Barry Guy, LJCO, New Orchestra etc etc etc

[king ubu]

Just hearing the guys warm up ... tuba from backstage since half an hour. A baritone sax is on stage (not Koch's).

But Watts was never planned to be part of tonight's event, I think.

[mjazzg]

Just hearing the guys warm up ... tuba from backstage since half an hour. A baritone sax is on stage (not Koch's).

But Watts was never planned to be part of tonight's event, I think.

Baritone is Per Texas Johannsonn. Or it was in London

enjoy!

[king ubu]

Uhm yes, just went to check the announcement, he IS listed ... guess he won't be here then, either. I shall know soon.

Just hearing the guys warm up ... tuba from backstage since half an hour. A baritone sax is on stage (not Koch's).

But Watts was never planned to be part of tonight's event, I think.

Baritone is Per Texas Johannsonn. Or it was in London

enjoy! So says the programme, indeed. Other than that and the addition of Homburger, sami line up D.D. and me caught here ten years (I think) ago. Watts wasn't with them then, Mats G on bari.

[Steve Reynolds]

Embrace the majesty, Ubu!!!!!

[Leeway]

I'm still intrigued to know the source of the Watts 'alleged'hissy fit. As I'd a ticket I'd not looked at the Oto website in days so hadn't seen any announcement but was told by a fellow audience member he was unavailable, no reason was circulating on the night that I heard.

I can imagine there's many different reasons why Gustaffson wasn't available - hell, he travels so much I'm surprised he's the energy to fulfil half the commitments he does. I'm not worrying about Tarfala yet, Steve

Facebook. I am FB 'friends' with Watts.

He was VERY public about this.

Clifford, can you provide a link. Checking the FB pages, I'm not seeing anything. Taken down?

FWIW he clarified that his beef was with Café Oto, not Barry Guy or Maya Homburger.

*shoulder shrug*

It's Barry Guy's show, he can call the shots. I'm sure Guy could tell the Oto folks: "Take Trevor's bio, if it's too long asked him nicely to edit it a bit." I'd be disappointed if Guy knew of the problem and did not step in to resolve it. Or are the folks at Oto now playing hardball?

[mjazzg]

Can't imagine Oto folks ever playing hardball. they don't need to and they have always been the most amenable in communications I've had with them.

Sounds like Trevor Watts just decided to make his stand - fair enough but it does seem to say 'prima donna' a little bit

I'm not sure Guy should have to step in - he's probably spent weeks organising the residency and then one of many internationally renowned musicians makes a stand, why should he spend extra effort massaging an ego?

sadly the proof was in the music on the night - Trevor Watts wasn't missed one iota. His decision to pull out, I hope the face he feels he's saved was worth it. The Barry Guy New Orchestra proved they're were bigger than one musician - that's not a criticism of Watts' stance just the truth as I heard it

Are we making too much ofthis? Just wondering.....

Edited May 23, 2014 by mjazzg

[Leeway]

We (me?) probably are. Maybe. But these are people who mean a lot to us in our little world, and so when something like this miscarries, naturally we'd like to understand why. To withdraw from this kind of event is fairly serious business. No explanation given, and the notice seemed curt.

"Massage egos" - isn't that what band leaders do? Coax them or punch them in the nose, depending on one's style, but the idea is to keep people invested in the band. To let Trevor and Mats walk away--I would think something could or should have been done.

If Trevor's absence was not missed, then maybe he should not have been invited in the first place, since it seems his contribution would have been negligible. But if you value band members, you want them there.

I'm not ready to say Trevor or Mats is a diva until we (I?) understand what took place. It could be that when two guys known for their musicianship and wide range of professional activities walk away, the blame might be elsewhere.

[king ubu]

No - they had a *great* replacement for Watts .... apples and oranges, the new guy, Zurich-based Jürg Wickihalder did a terrific job tonight, playing some "lead alto" stuff several times that would have made the best big band proud!

As for Mats, seems he opted out long ago, in the printed programme for tonight, sent out at least a month ago, it says Per Texas Johansson was on baritone - as was the case, but alas his baritone was rarely heard, but he played some amazing clarinet!

But from the beginning: hellyeah embrace that music I did and do! Ten years ago, I heard the band do "Oort-Entropy" (a few days before they went into the studio to record) - 50 minutes of extremely dense and intense sounds, most impressive ... in a way that neither the radio broadcast of the very same concert nor the CD could ever be - the physical dimension of it was such an integral part of the whole and is not reproducable on tape.

