his version of the Diabelli Variations, which seems to be one of his better efforts. We'll see.

[J.A.W.]

No one's answered the questions about the Richard Goode cycle yet - how is it? Never heard his Beethoven either.

Edited December 11, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Guest youmustbe]

The Manchester Guradian raves about Gilels Beethoven cycle. I have not heard his Beethoven although I'm looking for the vinyl of his Hammerklavier.

I should have mentioned before Beveridge Webster's Hammerklavier, which is as good as anyone's. Also, the live one by Webster Aitken.

Beveridge Webster is to me, one of the best, latter part of 20th Century pianists. His Weber, Schumann, Schubert, Carter, especially Ravel, are top notch. I haven't heard his Brahms, and I don't care for Stravinsky's, or Berg's, or Schoenberg's or Webern's piano music so I don't have those LPs, but I strongly recommend his Dover records Lps to anyone.

[Guest youmustbe]

Also, I've never gotten around to John Ogden's Hammerklavier. So many pianists, and that includes Bud and Ahmad, so little time!

I have Ogden's Messiaen's "Give My Regards To Jesus, Tell HIM I'm On My Way' on vinyl as well as his Tippett, concerto and 2nd piano sonata.

Steven Osborne, the young British pianist, who as encores to his recitals, Debussy, Ludwig, etc, plays his transcription of an Oscar Peterson solo and and his variations on Keith Jarret's Belonging, told me he is going to record the 4 Tippett piano sonatas. The recordings available now all suck, so I'm eager to Osborne's. The sonatas, especially since Tippett loved Jazz, are very interesting.

[J.A.W.]

Also, I've never gotten around to John Ogden's Hammerklavier. So many pianists, and that includes Bud and Ahmad, so little time!

I have Ogden's Messiaen's "Give My Regards To Jesus, Tell HIM I'm On My Way' on vinyl as well as his Tippett, concerto and 2nd piano sonata.

His name was John Ogdon, not Ogden.

[J.A.W.]

Also, I've never gotten around to John Ogden's Hammerklavier. So many pianists, and that includes Bud and Ahmad, so little time!

I have Ogden's Messiaen's "Give My Regards To Jesus, Tell HIM I'm On My Way' on vinyl as well as his Tippett, concerto and 2nd piano sonata.

His name was John Ogdon, not Ogden.

Wikipedia Ogdon bio

John Ogdon Foundation

Edited December 23, 2006 by J.A.W.

[Guest youmustbe]

Yup!

Also Ogdon has the best Stravinsky Capriccio, though it's terrible recorded.

[mandrill]

Schubert has more of what I find in Jazz, as great as Ludwig is, Franz is sexier, swings more....I can more easily go from a Schubert piano sonata, especially the latter ones, to Trane, than from Beethoven to a Jazz record.

Mozart is the schwingiest of them all. I can go from him to Sun Ra via Dave Brubeck in no time at all.

[mandrill]

To cure that "Mozart solo keyboard" sickness or Hammerklavier hangover immerse yourself into this set.

The music & the playing is as good as it gets.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Mandrill

[Guest youmustbe]

I never found Mozart's piano music 'Jazzy". It had a certain George Shearing quality, I admit, but the fleetness of the music to me does not represent 'swing'.

Most of Mozart's instrumental music is 'Lite'. 'Easy Listening'. I like a lot of it, how can one not, but to me it's in some of the operas, Don Giovanni, Cosi, Figaro, that he finds his true 'voice', no pun intended. (The opening bars of Cosi, when the guys start in with the old guy about women, or even better the trio at the beginning of Don, whew!)

[Guest youmustbe]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

[Guest youmustbe]

I always forget to mention Rudolf Serkin's Hammerklavier recording. His fugue is right on the money. I seem to remember, I might be wrong, that he said he didn't want to record it until he could do it in one take, whether the whole piece or individual movements, I don't remember.

Peter Serkin's recording on the piano forte is interesting too, I just don't like his music making for some reason.

[Peter Friedman]

The negative comments about Mozart's piano music are strange in my opinion. It is easy to miss the depth in Mozart, but to my ears there is tremendous depth to be found there. Certainly, given the quantity of music he produced for a variety of purposes, some of his compositions are on the lighter side.

However, I just listened to a fine recorded performance of Mozart's Piano Trio in E, K 542, and it is (in my view) a sparkling lovely piece that is full of musical substance.

[7/4]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

lower.

[J.A.W.]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

lower.

Wikipedia article about pitch

[mikeweil]

Of course, who knows what Mozart really sounds like? The instruments were different in his time, the venues were smaller and acoustically different, and I suppose the pitch, concert A, was probably different, whether lower or higher, I don't know.

Recent research by Siegbert Rampe and Robert Levin shows it varied widely depending on the acoustics and other circumstances. E.g., Mozart played his own late piano concertos on harpsichord when the performance room and the orchestra were to loud for the fortepianos of his time. But basically you're correct.

Maybe we got him all wrong. Maybe his music is not as 'Cute' as it has been made out to be.

If played on period instruments I find it always sounds a lot less sweet and cute - the modern piano sound and tuning take away a lot of the shades. Christopher Hogwood's latest Mozart recital on clavichord (DHM/BMG) is a stunning example - some harmonies sound very advanced on that instrument.

Edited January 1, 2007 by mikeweil

[Larry Kart]

MOZART = DEATH BY CUTENESS

c

I think I know what you mean, but that's not his fault --it's the performers' and the listeners' (some of them, in both cases). And "Don Giovanni," Der Zauberflute," and Cosi Fan Tutti" are cute? The mature string quintets? The K. 361 Wind Serenade? The K. 526 Piano-Violin Sonata? Etc, etc. Come on.

[Larry Kart]

About the operas, as with many other standard rep works, I have older LP versions that satisfy or interest me sufficiently: E. Kleiber, Leinsdorf, and C. Davis in "Figaro," C. Davis and Klemperer in "Don Giovanni," Jochum and Leinsdorf in "Cosi," though I do have Gardiner's "Clemenza" (on CD). It feels funny BTW to identify two of those as Leinsdorf's; it's the singers more than the conductor that make those sets work, while the conductors' contributions are at least as vital on the other sets. My only Requiem is C. Davis'.

[Larry Kart]

And K. Bohm's "Zauberflote."

[Larry Kart]

I got few classical pals, none who lives closer than Whitehall, Michigan (I live in the Chicago area), and I don't think Mr. Nessa is an HIP fan. I do, however, like Harnoncourt's "Poppea" and think that an HIP approach to Charpentier, Rameau, DeLalande et al. is close to essential, not that it's any guarantee. For the big Bach works, I like E. Jochum -- so shoot me.

[jazz1]

His name was John Ogdon, not Ogden.

[Late]

Another Beethoven Sonatas bargain heads-up:

Schnabel's Complete Beethoven Sonatas (on 8 discs) on the Classica d'Oro label can be had for $27.92 here. I don't know what the transfers are like (as I haven't heard this version), but I thought I'd let people here at least know about it.

Orders of $50 or more (while only for U.S. residents) ship for free.

[Late]

Oh yeah — while you're there (at the Allegro site), pick up the 2-disc set of early Segovia on Classica d'Oro. $7.99!

[randyhersom]

I'm sure I've said this elsewhere, but hear Schnabel on the first movement of the Hammerklavier. Thunderous force, makes other interpretations seem careful and delicate by comparison.

Three of four 2 cd volumes of the Schnabel cycle are on emusic, but the Classica d'Oro is still tempting.

[mtodde]

I love the Rubenstein RCA Living Stereo. The hybrid SACD sounds wonderful and can be had for $12 at most Border's.