Tonight, we got the whole BGNO revue (no dwarfs, three-armed guys and bearded women and knife-throwers though ... guess the demons from Saturn last night did that part, and the horrific singer added hers) ... the schedule, roughly:

SET 1:

Paul Lytton (d) & Agusti Fernandez (p)

Agusti Fernandez (p) & Evan Parker (ss)

Evan Parker (ss) & Hans Koch (bcl)

these three were kinda morphing into each other, the new guy would show up a bit early making it a trio for a few moments ... took them a while to build momentum, but the Parker/Koch duo was great

"Celebration" - Maya Homburger (v) & Barry Guy (b)

she had sheet music while he was improvising around her parts ... good

Jürg Wickihalder (ss) & Per Texas Johansson (cl)

this was easily the most beautiful part of the first set ... amazing playing by Johansson and more than solid, Lacy-influenced soprano by Wickihalder ... the sonics they created weren't that different from Parker/Koch, but the whole thing felt very different ... more varied yet more rooted, very lyrical yet extremely vivid.

Herb Robertson (t), Johannes Bauer (tb), Per-Ake Holmlander (tuba), Raymond Strid (d)

a study in contrasts regaring the drums ... and actually the only time Strid really laid it on for more than just a few seconds ... but this wasn't exactly ma favourite part, Robertson always must got that loud way eventually, killing all the whimsical stuff he's just done, with mutes and all ... I love when he does that puck-ish stuff, but when he opens up and blows hard, he's like Randy Brecker's weirdo brother, both hide a compressor under their jackets, I'm sure.

Evan Parker (ts), Barry Guy (b), Paul Lytton (d)

WHAM! They got into it as if they just had to pull a switch, very intense from the beginning ... a lenghty set, and pretty effin' great! Evan on tenor ... he's the man! His sound is wonderful, his lines of endless imagination, and his execution is amazing (I guess John Butcher is the other guy I found similarly impressive, all things considered). And hey, they might lack blues, but they swing like hell (that is if you're not as narrow-minded as some of those jazz police f*scists)

This most varied first set was close probably around 75-80 minutes long.

Set 2

Barrry Guy New Orchestra: all of the above, Wickihalder on alto, Parker on soprano and tenor, Johansson on baritone and clarinet, Koch sticking to bass clarinet (he didn't have any other horns with him)

"Amphi" - feat. Maya Homburger

very interesting music, rather spare, the orchestra actually framing Homburger's violin in varying textures ... I felt it was a bit, subdued though.

"Radio Rondo" - feat. Agusti Fernandez (and Homburger out here, she's not really a part of the New Orchestra anyway, I understand)

this now, this was IT! da shiznits and all that ... wow! A wall of sound, half an hour or so of most intense music, revolving around the piano part of Fernandez, expertly played, Lisztian maybe? Both here and in "Amphi", Wickihalder did an excellent job (he must have had his parts to rehearse a few days in advance, I guess? ... amazing how he pulled it off!) .... and here, the music was really on fire, a physical assault really that went way beyond the ears, it had me literally on the edge of the chair. Yet in all its density, you could detect each and every single voice - surely no small feat on the side of the sound engineers either, but I assume to get there, you need musicians who can pull this off - play like madmen in hell under fire from the red baron, yet still musical to the last fibre.

Great night!

(edited by mistake - no changes made)

Edited May 23, 2014 by king ubu

[Leeway]

Thanks Ubu for that vivid description. Obviously a great show. Maybe they can do that in New York some day

[king ubu]

Btw, one result of tonight: I made peace with the "wrong" Bauer, finally ... last time with the New Orchestra, considered him the weakest link (I now think unfairly, maybe), when I saw him with some rough free jazz quartet I thought he was mad and his erratic behaviour put me off ... but tonight, while behaving as odd as always, he played some wonderful stuff - beautiful sound! Not like his brother (whom I've always loved, saw them on stage together once, a great set by Doppelmoppel, so far the best J. Bauer I'd heard) with all that richness, J. Bauer sitll remains rought by comparison (and rhythmically limited in an odd way, almost as if he's playing some marching band stuff or something), but he had several parts and moments tonight were his tone softened and got a velvety beauty and smoothness at very low volume ... loved that!

Could have done with more Barry Guy bass playing though ... that was the one thing I really missed a bit.

And more Johansson clarinet, just because that guy seems to be amazing on the instrument - anybody knows of any worthwhile recorded examples of that?

[Steve Reynolds]

No - they had a *great* replacement for Watts .... apples and oranges, the new guy, Zurich-based Jürg Wickihalder did a terrific job tonight, playing some "lead alto" stuff several times that would have made the best big band proud!

As for Mats, seems he opted out long ago, in the printed programme for tonight, sent out at least a month ago, it says Per Texas Johansson was on baritone - as was the case, but alas his baritone was rarely heard, but he played some amazing clarinet!

But from the beginning: hellyeah embrace that music I did and do! Ten years ago, I heard the band do "Oort-Entropy" (a few days before they went into the studio to record) - 50 minutes of extremely dense and intense sounds, most impressive ... in a way that neither the radio broadcast of the very same concert nor the CD could ever be - the physical dimension of it was such an integral part of the whole and is not reproducable on tape.

Tonight, we got the whole BGNO revue (no dwarfs, three-armed guys and bearded women and knife-throwers though ... guess the demons from Saturn last night did that part, and the horrific singer added hers) ... the schedule, roughly:

SET 1:

Paul Lytton (d) & Agusti Fernandez (p)

Agusti Fernandez (p) & Evan Parker (ss)

Evan Parker (ss) & Hans Koch (bcl)

these three were kinda morphing into each other, the new guy would show up a bit early making it a trio for a few moments ... took them a while to build momentum, but the Parker/Koch duo was great

"Celebration" - Maya Homburger (v) & Barry Guy (b)

she had sheet music while he was improvising around her parts ... good

Jürg Wickihalder (ss) & Per Texas Johansson (cl)

this was easily the most beautiful part of the first set ... amazing playing by Johansson and more than solid, Lacy-influenced soprano by Wickihalder ... the sonics they created weren't that different from Parker/Koch, but the whole thing felt very different ... more varied yet more rooted, very lyrical yet extremely vivid.

Herb Robertson (t), Johannes Bauer (tb), Per-Ake Holmlander (tuba), Raymond Strid (d)

a study in contrasts regaring the drums ... and actually the only time Strid really laid it on for more than just a few seconds ... but this wasn't exactly ma favourite part, Robertson always must got that loud way eventually, killing all the whimsical stuff he's just done, with mutes and all ... I love when he does that puck-ish stuff, but when he opens up and blows hard, he's like Randy Brecker's weirdo brother, both hide a compressor under their jackets, I'm sure.

Evan Parker (ts), Barry Guy (b), Paul Lytton (d)

WHAM! They got into it as if they just had to pull a switch, very intense from the beginning ... a lenghty set, and pretty effin' great! Evan on tenor ... he's the man! His sound is wonderful, his lines of endless imagination, and his execution is amazing (I guess John Butcher is the other guy I found similarly impressive, all things considered). And hey, they might lack blues, but they swing like hell (that is if you're not as narrow-minded as some of those jazz police f*scists)

This most varied first set was close probably around 75-80 minutes long.

Set 2

Barrry Guy New Orchestra: all of the above, Wickihalder on alto, Parker on soprano and tenor, Johansson on baritone and clarinet, Koch sticking to bass clarinet (he didn't have any other horns with him)

"Amphi" - feat. Maya Homburger

very interesting music, rather spare, the orchestra actually framing Homburger's violin in varying textures ... I felt it was a bit, subdued though.

"Radio Rondo" - feat. Agusti Fernandez (and Homburger out here, she's not really a part of the New Orchestra anyway, I understand)

this now, this was IT! da shiznits and all that ... wow! A wall of sound, half an hour or so of most intense music, revolving around the piano part of Fernandez, expertly played, Lisztian maybe? Both here and in "Amphi", Wickihalder did an excellent job (he must have had his parts to rehearse a few days in advance, I guess? ... amazing how he pulled it off!) .... and here, the music was really on fire, a physical assault really that went way beyond the ears, it had me literally on the edge of the chair. Yet in all its density, you could detect each and every single voice - surely no small feat on the side of the sound engineers either, but I assume to get there, you need musicians who can pull this off - play like madmen in hell under fire from the red baron, yet still musical to the last fibre.

Great night!

(edited by mistake - no changes made)

I can almost feel it, Ubu

GIANTS walk this earth, indeed

[colinmce]

Sounds great. Hopefully Oto will release some of that residency.

[mjazzg]

And more Johansson clarinet, just because that guy seems to be amazing on the instrument - anybody knows of any worthwhile recorded examples of that?

Johansson was a star at Oto too. I was also as impressed with Wickihalder's alto as you were.

The Parker/Lytton/Guy trio burned bright in London as well

Interesting to see the mix of solos, trios, quartets being similar but with different personnel

If I could write about music as clearly as you Ubu i'd post my review but I'll leave it to you....

We (me?) probably are.

Absolutely meant the collective 'we' no individual target, at all. It was just a throwaway that reflected a thought that we'll probably never know what actually transpired in detail.

I'm now guilty of refocussing the thread again....oops....(and if my emoticons hadn't mysteriously been disabled apparently by dling Firefiox there'd be a big smiley here now)

Edited May 24, 2014 by mjazzg

[king ubu]

Sorry about all the typos in my write-up ... two long office days followed by four-hour concerts do take their toll, but I wanted to write it down while I still remembered everything regarding line-ups and sequence etc.

Btw I've so far not been pulled to anything Wickihalder did - not even sure where I actually did hear him, but he left little impression. That changed with last night's concert! He must be on some Intakt releases by Irene Schweizer, I'm quite sure. (They were selling their stuff again, as usual almost for twice as much as internationally ... I don't feel like confronting the guy running the label since I really think he does a great job, but it's ridiculous that I have to buy these discs from Italy or Germany or France or even from the US in order to get them for sane prices.)

[Leeway]

We (me?) probably are.

Absolutely meant the collective 'we' no individual target, at all. It was just a throwaway that reflected a thought that we'll probably never know what actually transpired in detail.

I'm now guilty of refocussing the thread again....oops....(and if my emoticons hadn't mysteriously been disabled apparently by dling Firefiox there'd be a big smiley here now)

Thanks for the explanation, I'll supply the emoticon

Sorry about all the typos in my write-up ... two long office days followed by four-hour concerts do take their toll, but I wanted to write it down while I still remembered everything regarding line-ups and sequence etc.

Btw I've so far not been pulled to anything Wickihalder did - not even sure where I actually did hear him, but he left little impression. That changed with last night's concert! He must be on some Intakt releases by Irene Schweizer, I'm quite sure. (They were selling their stuff again, as usual almost for twice as much as internationally ... I don't feel like confronting the guy running the label since I really think he does a great job, but it's ridiculous that I have to buy these discs from Italy or Germany or France or even from the US in order to get them for sane prices.)

Intakts are $20 here--when you can get them. I seem to have no luck with the Maya stuff usually; very fleeting availability here (at least that's my experience).

[king ubu]

They're almost the equivalent of 40$ here! Which is regular high-price Swiss CD price, but that's just crazy and it's their own fault if by maintaining that the stores close ... there was even some lawsuit against syndicates (local IFPI forcing shops to keep the prices up) but nothing changed, even though there were hopes. Too late anyway, in Zurich the best stores regarding jazz have all shut down.

[mjazzg]

I seem to have no luck with the Maya stuff usually; very fleeting availability here (at least that's my experience).

Have you tried ordering direct from Guy/Homburger through their website? Very friendly and efficient service but I can't speak to the $ cost not overly cheap in £

Intakts are $25+ here in the UK unless you catch them early at Amazon where a bargain can be found

Ubu - I looked up Wichihalder after the gig and yes, there's a quartet with Schweizer which I think I'll investigate

http://www.discogs.com/artist/2444390-Jürg-Wickihalder-European-Quartet

Edited May 24, 2014 by mjazzg

[colinmce]

The prices through Maya are the highest-- $40 for doubles.

Maya titles run closer to $20 through Amazon-affiliated sellers.

[king ubu]

Ubu - I looked up Wichihalder after the gig and yes, there's a quartet with Schweizer which I think I'll investigate

http://www.discogs.com/artist/2444390-Jürg-Wickihalder-European-Quartet

Yep, I must have seen that one in stores ... he's also on the great Root Down discs by Tommi Meier (two out on Intakt), though I wouldn't know if he can be heard in solo there.

[Late]

This thread has some good reading. Just noticed this one today:

Sound samples here. Looks like one to put on the list. 5 CDs.

[Late]

More information here.

[T.D.]

After long fence-sitting I finally ordered the Krakow 2020 box. 

This has two discs of larger ensemble pieces, which I really like, versus one for the Krakow 2018 set. Might still consider the latter at some point. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by T.D.